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Inverness CT -V- Livingston

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14 minutes ago, Robert said:

Is that seven red cards now? Seedorf, Warren, Trafford, Vigurs, Raven, Tremarco and now Vigurs again?

Only half way through the season, but with 7 I think we might already have matched our highest tally of reds for a season?

Edited by Yngwie

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A lot of positive posting that reflects what was a decent performance and very unlucky not to see the game out. Livingston were only ever going to score from a set piece and never looked like creating anything. It is clear that the standard of refereeing in the championship is poor- can the players and management acknowledge this and agree to try and crack on regardless... Team spirit again there to see. Well done and good luck to David -the legend- Raven and his family. 

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55 minutes ago, jed5697 said:

A lot of positive posting that reflects what was a decent performance and very unlucky not to see the game out. Livingston were only ever going to score from a set piece and never looked like creating anything. It is clear that the standard of refereeing in the championship is poor- can the players and management acknowledge this and agree to try and crack on regardless... Team spirit again there to see. Well done and good luck to David -the legend- Raven and his family. 

Sums up what's been said above pretty well. 

There's no doubt that Vigurs being wrongly dismissed disrupted our shape. Then after 're-grouping' the injury to Chalmers was another blow. I thought we would have gone three at the back at that point with Raven and Calder pushing forward right and left. Unfortunately not the case and Trafford and Polworth then got over-run in midfield.

McKay and Austin also unlucky to find Neil Alexander in good form. I was also convinced the McKay header was over the line from where I sit in the North Stand. Austin also too honest when he stayed on his feet to ride at least two poor challenges on him in the box. Still, he looks an excellent signing. Play him up front with Oakley and Doran when we have 11 players on the park then we could have the potent strike-force we lacked in the first half of the season.

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Time and again the refs seem to have it in for ICT consistently . Is there  anyone amongst our fans that thinks that they may have been counselled to cut us down if it can be done by using  excuses concerning actions on the pitch.   In most matches that I have seen on video this season  ICT seems to be way ahead in terms of pure football than the other team. Their passing is excellent and had they had the breaks this season it seems to me that they could easily have been  at the top pf the table.

I was just reading about the possibility of bringing -in technology to deal with goalmouth incidents but a naysayer wept and stated that it would cost far too much for Scottish Football to put out  to install it!        Same old, same old.

Team players must  ride the punches though and be nice to the refs. No back-chatting, a smile now and then ,etc etc. Even telling him what a good decision he made of the last incident and if that doesn't get him onside then for goodness sake  just eat it all up and hope for the best.

I see one of the poorest refs in my personal view was Bobby Madden and lo and behold he has been given a poor rating by some judges in Scotland to date.

For Caley to make up the points now seems a real meaty task though and so, IMHO,   efforts must be made by all players not to foul dirty and so on. I'm waiting to hear and see Robbo's views on this match- which should be interesting.

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6 hours ago, Scarlet Pimple said:

Time and again the refs seem to have it in for ICT consistently . Is there  anyone amongst our fans that thinks that they may have been counselled to cut us down if it can be done by using  excuses concerning actions on the pitch.   In most matches that I have seen on video this season  ICT seems to be way ahead in terms of pure football than the other team. Their passing is excellent and had they had the breaks this season it seems to me that they could easily have been  at the top pf the table.

How ridiculous, that reads like the rantings of an OF fan. We were relegated last year not because of a few referring errors or decisions we disagree with but because consistently over the course of 38 games for the most part we were honking. This season we are where we are because the early part of the season we were even more honking and slowly picking up but with the mediocre players and general lack of any creative spark (demonstrated by our lack of gaols) we are probably where we deserve to be. Other than the odd additional point we should have collected, the facts are that 50% of our league wins have been against Brechin - that means out of the other 16 games against the 8 other teams we have only won 3 times - don't be fooled into conspiracy theories that we are being held back by the authorities - what's holding us back is not being good enough, which is a worrying indication of the Championship given that being this bad we still look realistic play-off contenders!!!

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Robbo sums it up there referees are unaccountable and nothing happens when they make a hash of it. Hence the standard of officiating in Scotland is poor. Further to that was on pie and bovril and the 30 livi fans that made it were moaning they had to sit in an uncovered section of our stand 🤔 but also they were delighted to take a point. Does that not show that teams actually are now starting to see us as a threat? If about 30 livi fans made it that's a good number of home fans from recent games today about 2200. Hopefully people are starting to seep back after relegation.

