Sign in to follow this  
ICTFC

Significant Milestone for ICTFC as Tulloch Agrees Transfer of Stadium Lease

Recommended Posts

Inverness Caledonian Thistle has received the good news that Tulloch Homes have agreed to return the lease of the stadium and North and South stands to the ownership of the club and at the same time have allowed access to the adjacent car parks for the foreseeable future.

http://ictfc.com/news/club-news/2082-significant-milestone-for-ictfc-as-tulloch-agrees-transfer-of-stadium-lease

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Access for 3 years minimum then What? Tulloch apply for planning permission.  It's also nice to note that  they are keeping control of the car parks and still charging us 15k a year for the privilege. Plus the 3.6 million they helped us out with they have made back about 2.5 million in rent from us so not exactly the heroes everyone is making them out to be. 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
  • Disagree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does seem that Tullochs have extracted some money from the club in return for what they have given it, but nevertheless this latest statement sounds more positive than we could reasonably have hoped for. I have to be the first to admit that I am clueless about business wheeling and dealing but this does sound as though this offers the stability required to allow for new investment and for taking the club forward once again. 

  • Agree 3
  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MorayJaggie said:

Access for 3 years minimum then What? Tulloch apply for planning permission.  It's also nice to note that  they are keeping control of the car parks and still charging us 15k a year for the privilege. Plus the 3.6 million they helped us out with they have made back about 2.5 million in rent from us so not exactly the heroes everyone is making them out to be. 

MJ.... have you ever considered the alternative to the Tulloch involvement? What would you propose should have been done instead, if the Tulloch deal really was that awful? It strikes me that you are complaining about your free lunch, to which the alternative was starvation, because someone has asked you to wash the plates.

  • Thanks 1
  • Agree 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the AGM it was generally agreed that Tulloch had provided in the region of £6,500,000 of "value" to the club over the years (not including any interest).  I've not done the exact sums, but it was surmised that they had received approx £2,000,000 in rental income over the years....there's also been £300k of rent arrears written off and no rental for the past 12 months.  That gives a net position of about £5,000,000 that Tullochs "paid" for the stadium & leases since 2001.

The gift that has just been provided means the club will save 76 years worth of rent at £205,000 plus they asset has been valued at £2,300,000....total £17,880,000.  Club will have £30k rent to pay per year (£15k to Common Good Fund & £15k for Car Parks)....over 76 years (and on the assumption we may have the car parks that long or need to pay for an alternative at similar rate if they are developed) that's a £2,280,000......the net "gift" value comes out at £15,600,000....on top of the £5,000,000 net investment by Tullochs from the last paragraph.

Whichever way you want to cut it....that's £20,000,000 to the good for ICTFC....and I fail to see how anyone can continue to paint Tulloch as the bad guys.

Some of you have been around this forum long enough to know that I did a lot of digging and questioning over the whole stadium ownership/lease deals for a number of years because I wanted to ensure that the debt would never come back to haunt the club.  You may also recall that I made a statement (it may still be on this forum somewhere) that whilst I could not share information that I had been shown in confidence, I was happy to stick my neck out and state that the club's interests were being looked after and that the debt would not come back to haunt us.

So this is as huge for me personally as it is for the club because a lot of people have questioned my credibility over the years as a result of that.

Finally (for now at least...lol)....the work to bring the stadium ownership back to the club was started a long time ago and the offer was made public 12 months ago....so whilst the current board may have been the ones to finally sign off on it, credit has to be given to the previous Chairman and Board as they are actually the ones that made it even remotely likely or possible.

  • Thanks 6
  • Agree 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

MJ.... have you ever considered the alternative to the Tulloch involvement? What would you propose should have been done instead, if the Tulloch deal really was that awful? It strikes me that you are complaining about your free lunch, to which the alternative was starvation, because someone has asked you to wash the plates.

Moray Jaggie, please don't run for Chairman!!!  

