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Gary Warren told he can leave


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There is no doubt that good governance is to safeguard the future, be sustainable, balance the books, maximise revenue, limit expenditures and seek to gain a lead over competitors.             A Ryanair approach has been shown not to work and they themselves accepted they had cut and axed and maximised over and above the limit.  That limit is set, tacitly, by customers and in the same way the club, while doing all of the things above, must not jeopardise the brand or customer loyalty.  

If football is a business, as has become a major factor in this thread, then it is the business of entertainment.  The business of entertainment relies on attachment.  I don't need to point out in explicit terms what happens when attachment reduces.   It also has to be balanced with performance.  In this age of Netflix, cheap flights, smartphones, coffee shops the  only real asset we have is attachment and, if we look at our attachment, comes at an early age.  What the board has to do is balance attachment and performance.  As we have seen performances can swing quite rapidly, but if you undermine attachment, especially amongst our younger fans, then safeguarding the future, being sustainable, balancing the books, maximising revenue fall - and all you can do is keep limiting expenditure.

Most football fans are soft, it's the cold, hardened ones who would never appear at the stadium.  So cold, hardened decisions, I assert, will have a disproportionate effect.

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5 hours ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Would Gary be the captain next season ? Would Gary be a first eleven choice ? Would it be better to give a younger player the opportunity to be the squad cover ? Yes finances evidently play a part but this is also a footballing decision. 

Better tell Robbo that, because he states it's purely a financial decision.

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5 hours ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Football is a feckin business you soft bestards. The previous soft bestards where the ones who almost fecked up the club in the first place and agreed these over the top deals. lets all feel sorry for OFW and Foran eh ?

They also oversaw an immediate return to the Premiership after the last relegation, a League Cup Final, several upper Premiership League finishes, European Qualification and our name on the Scottish Cup.....what utter bastards, eh?!

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5 hours ago, CaleyD said:

They also oversaw an immediate return to the Premiership after the last relegation, a League Cup Final, several upper Premiership League finishes, European Qualification and our name on the Scottish Cup.....what utter ********, eh?!

To me that was as much to do with the players who were playing as a team and fer the shirt - good scouting, good signings, good FOOTBALLING decisions, Managers able to attract, with experience and with media savvy but well overpaid - no real mercenaries (well not many) - playing fer the shirt - And instead of steadying the ship AFTER the Scottish Cup Final they got very, very cocky and nearly sunk the ship - they "misused" the "winnings" and eventually went to the lifeboats.

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5 hours ago, CaleyD said:

Better tell Robbo that, because he states it's purely a financial decision.

And the opinion of the fans who watched last season ? What Robbo is stating is that Gary is not worth the payments that he is receiving because he will NOT be a starter next season. And I fer one think that he will be a squad player.

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7 minutes ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

To me that was as much to do with the players who were playing as a team and fer the shirt - good scouting, good signings, good FOOTBALLING decisions, Managers able to attract, with experience and with media savvy but well overpaid - no real mercenaries (well not many) - playing fer the shirt - And instead of steadying the ship AFTER the Scottish Cup Final they got very, very cocky and nearly sunk the ship - they "misused" the "winnings" and eventually went to the lifeboats.

Spot on IHE,  now we are in a wee boat but think we are sailing in the right direction.

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45 minutes ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

To me that was as much to do with the players who were playing as a team and fer the shirt - good scouting, good signings, good FOOTBALLING decisions, Managers able to attract, with experience and with media savvy but well overpaid - no real mercenaries (well not many) - playing fer the shirt - And instead of steadying the ship AFTER the Scottish Cup Final they got very, very cocky and nearly sunk the ship - they "misused" the "winnings" and eventually went to the lifeboats.

So they deserve all of the blame for the bad stuff and none of the credit for the good stuff?

 

43 minutes ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

And the opinion of the fans who watched last season ? What Robbo is stating is that Gary is not worth the payments that he is receiving because he will NOT be a starter next season. And I fer one think that he will be a squad player.

I based my comment on exactly what Robbo is quoted as saying in the press.  This one line about covers it....

