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Bronson

Crowd v Crusaders

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Dunno about home crowds - there were several in 3 figures during the first season - but in Montecatini during the pre-season tour in 2006, I was in an away crowd of something like 12.😱

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I've been to a few under 1000 the first time we were in the first division. Arbroath on a Tuesday night springs to mind. 

Just checked that Arbroath game, it was actually over 1000. I did think there was a few around the 900 mark round about then though.

Edited by ICTPAISLEY

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This is what you get when you have the disastrous SFA in charge. They invented this tournament, for what purpose I'm not quite sure. Who is benefiting from it?  They don't promote it, they certainly don't care about the supporters or the clubs. Is it from TV money? There must be some reason they have for agreeing to play it on a sunday at stupid o'clock.  The late great Jock Stein was said 'football without supporters is nothing', and he is right. The atmosphere at the stadium on Sunday was terrible,  and only came alive when the handbags came out at the end of the game. I think we all know that the crowd would have been bigger had it not been on TV, but you can bet your bottom dollar that some of the '15,000 fans to Hampden', "the glory hunters", will be searching in their cupboards for their ICT scarfs and hats for the final, and then never seen again at the stadium.

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5 o'clock on a Sunday isn't really a big deal to the people of Inverness surely? I don't think we have the SFA to blame for this one, we hadn't even played a game in almost 3 weeks and we still couldn't get fans to go watch us! 

I personally like the challenge cup and don't see it as meaningless, especially when you get to the tail end of the competition.  A final is always going to attract fans that wouldn't usually go to the every day games, what is wrong with that? People have other commitments in life so pick and choose what games they go to.  I work nearly every Saturday so only get to see the team maybe 10 games a season these days.  The final will be a day I'll be making time for, if the semi had been over in Ireland I'd probably have went to that too. 

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7 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

This is what you get when you have the disastrous SFA in charge. They invented this tournament, for what purpose I'm not quite sure. Who is benefiting from it?  They don't promote it, they certainly don't care about the supporters or the clubs. Is it from TV money? There must be some reason they have for agreeing to play it on a sunday at stupid o'clock

It's nothing to do with the SFA. It's an SPFL tournament. It was invented as part of the centennial celebrations of the SFL to give lower division teams another trophy they could realistically hope to win. 

The revamp to include non Scottish teams was probably a good idea to regenerate interest, the decision to not join up the schedule with the schedule of the other domestic leagues was definitely not a good idea. 

Sadly, as soon as tv become involved, kick off times become bizarre, and people would rather watch the game in a warm, dry room with a beer, rather than a cold, wet, windy stadium that has probably run out of hot water before half time. 

Unforgivably, the people that run Scottish football are too willing to sell TV rights (and so give up control of fixture times) for a price that feels way too generous. 

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7 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

 I think we all know that the crowd would have been bigger had it not been on TV, but you can bet your bottom dollar that some of the '15,000 fans to Hampden', "the glory hunters", will be searching in their cupboards for their ICT scarfs and hats for the final, and then never seen again at the stadium.

We are not alone in this  if the Aberdeen, Hearts or Hibs fans that attended their recent cup finals turned up every week, they'd need much bigger stadiums  

Everyone wants to see their team when they are doing well, however notional the actual attachment to that team  

 

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It's unfair to tar the 15,000 as glory hunters, the two girls sitting next to me at the final travelled from Toronto and Paris both born and bred in Inverness, there were also neutrals who went along with their  Inverness family and friends for the occasion. It's up to the clubs to attract supporters by having an entertaining product on the pitch, it is after all an entertainment business. I can fish for a whole day for £20 why should I turn up as someone said at stupid o'clock at the whim of TV companies or the SFA. I remember the league cup final held at midday on a Sunday which I did not attend. Sky were in such a panic about their being no away support at the match, they got their newspaper division to subsidise the travel of ICT supporters by bus. As someone else said the game is nothing without the support, the supporters don'r realise the power they have, all it would take to rattle the TV companies would be a boycott of an important match in protest at stupid kick off times, an empty stadium isn't much of a TV spectacle. 

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I bet there are plenty lower crowds than 1000 for early Challenge Cup ties over the years.

 

Actually thought it was a quite decent crowd for 1) The Challenge Cup 2) Against a team we've barely heard of 3) On a Sunday Night 4) Bucketing rain 5) Live on telly.

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1 hour ago, wynthank15 said:

..... all it would take to rattle the TV companies would be a boycott of an important match in protest at stupid kick off times, an empty stadium isn't much of a TV spectacle. 

And what would the effect of that be? I don't think ICT - or indeed too many other Scottish clubs - are involved in games that TV companies are so desperate to show that they would be influenced by a fans' boycott. The more likely outcome would be that the TV company would either not renew the deal or only offer a reduced sum.