Stick to eating your 'cream rings' and being a ball boy at Burghead Thistle.:whoosh:

Edited by Caman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, CaleyD said:

From the AGM it was generally agreed that Tulloch had provided in the region of £6,500,000 of "value" to the club over the years (not including any interest).  I've not done the exact sums, but it was surmised that they had received approx £2,000,000 in rental income over the years....there's also been £300k of rent arrears written off and no rental for the past 12 months.  That gives a net position of about £5,000,000 that Tullochs "paid" for the stadium & leases since 2001.

The gift that has just been provided means the club will save 76 years worth of rent at £205,000 plus they asset has been valued at £2,300,000....total £17,880,000.  Club will have £30k rent to pay per year (£15k to Common Good Fund & £15k for Car Parks)....over 76 years (and on the assumption we may have the car parks that long or need to pay for an alternative at similar rate if they are developed) that's a £2,280,000......the net "gift" value comes out at £15,600,000....on top of the £5,000,000 net investment by Tullochs from the last paragraph.

Whichever way you want to cut it....that's £20,000,000 to the good for ICTFC....and I fail to see how anyone can continue to paint Tulloch as the bad guys.

Some of you have been around this forum long enough to know that I did a lot of digging and questioning over the whole stadium ownership/lease deals for a number of years because I wanted to ensure that the debt would never come back to haunt the club.  You may also recall that I made a statement (it may still be on this forum somewhere) that whilst I could not share information that I had been shown in confidence, I was happy to stick my neck out and state that the club's interests were being looked after and that the debt would not come back to haunt us.

So this is as huge for me personally as it is for the club because a lot of people have questioned my credibility over the years as a result of that.

Finally (for now at least...lol)....the work to bring the stadium ownership back to the club was started a long time ago and the offer was made public 12 months ago....so whilst the current board may have been the ones to finally sign off on it, credit has to be given to the previous Chairman and Board as they are actually the ones that made it even remotely likely or possible.

CaleyD. Thanks for that and well said. 

Fancy sorting out Brexit? :wave:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While its a positive bit of news, lets not forget that the stadium has been called the Tulloch Caledonian Stadium for 25 years - that's pretty good advertising especially in an age when other clubs are selling the stadium naming rights. Being associated at a level when the club ascended into the Premiership (including regular mentions on TV), National Cup finals and a trip into Europe - its not been bad exposure overall for Tulloch. 

  • Like 2
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

While its a positive bit of news, lets not forget that the stadium has been called the Tulloch Caledonian Stadium for 25 years - that's pretty good advertising especially in an age when other clubs are selling the stadium naming rights. Being associated at a level when the club ascended into the Premiership (including regular mentions on TV), National Cup finals and a trip into Europe - its not been bad exposure overall for Tulloch. 

You have a point, but they have paid for it I would say. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair that's probably one of the most informative statements the club has ever released, so hats off to the board for that. Up until now it's always appeared to be a bit smoke and mirrors as to how the club's debt vanished......now we know.

I'm intrigued now as to Tulloch's plans for development of the car parks?

Possibly a win-win situation for both Tulloch and ICT at the end of the day. The club now has a tangible valuable asset once again, and Tulloch look set to be financially rewarded with the future development of their car parks.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, bdu98196 said:

While its a positive bit of news, lets not forget that the stadium has been called the Tulloch Caledonian Stadium for 25 years - that's pretty good advertising especially in an age when other clubs are selling the stadium naming rights. Being associated at a level when the club ascended into the Premiership (including regular mentions on TV), National Cup finals and a trip into Europe - its not been bad exposure overall for Tulloch. 

not 25 years. The stadium was not renamed until around 2000/2001 - sure someone will confirm exact date ... and the deal asked for and granted at the AGM back then was for 5 years naming rights in return for a cash injection. I could be wrong, but I dont recall ever seeing a motion in the AGM agendas over the years to extend the naming rights for a further period so I am making a rather large assumption that no-one else has actually asked about investing enough cash to secure the ongoing naming rights and we simply kept calling it the TCS.