Edited by MorayJaggie
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1 hour ago, MorayJaggie said:

Robbo sums it up there referees are unaccountable and nothing happens when they make a hash of it. Hence the standard of officiating in Scotland is poor. Further to that was on pie and bovril and the 30 livi fans that made it were moaning they had to sit in an uncovered section of our stand 🤔 but also they were delighted to take a point. Does that not show that teams actually are now starting to see us as a threat? If about 30 livi fans made it that's a good number of home fans from recent games today about 2200. Hopefully people are starting to seep back after relegation.

The Livi fans were not in the uncovered section of the stand. They were sat in Lower F (albeit the roof does not provide much coverage to this).

Their seating was mixed in with Home fans which worked great(?) until they started gesturing when the scored and thereafter a few insults were thrown. I'm sure the couple of stewards in the area would have stopped trouble if it had kicked off (maybe...)

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I know they were sat there but they were adamant it was uncovered they must have been in the same frame of mind as the ref when their reality was distored due to the excessive amount of oxygen in the air away from the air in the central belt. Plus the two elderly stewards would have had no chance of stopping a fart in a paper bag much more than anything that happened between the fans. They were more concerned In accosting our fans for reactions to the livi fans. And when challenged by fans the stewards retreated down the stairs. Not a very good or safe set up. Needs to be looked at. 

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18 minutes ago, MorayJaggie said:

I know they were sat there but they were adamant it was uncovered they must have been in the same frame of mind as the ref when their reality was distored due to the excessive amount of oxygen in the air away from the air in the central belt. Plus the two elderly stewards would have had no chance of stopping a fart in a paper bag much more than anything that happened between the fans. They were more concerned In accosting our fans for reactions to the livi fans. And when challenged by fans the stewards retreated down the stairs. Not a very good or safe set up. Needs to be looked at. 

Agree. Appreciate that the club are looking at saving money by not opening the away stand but the approach of sitting away fans in among home fans (without some basic segregation) is not acceptable

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I went to the away game at Livingstone in November and both sets of fans used one turnstyle and we were all in one stand with very little segregation. There was no bother just some banter.

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22 minutes ago, weeman said:

I went to the away game at Livingstone in November and both sets of fans used one turnstyle and we were all in one stand with very little segregation. There was no bother just some banter.

Not the case yesterday

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Have to disagree with those posters who are blaming Vigurs for us not winning yesterday. There was no way he deserved to be sent off. His first booking may or may not have been justified, it was definitely not for mouthing off, but similar challenges were being put in throughout the game by both sides and no action taken by the referee which just highlights the inconsistency of the officials and the reason they get so much stick/abuse. If referees cannot understand that this is the one thing that really irritates fans, then they should not be refereeing. As for the sending off, Vigurs was simply just going for the ball. Sure, his foot was high but there was no malicious intent in that. The Livingston player went down as if he had been poleaxed by a punch from Mike Tyson but trust me, Vigurs did not catch the player at all with his boot. The other interesting thing about the sending off was that the referee had the cards out immediately, he took no time to assess the situation and appears to have already made up his mind to send off Vigurs.

The standard of refereeing is definitely declining in Scotland and referees simply seem unable to distinguish between genuine foul play and mistimed or genuine tackles. The treatment Oakley received yesterday from both the referee and standside linesman were perfect examples of this where he was constantly fouled so when he did, as any good certain forward would do, and start to dish out the same treatment, he was instantly penalised.

Ultimately we are drawing too many games which may cost us at the end of the season but there is certainly cause for optimism as there is a nucleus of a good team being created.

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Robbo said the referee informed him that he felt vigurs had no control and was aggressive it his high foot. Crap he was trying to stop the ball going out. A livi player did the same in the midfield as our player ran past him and caught him but our player stayed on his feet and not even a free kick. Plus if Vigurs, first yellow was for a shirt pull how did neither of the livi central defenders not recieve a yellow for all the times they tried to pull Oakleys shirt off through out the match.

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4 hours ago, Tree said:

Not the case yesterday

Agreed yesterday it was getting quite heated in that area and I believe this stems from the poor refereeing decisions.

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Well, reviewing the other posts on here,  I am NOT convinced that there is no bias against the upstarts who beat Celtic handily in the 2015 Scottish cup and  ran them off their feet in the process. Why, how dare they do such a thing to Scottish Fitba..eh?