The reality is that Scottish football is so desperate for cash that it finds itself with little option but to make TV deals which aren't in the best interests of its fans. Part of this problem, alongside players being paid far more than their capacity to generate earnings, is that a disproportionate slice of Scottish football's total "turnover" is being cornered by just two clubs.

No disrespect, but ICT fans threatening to boycott matches in protest against TV companies rather reminds me of Stalin's reply when he was told that the Pope wasn't very happy about Soviet repression of Catholics: "The Pope? How many divisions has he got?"

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1 hour ago, wynthank15 said:

It's unfair to tar the 15,000 as glory hunters,

It has always been the same. Just to quote a single instance, go back to 1992 when, at a time when Caledonian's attendances at Telford Street were generally in the 300-500 range, 6000 packed in for the St Johnstone game in the Scottish Cup. The bigger the occasion, the more people turn up - and in 1992, playing St Johnstone in the Scottish Cup was a VERY big occasion.

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So....stand up to the TV companies by boycotting matches to sit at home and watch it on TV.

That'll show them 🙈

Aside from that...it's not actually the TV companies who are to blame.

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7 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

It has always been the same. Just to quote a single instance, go back to 1992 when, at a time when Caledonian's attendances at Telford Street were generally in the 300-500 range, 6000 packed in for the St Johnstone game in the Scottish Cup. The bigger the occasion, the more people turn up - and in 1992, playing St Johnstone in the Scottish Cup was a VERY big occasion.

And it brought out the Caley faithful from ALL over the UK. I was at Berwick and QOS midweek - Think that there were under 20 on both occasions ? Oh and what about Stranraer in the cup replay ?

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2 hours ago, PumpFake said:

It's almost as if it's a competition very few people care about!

Correct, I couldn't care less like the rest of our support and neither does the rest of Scottish Football including the SFA.

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10 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

And what would the effect of that be? I don't think ICT - or indeed too many other Scottish clubs - are involved in games that TV companies are so desperate to show that they would be influenced by a fans' boycott. The more likely outcome would be that the TV company would either not renew the deal or only offer a reduced sum.

The reality is that Scottish football is so desperate for cash that it finds itself with little option but to make TV deals which aren't in the best interests of its fans. Part of this problem, alongside players being paid far more than their capacity to generate earnings, is that a disproportionate slice of Scottish football's total "turnover" is being cornered by just two clubs.

No disrespect, but ICT fans threatening to boycott matches in protest against TV companies rather reminds me of Stalin's reply when he was told that the Pope wasn't very happy about Soviet repression of Catholics: "The Pope? How many divisions has he got?"

Charles, If there was no ICT support at the league cup final and it was announced that it was due to the ridiculous mid day kick off I assure you we would never have to play at stupid o'clock again in a major match, the TV companies would make sure of that. The TV companies will televise games for as long as they think they can make money from them, if people switch off, the TV money will move elsewhere. The only people making money out of TV deals are the players, if TV money disappears due to viewer apathy, wages will reduce dramatically. I refuse to be yanked around by the TV companies re kick off times, I don't care what the event is, as I said above I didn't go to the league cup final. Before Rome collapsed their highest paid sportsmen were their charioteers and their Chefs were celebrities, sounds familiar?

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2 hours ago, wynthank15 said:

Charles, If there was no ICT support at the league cup final and it was announced that it was due to the ridiculous mid day kick off I assure you we would never have to play at stupid o'clock again in a major match, the TV companies would make sure of that. The TV companies will televise games for as long as they think they can make money from them, if people switch off, the TV money will move elsewhere. The only people making money out of TV deals are the players, if TV money disappears due to viewer apathy, wages will reduce dramatically. I refuse to be yanked around by the TV companies re kick off times, I don't care what the event is, as I said above I didn't go to the league cup final. Before Rome collapsed their highest paid sportsmen were their charioteers and their Chefs were celebrities, sounds familiar?

I actually think Caley D answered that line of argument before it was made. Fans who choose not to attend simply boost the TV companies' audiences instead - which is what they are paying for. And once again, it has to be emphasised that Scottish football is hardly a "must see" crowd puller and if push came to shove, the TV companies would simply walk away, leaving the game with nothing.

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5 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

I actually think Caley D answered that line of argument before it was made. Fans who choose not to attend simply boost the TV companies' audiences instead - which is what they are paying for. And once again, it has to be emphasised that Scottish football is hardly a "must see" crowd puller and if push came to shove, the TV companies would simply walk away, leaving the game with nothing.

Not if Scottish viewers were sufficiently well organised and cancelled their subscriptions to SKY and BT Sports en masse. That would double the amount that the TV companies pay for our game. TV money has become a necessary evil in the game but Scottish football, largely to poor leadership of both the League and the SFA, continues to sell itself short.

