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Laurence

A bit of History

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I noticed in my record book the following which was news to me     Not Caley Thistle, but certainly Inverness and certainly Thistle

Scottish Fa Cup  Third Lanark 9  Inverness Thiele 3   1893 - 94  Third Lanark were a 1st Division team

Sottish FA cup 1896 -97  Dundee  v Inverness Thistle    7 - 1 Probably the first time an Inverness team played a team still playing

 

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12 minutes ago, Laurence said:

Sottish FA cup 1896 -97  Dundee  v Inverness Thistle    7 - 1 Probably the first time an Inverness team played a team still playing

The Highland League was formed in 1893. In addition to Thistle and Caley, Clach and Forres were founder members who are still playing.

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Took about 5 seconds to find Caley 1-0 Nairn County in 1889 in the Qualifying Cup, followed by 10-0 after a Nairn protest.

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1 hour ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

The Highland League was formed in 1893. In addition to Thistle and Caley, Clach and Forres were founder members who are still playing.

The other founder members were the long defunct Citadel, Union and the Cameron Highlanders - all also Inverness teams. Thistle were the inaugural champions.

I believe that a team called Ross County also started, but disappeared after a few weeks, to be re-formed in 1929.

I also believe that the only club ever to have scored "nul points" is Elgin City.

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 When I have longer than 5 seconds , (incidentally it took George Jones of Bury less than 5 seconds to score against Notts County in the F A cup )  . I digress

I will delve further into my complete history of British football  to see when next a local team appeared in the Scottish cup rounds proper

Was  the Bon Accord club ( defeated 35.0 by Arbroath  )  An Highland league club or was it the forerunner of Aberdeen ?

 

Thanks to Charles for his input  most appreciated

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11 minutes ago, Laurence said:

 When I have longer than 5 seconds , (incidentally it took George Jones of Bury less than 5 seconds to score against Notts County in the F A cup )  . I digress

I will delve further into my complete history of British football  to see when next a local team appeared in the Scottish cup rounds proper

Was  the Bon Accord club ( defeated 35.0 by Arbroath  )  An Highland league club or was it the forerunner of Aberdeen ?

 

Thanks to Charles for his input  most appreciated

Laurence... for a very long time before the Scottish Cup was made "all in" a few years ago, Highland League sides had to qualify for it through the Qualifying Cup. For a time this was a national competition (which, off the top of my head, I think Inverness Citadel won in the 1930s) and then became North and South, with the late four in each progressing. Though this, Inverness clubs often qualified for the Scottish Cup and frequently - especially between around 1984 and 1992 - did very well.

By the way, the Arbroath v Bon Accord score in 1885 was 36-0.

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1 hour ago, Charles Bannerman said:

 Though this, Inverness clubs often qualified for the Scottish Cup and frequently - especially between around 1984 and 1992 - did very well.

In the mid 60s Elgin City did particularly well, being the only Highland League team ever to reach the quarter-final of the Scottish Cup, losing by a very creditable 3-1 to 1st Division Motherwell. (There were only 2 divisions then - Division 1 and Division 2. Very sensible names!)

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15 minutes ago, buckett said:

In the mid 60s Elgin City did particularly well, being the only Highland League team ever to reach the quarter-final of the Scottish Cup, losing by a very creditable 3-1 to 1st Division Motherwell. (There were only 2 divisions then - Division 1 and Division 2. Very sensible names!)

Absolutely! I was taking "local" as Inverness but Elgin's achievement was indeed inspiring.... especially to a wee Moray boy called Steve Paterson who followed every move of that campaign from the Borough Briggs terraces.

I remember attending the 25th anniversary celebration of that cup run at Borough Briggs in 1993..... ironically just before Elgin unfortunately disgraced themselves with the John Teasdale match fixing scandal, ruining what was also their centenary year.

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7 minutes ago, dougiedanger said:

Thistle won the old QC in the 30s.

I have done a bit of Googling since my earlier post and it seems that the Q Cup was a national competition up to and including 1929 and there were in facto no Highland winners there. In 1930, it became a North and a South competition and up until the War, the North final always seems to have been a HL team versus one from the central belt like Rosyth Dockyard or Penicuick Athletic. During that pre-war decade, the North Q Cup came to Inverness four times - Citadel (1930), Thistle (1931) and Clach (1934 and 1938). I'm not sure if there was then a North v South playoff final which Citadel and perhaps Clach and Jags won as well?