As Don has mentioned above, he did a real deep dive into the 'smoke and mirrors' of the vanishing debt and other things a few years back ... so deep that he ruffled a lot of feathers at the time and since. Anyone who knows Don, knows that he is like his avatar of the time which was a dog with a bone and he was not going to stop till he got to the bottom of things. He did get there in the end, and I also had things explained to me so I am confident that things were done for the right reasons. 

The accusation that Tullochs were only in this for Tullochs alone or that there is some nefarious plot to kill the club is bullshit in my opinion but let me track back a bit first. I have no doubt whatsoever that Tullochs were indeed in it for what they could get over the long term, especially given the local plan for this portion of the longman which is slowly taking shape in certain portions. I have posted that plan several times and I am sure it is available online, but if its still in force, even loosely then yes, there is money to be made by whomever holds lands or property in the area. DFS is an intelligent man, and an astute businessman, BUT the idea that the club cannot profit alongside Tulloch is short sighted. The plan actually calls for the stadium to be at the heart of this area and it was not envisaged without one. We have complained about the shi**y unpaved and hard to get in and out of car parks for decades ... would it really be an issue to lose them if there was a viable alternative provided nearby or within safe walking distance? The handing back of the stadium and the stands ensures we do have control over that crucial parcel of land and if there is more development, whether leisure based as per the plan, or commercial in the area in the coming years then that is going to increase footfall over the whole area and could mean more potential revenue for the club in terms of their own commercial offerings on both matchdays and non-matchdays.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, bdu98196 said:

While its a positive bit of news, lets not forget that the stadium has been called the Tulloch Caledonian Stadium for 25 years - that's pretty good advertising especially in an age when other clubs are selling the stadium naming rights. Being associated at a level when the club ascended into the Premiership (including regular mentions on TV), National Cup finals and a trip into Europe - its not been bad exposure overall for Tulloch. 

Or tullochs could have spent 10000 pounds advertising to each individual fan for same price.  New car per fan? Seems great value bdu...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Scotty said:

not 25 years. The stadium was not renamed until around 2000/2001 - sure someone will confirm exact date ... and the deal asked for and granted at the AGM back then was for 5 years naming rights in return for a cash injection. I could be wrong, but I dont recall ever seeing a motion in the AGM agendas over the years to extend the naming rights for a further period so I am making a rather large assumption that no-one else has actually asked about investing enough cash to secure the ongoing naming rights and we simply kept calling it the TCS.

Absolutely not 25 years Scotty. It's more like half of that since, as I recollect, the "Tulloch" tag appeared after the January 2005 upgrade to 6000 seats. I'm not sure about the originally agreed duration of this deal, but the 2001 deal for control of the board through "Tulloch" directors including the chair was originally for 5 years but in practice extended to 10 or maybe more. For instance DFS took over the chair in 2000, passed it for a time to Ken Mackie who then passed it back to DFS who held it until 2006. Then "non Tulloch" Alan Savage held it for less than two years 2006-08 before Tullochs' George Fraser had it until 2011. Apart from AS, these are "Tulloch" chairmen from 2000-2011, and thereafter you could debate whether Kenny (2011-17) was a "Tulloch" chairman or not.

In the case of the Tulloch-ICT association to date, I see the rough "balance sheet" for 2000- early 2018 (but this won't quite be exhaustive) as roughly reading:-

THE CLUB  HAS RECEIVED - around £2.5M of debt removed, £730,000 in working share capital, a stadium upgraded  by two new stands to SPL standards, the gift of everything within the stadium perimeter, the gift back (to the Trust in 2011) of 730,000 shares, the benefit of some very good chairmanship (for instance Ken Mackie was hugely influential in negotiating SPL status during that fraught summer of 2004),absolution over the years from part of the stadium rent and other odds and ends such as the random Tulloch employees who kept appearing to fill gaps at busy times.