In the videos I have been watching from 5,000 miles away, even with my long-range glasses on, I could NOT believe my eyes at how ridiculously wrong some of the decisions I have seen were--simply defying belief.  So that's being put down to general incompetence is it? Bring in video then for instant scrutiny when a manager questions what appears to be an obviously debatable call. In the north American National  (ice) Hockey League the speed of the game in incredible so when a debatable call is made and the "Manager's Challenge" is made the 3 referees immediately consult video from several cameras and no one ever seems to question the outcome , the refs there are usually very experienced  and very competent and also keep right up with the play.

The same situation also applies to goalmouth decisions..."the ball wuz over the line, the ball wisnae over the line" and so on. Just go electronic and that issue is resolved instanter to the satisfaction of both teams and their fans.

If the Scottish Football beaks just don't get it and won't step into the 21st century electronic age then you are condemned to still endure the often absolute  nonsense that I feel you are faced with. That's all I can say, The downside to that might be that many refs would be laughed out of court when their decisions were shown on  TV  as being what they are.  It's not so bad if the decisions apply to both teams evenly so that an even playing field results? If not then conspiracy theories are allowable as rational, reasonable and likely.

One thousand pounds a game , isn't that what they are getting in Scotland these days?    Whew!  Nice one Cyril, if you can get it?

O.K. IHE  back to the bush. The Moose mating season will be here in a few months and I'm hoping that that little cute little gal over there will come my way and pick me as her suitor. In the  Canadian wilderness the Moose boys are not allowed to pick their mate  only the gals. Yep,  it's a topsy turvy world we live in these days so I'm off to look in the lake to see if my tuft  is still looking good.

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seen a video of Dave the Raves parting speech. A sad say, really liked the guy very down to earth and had some cracking games for us in the past and of course i'll never forget that semi final goal. Time stood still at the moment and i'll never forget it. All the best to him in the future 

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2 hours ago, Belfast Brigade said:

seen a video of Dave the Raves parting speech. A sad say, really liked the guy very down to earth and had some cracking games for us in the past and of course i'll never forget that semi final goal. Time stood still at the moment and i'll never forget it. All the best to him in the future 

And so say all of us. Good luck for the future Dave.

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The referee has given vigurs the second yellow purley on the reaction of the livi player from the highlights there. As seconds before he Did the same boot up to control the ball flicks it behind him to create space, turns then does the same to hook it back, while in this process the livi player comes in from behind. Now the livi player goes down holding his face. I'm not a scientist but if vigurs foot at that point is near the players waistline is it possible it hit him in the face no simple physics dictate it couldn't. 

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1 hour ago, ICTFC said:
 

I know I will get a lot of red arrows, but I would agree with the Ref re Vigurs second yellow card. Robbo was wrong in saying Vigurs tried to hook the ball back in to play. His first with his left foot was a hook. The second with his left foot was with force. If it had been outwith the penalty box it may have been different. Given the amount of players in close contact of each other within the penalty box it is dangerous. The Ref got that one right. Any Referee watching that video would agree. 

High foot is term used when two players are in for a 50-50 ball and one of them raises his leg above waist. The real rule states "Playing in dangerous manner", which means any kind of swinging of leg which maybe seen or considered threatening will be given a foul.

 

Edited by Caman
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I can see why Vigurs got the yellow, although it was purely accidental and Vigurs must have made contact because he went over to apologise - the Livi player just put his head in where most don't. It was the first yellow that was either a shocking decision by the ref or daft from Vigurs (dissent).

Worst of all was the Livi player leading with his arm just before the sending off - not even given as a free kick. Definite yellow and possibly a red.

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 I would agree with you PerfiCT on it be purely accidental of Virgus for the first Yellow card.

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I wasn't at the game. Having now seen the highlights and re-run the Vigurs sending off incident umpteen times, freeze frame, slow-mo etc. I think I can say that:

 1. Clearly it was accidental by Vigurs; but

2. By the time, he had positioned himself to attempt the kick overhead, the Livi player had nipped in front of him and so, "ideal world stuff", Vigurs should probably have attempted to pull out of the challenge before connecting.

The ref doesn't have the benefit of endless video playback ... So, I can see how the yellow was given. As far as I understand, intent doesn't come into the decision unfortunately. However, brutal application of rules like this just ruins the game and regular ref. inconsistency in games breaks me.

All in all, the sending off seems very unlucky on Vigurs' part ... although one might say that, when on a yellow, he should have been extra careful to stay on the right side. (In that regard, I'd like to know if his first yellow before that was for being stupid i.e. dissent or silly foul).

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