After the War, a new Midland Q Cup seems to have left the North one as the HL + Golspie arrangement which the current generation know and loved up until the "All In" which began in 2007. I seem to remember that for a few year after that the competition continued as some kind of non-Qualifying challenge cup.

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1 hour ago, Charles Bannerman said:

In 1930, it became a North and a South competition and up until the War, the North final always seems to have been a HL team versus one from the central belt like Rosyth Dockyard or Penicuick Athletic. During that pre-war decade, the North Q Cup came to Inverness four times - Citadel (1930), Thistle (1931) and Clach (1934 and 1938). I'm not sure if there was then a North v South playoff final which Citadel and perhaps Clach and Jags won as well?.

Charles, I think you are a wee bit out with some of the dates.

The first time the Q Cup was split into North & South sections was 1931-32. Citadel won it that season, on 12 December 1931 - more about that below. Thistle won it in 32-33. Clach in 34-35 and 38-39 - if the final was played before the turn of the year then that would give you the 1934 and 1938 dates for Clach. The Lilywhites had been the first Highland League team to reach the final, in 24-25, but were beaten by Royal Albert.

Citadel's road to victory is described in the booklet about them which was produced in 1990 (& revised in 1991), which some of you may have seen. I would hope that the Inverness library would have a copy.

They beat Caley 2-0 at Telford Street in the first round, had a bye through the second, beat Ross County 3-1 at the Longman, and then had a bye in the fourth round. This put them into the semi-final, and it looks as though this is where North were drawn against South. Citadel played Lochgelly Amateurs at the Longman on the afternoon of Wednesday 4th November, and drew 0-0. Three days later, they won the replay at Lochgelly, 1-0.  In the other semi, Murrayfield Amateurs beat Inverness Jags 4-1 at Kingsmills.

The final was on November 28th, at Pittodrie, and attracted a crowd of 5,000. This ended in a 3-3 draw. Everyone reassembled - well, not quite, the crowd was only 3,000 - at Pittodrie a week later, Dec 5th, and this time the score was 2-2.

The SFA scheduled the second replay for the next Saturday, the 12th. In a move which will sound very familiar, they set up this match between an Inverness team and an Edinburgh team, at... Easter Road!  Citadel were not happy, and suggested Perth or even Glasgow, but the SFA were having none of it. This no doubt added an edge to the celebrations when Citadel outplayed Murrayfield and ran out as 4-1 winners, in front of a crowd of just over 3,000.

They came home by train the next day, and despite the fact that it was the afternoon of the Sabbath, they were greeted at the station by a crowd of around 1,000. The team captain was carried shoulder-high as the Cup was paraded through the town behind a pipe band.

Sources:  "Highland Hundred": Bill McAllister's centenary history of the Highland League, and "Inverness Citadel Football Club": booklet by Geo Campbell.

 

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I thought that this might be of some interest, it's not Inverness Caledonian Thistle, but an Inverness Thistle/Caledonian select that had a very memorable game on the 21st September 1921. Tottenham Hotspur,  the English Cup holders, who defeated Wolverhampton Wanderers in the final by one goal to nil, visited Inverness on a tour of Scotland and played the Inverness Thistle/Caledonian in a challenge match at Telford Street Park. To the surprise and jubilation of the large crowd, who paid a total of £100 to watch the match, the Thistle/Caley select team defeated the English side by 6 goals to 3. It was the only match that Spurs lost on their Scottish tour.

The Thistle/Caley team, it is interesting to note, was captained by Mr. Roderick Fraser of Thistle, was one of the few players still living in Inverness when this article was printed in the Inverness Courier in 1971.

The manager of Spurs, Mr. Pat MacWilliam, was an Inverness man, who had played for Thistle, Newcastle and Scotland,  and the Spurs left-back Bob MacDonald, wad a former Caley player.

The Spurs side, which included four internationalists,  took an early lead and, stated the Courier report at the time, "crisp passing of the ball, ease of movement and certainty of purpose,  characterised their play." But MacDonald the Thistle centre forward equalised, and for the next half hour the spectators were treated to a delightful display of artistic football. After sterling work by Docherty and Robertson, the Caley combination,  Lamb of Thistle scored with a beautiful shot, and after Spurs had equalised,  Lamb and MacKensie of Thistle scored further goals to give the home select a 4-2 lead against their distinguished opponents at half time.

The dash of the home forwards continued to upset the Spùrs in the second period,  and Robertson of Caley had the satisfaction of scoring a fifth goal, before Spurs pulled a goal back. J. Sutherland of Thistle brilliantly saved a penalty by Dimmock, the Spurs outside left. Before the end MacDonald added another goal giving the home select a well merited 6-3 victory.