TULLOCHS HAVE RECEIVED - control, since 2011, of Propco which owns the stadium and holds the lease, control of the Board for approaching 10 years (approx.), naming rights for the stadium for around 13 years, 730,000 shares (until given back in 2011), rent for the stadium and site, a lot of goodwill and positive publicity in the earlier years of the association and........

a whole lot of grief from people who either don't understand or decline to acknowledge that Tullochs have not only put a lot more into the club than they have taken out and that, were it not for their involvement, there is every likelihood that the club would have died in 2001.

Edited by Charles Bannerman
  • Thanks 1
  • Agree 4
  • Disagree 1
  • Facepalm 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given what we read above, nobody could deny that Tulloch have by and large been a lifesaver for ICT. Strikes me that the past Boards though have been guilty of secrecy which has raised the anti Tullochs feeling that existed amongst many fans. When you couple this with the fact that many of the decision makers have links to Tullochs then there was always going to be conspiracy theories. There should have been much more transparency especially to the shareholders. Good on Messrs Savage and McGillivrays for flushing the detail out.

Now let's all move on for the common good of the Club.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't think all the credit for this should go to the McGillivrays or Alan Savage as think the Chairman deserves some credit on this. Still think Messrs Savage and McGillivray need to provide more details on what involvement they want in the club. Never a good idea for a club to have a few powerful shareholders who can dictate what happens to the club.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Huisdean said:

 Never a good idea for a club to have a few powerful shareholders who can dictate what happens to the club.

Dougie needs to be given credit for stating at last night's AGM that his family holding of around half a million shares would never be used as anything more than a single hand up at a meeting. In other words he would not want to exert his pro-rata entitlement in a poll vote.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see someone on P&B said that McGillivray answered a few questions and then left the AGM in quite an abrupt manner.  Can anyone expand on this?

Edited by Renegade

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Delighted for all involved with ICTFC at this announcement.

I view it as great news and great business for the club and a major platform from which to continue our clubs history from.

In my mind, Tulloch have been an absolute God send, for want of a better term, for our club.

I admit, I was a little sceptical of Muirfield Mills and Rae  being at the helm initially, but their endeavours should be roundly and loudly applauded.

 

 

 

Edited by A Sofa In San Tropez
  • Facepalm 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Renegade said:

I see someone on P&B said that McGillivray answered a few questions and then left the AGM in quite an abrupt manner.  Can anyone expand on this?

Not true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Renegade said:

I see someone on P&B said that McGillivray answered a few questions and then left the AGM in quite an abrupt manner.  Can anyone expand on this?

Let`s move on -  and none more of this McGillivray or Savage bashing or trying to find out trash. 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forgive my ignorance on this, but what is the story with the main stand? The statement makes reference to the north and south stands being gifted back to the club and seems to imply at one point the whole stadium was owned by Tulloch (or Tulloch controlled groups) so does Tulloch still own the main stand or has the main stand always been with the club?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reference to the Stadium can be read as "Main Stand & Pitch" when mentioned alongside the North & South stands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Renegade said:

I see someone on P&B said that McGillivray answered a few questions and then left the AGM in quite an abrupt manner.  Can anyone expand on this?

That is absolutely not the case. Dougie ASKED a number of questions, more or less all relating to the status of the stadium and in doing so it was clear (if clarification was needed) that his problem is with Tulloch-Sutherland and not the club. He also stated that his family's 500,000 or so shares would never be used pro-rata in a poll vote and would only ever feature as one of a show of hands.

There was nothing heated about any of his interventions, nor indeed about the meeting as a whole. As for his departure, he advised the meeting that he had guests to meet so had to leave - and he did so on offering the club his very well received best wishes. There was no hint of acrimony at all.

My own belief now is that there is scope for bridges to be built (good term - Dougie began life in inverness as Project Manager on the Kessock Bridge!) between the McGilvrays at least and the club, and this should be encouraged. Let's not also forget that, despite criticism of the end of his 5 year chairmanship, he played a massive part in getting the club - including Pele -  there in the first place..... and even won the "£500 to a pie" on-air bet which I was able to arrange for him to make with Tam Cowan that ICT would be in the SPL within 10 years of formation!

Edited by Charles Bannerman
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.