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5 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

Not if Scottish viewers were sufficiently well organised and cancelled their subscriptions to SKY and BT Sports en masse. That would double the amount that the TV companies pay for our game. TV money has become a necessary evil in the game but Scottish football, largely to poor leadership of both the League and the SFA, continues to sell itself short.

A boycott would never work.  The numbers participating would be more than compensated for by new subscribers and all it would achieve is to demonstrate the power the TV companies have.  This is not just a problem for footbal in Scotland but in countries around the world.  The game is increasingly being dominated by a few big leagues in rich countries where the players in those leagues get paid obscene amounts of money whilst teams a couple of rungs below struggle to survive.  It is market forces which dictate, but I personally don't think it is good for the game.

As fans, I think we are powerless to do anything about it, but the football bodies who negotiate the contracts and run the game are not.  On their own, I don't think football authorities in smaller countries like Scotland can do very much  but if there was a more collective view, then change would be possible.  Of course, football bodies across the world may take the view that there is nothing wrong with the current arrangements - in which case the money continue to be concentrated within the elite.  However, if there was a collective view that money and TV exposure needed to be spread more widely to ensure the health of the game at grass roots level , then the TV companies and the big clubs  would have no option but to go along with it.

It's not going to happen though.  As long as we continue to see teams coming 3rd in the group stages of the champions league getting a free pass into the later stages of the Europa league, you know that the European football authorities collectively are only interested in allowing the obscene money tree for the elite to grow and grow.  Clubs like ours are left with trying to survive through gate money whilst potential "customers" stay at home or the pub and watch the elite on big screen HD TVs, complete with detailed action replays etc. Unless the footballing authorities change their tune, I'm afraid the future for clubs like ours is bleak.

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Business football (English top leagues and champions league, world cup etc) is creating a new sport which is sanitised and moving away from the traditional game. Tackling is gradually being  eradicated, diving is allowed because there was 'contact', video refs will analyse every decision. Scottish football has an opportunity to offer an alternative to business football. If we can leave football alone and offer something different to what people watch on a Wednesday night or an early Saturday morning, it may help to bring people back to our game. However I presume our governing bodies will just copy whatever the English leagues rather than making decisions for themselves.

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2 hours ago, Stirling Observer said:

Market our game as blood, thunder and passion. Some may see it as a backwards step but for many that's what makes football good. 

That surely means it'll be a sterile, defence-dominated 0-0 today  :sad:

Edited by snorbens_caleyman

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On 24/02/2018 at 12:21 PM, DoofersDad said:

A boycott would never work.  The numbers participating would be more than compensated for by new subscribers and all it would achieve is to demonstrate the power the TV companies have.  This is not just a problem for footbal in Scotland but in countries around the world.  The game is increasingly being dominated by a few big leagues in rich countries where the players in those leagues get paid obscene amounts of money whilst teams a couple of rungs below struggle to survive.  It is market forces which dictate, but I personally don't think it is good for the game.

As fans, I think we are powerless to do anything about it, but the football bodies who negotiate the contracts and run the game are not.  On their own, I don't think football authorities in smaller countries like Scotland can do very much  but if there was a more collective view, then change would be possible.  Of course, football bodies across the world may take the view that there is nothing wrong with the current arrangements - in which case the money continue to be concentrated within the elite.  However, if there was a collective view that money and TV exposure needed to be spread more widely to ensure the health of the game at grass roots level , then the TV companies and the big clubs  would have no option but to go along with it.

It's not going to happen though.  As long as we continue to see teams coming 3rd in the group stages of the champions league getting a free pass into the later stages of the Europa league, you know that the European football authorities collectively are only interested in allowing the obscene money tree for the elite to grow and grow.  Clubs like ours are left with trying to survive through gate money whilst potential "customers" stay at home or the pub and watch the elite on big screen HD TVs, complete with detailed action replays etc. Unless the footballing authorities change their tune, I'm afraid the future for clubs like ours is bleak.

I absolutely disagree, you are effectively saying that the fans don't matter but they do when it comes to a TV spectacle, if there are no fans there, even no away fans due to a ridiculous kick off time it absolutely matters to the spectacle. Someone quoted Jock Stein earlier "without the fans the game is nothing" absolutely correct. All it would take is for a group of fans saying we will not be yanked around for TV and will not attend a game with a ridiculous kick off time no matter how important and I guarantee it wouldn't happen again. I believe you would even have opposition fans complaining about no away support and ruining the spectacle, what fun is there with no opposition support to bait.

The question is, are a group of fans willing to take that step and say it's not on. If not, don't bleat about stupid o'clock kick offs.

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