The teams were:- Thistle/Caley Select:- J. Sutherland(Thistle), A. Sutherland(Thistle) and Mitchell(Caledonian), J. Fraser(Caledonian), D.Fraser(Caledonian) and R. Fraser(Thistle) captain, Docherty(Caledonian), Robertson(Caledonian), MacDonald(Thistle), Mackenzie(Thistle) and Lamb(Thistle).

Tottenham Hotspur:- Hunter, Clay and MacDonald, Archibald,  Lowe and Grimsdell, Walden, Lindsay, Beed, Thomson and Dimmock.

After the match the teams were entertained to supper in the Caledonian Hotel. Many of the visitors,  including Mr. MacWilliam, congratulated the local playerson their well ddeserved victory,  which they said, showed that there was little wrong with Highland football. 

During their three day stay in Inverness,  Spurs had enjoyable drives to Cawdor Castle, Culloden, Strathglass and Cannich.

It would be great if ICT could arrange a game, anywhere near this stature,  for their 25th anniversary. 

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On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 3:06 PM, snorbens_caleyman said:

Charles, I think you are a wee bit out with some of the dates.

The first time the Q Cup was split into North & South sections was 1931-32. Citadel won it that season, on 12 December 1931 - more about that below. Thistle won it in 32-33. Clach in 34-35 and 38-39 - if the final was played before the turn of the year then that would give you the 1934 and 1938 dates for Clach. The Lilywhites had been the first Highland League team to reach the final, in 24-25, but were beaten by Royal Albert.

Citadel's road to victory is described in the booklet about them which was produced in 1990 (& revised in 1991), which some of you may have seen. I would hope that the Inverness library would have a copy.

They beat Caley 2-0 at Telford Street in the first round, had a bye through the second, beat Ross County 3-1 at the Longman, and then had a bye in the fourth round. This put them into the semi-final, and it looks as though this is where North were drawn against South. Citadel played Lochgelly Amateurs at the Longman on the afternoon of Wednesday 4th November, and drew 0-0. Three days later, they won the replay at Lochgelly, 1-0.  In the other semi, Murrayfield Amateurs beat Inverness Jags 4-1 at Kingsmills.

The final was on November 28th, at Pittodrie, and attracted a crowd of 5,000. This ended in a 3-3 draw. Everyone reassembled - well, not quite, the crowd was only 3,000 - at Pittodrie a week later, Dec 5th, and this time the score was 2-2.

The SFA scheduled the second replay for the next Saturday, the 12th. In a move which will sound very familiar, they set up this match between an Inverness team and an Edinburgh team, at... Easter Road!  Citadel were not happy, and suggested Perth or even Glasgow, but the SFA were having none of it. This no doubt added an edge to the celebrations when Citadel outplayed Murrayfield and ran out as 4-1 winners, in front of a crowd of just over 3,000.

They came home by train the next day, and despite the fact that it was the afternoon of the Sabbath, they were greeted at the station by a crowd of around 1,000. The team captain was carried shoulder-high as the Cup was paraded through the town behind a pipe band.

Sources:  "Highland Hundred": Bill McAllister's centenary history of the Highland League, and "Inverness Citadel Football Club": booklet by Geo Campbell.

 

I see what I've done, Snorbens. I should have written "AFTER 1930" rather than "in" and from there quoted, without looking at the list again, the first two winners Citadel and Thistle as 30 and 31.

The source was this www.nozdrul.plus.com/zfeweb/scotland/qcup/finals.html  which, if I'd actually read the year, which I did for Clach's two wins, does in fact quote 1934 and 38 for them. It doesn't, of course, detail when in the season the final was played. You'll note that, outwith Inverness, Elgin also won the original North contest on a couple of occasions in the 1930s.

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9 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

It would be great if ICT could arrange a game, anywhere near this stature,  for their 25th anniversary. 

Does Kevin MacDonald still have any connection with Aston Villa?

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In regards to the Arbroath-Bon Accord game, my understanding is that Bon Accord were actually a cricket side who the SFA mistakenly invited.  They had actually meant to invite an Aberdeen side called Orion FC, who later merged with two local sides to form the current Aberdeen FC.

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6 minutes ago, Renegade said:

 a cricket side who the SFA mistakenly invited.  

 

Orion FC .

In the first case, I see that the SFA haven't got any more efficient over the years..... and in the second, I didn't realise that Alan Savage had been sponsoring football for that long!

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