"This has nothing to do with Gary’s ability, commitment or leadership as all are excellent."

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7 hours ago, CaleyD said:

They also oversaw an immediate return to the Premiership after the last relegation, a League Cup Final, several upper Premiership League finishes, European Qualification and our name on the Scottish Cup.....what utter ********, eh?!

And, it could be argued left the club in an appalling position both financially and on the field through their mismanagement in our relegation season. To suggest that the board were as hugely influential in this as you suggest is nonsense. The board, over several seasons, did not show they were capable of building on the good times and moving the club forward.

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5 minutes ago, Huisdean said:

And, it could be argued left the club in an appalling position both financially and on the field through their mismanagement in our relegation season. To suggest that the board were as hugely influential in this as you suggest is nonsense. The board, over several seasons, did not show they were capable of building on the good times and moving the club forward.

As I said to IHE....all the blame for the bad, and no credit for the good?

To think, people say I refuse to give a balanced view ?

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Just now, CaleyD said:

As I said to IHE....all the blame for the bad, and no credit for the good?

To think, people say I refuse to give a balanced view ?

It makes me laugh that folk still dont realise that the club doors would not even be open still if it wasnt for members of the previous board putting money into club still. 

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If I had to summarise this thread I would say there are relatively equal viewpoints on either side.  Neither being wholly right or wholly wrong.   It also seems to becoming slightly polarised by views on old board, new board.  Again, neither board were or are particularly all bad or particularly all good.  

I think all would agree however that settling for the Championship isn’t ambitious enough.   Much of the discussions are how we swap places with Livingston next season.  That end may be achieved by different means and it is those means that are being debated.  It is the outcome, promotion, not the method, that is the unifying element.  Some say retaining experience and stability, some say rolling the dice.  

Gary may have become a proxy for a less visible undercurrent that promises on better communication and fan engagement (or at least consideration) have only materialised when it comes to season tickets and shirt sales.  Again, some may not see that as a major issue and some may feel fan voice, fan role and fan contribution should be more pronounced.  Either way, I think it has been one of the better discussed threads which has had differing views.  I maintain my position but I can see the other views’ merit in terms of being outcome driven and end focused as opposed to worrying about the methods or means too much.  All illuminating, all informative, and hopefully not polarising.

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42 minutes ago, old caley girl said:

It makes me laugh that folk still dont realise that the club doors would not even be open still if it wasnt for members of the previous board putting money into club still. 

Can you tell us more ocg? I did hear that David Sutherland has put money in since leaving the board but are there others?

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8 hours ago, old caley girl said:

It makes me laugh that folk still dont realise that the club doors would not even be open still if it wasnt for members of the previous board putting money into club still. 

If that's the case then while not expected it's certainly honourable considering the position of the club financially and given it seems these unsustainable contracts in place with some current players and debts owed to ex-staff which are on going and of that regiemes own making. Facts and figures on this should be more transparent and better communicated.

Edited by bdu98196
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8 hours ago, IBM said:

Can you tell us more ocg? I did hear that David Sutherland has put money in since leaving the board but are there others?

She's probably referring to the "wondrous" Kenny Cameron, who pops in and buys a programme now and again 

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9 hours ago, old caley girl said:

It makes me laugh that folk still dont realise that the club doors would not even be open still if it wasnt for members of the previous board putting money into club still. 

Of course they baled us out financially and undoubtedly overspent. But they did eventually get carried away and undoubtedly encouraged by Messrs Butcher and Hughes. Unfortunately their financial management did not match their bankrolling expertise. I am referring to the mess that followed the Cup Final.

10 hours ago, CaleyD said:

So they deserve all of the blame for the bad stuff and none of the credit for the good stuff?

 

I based my comment on exactly what Robbo is quoted as saying in the press.  This one line about covers it....

"This has nothing to do with Gary’s ability, commitment or leadership as all are excellent."

As above for sentence uno - Great and accurate comment by Robbo in regard to the esteemed Gary Warren. Reading between the lines Gary has undoubted ability (but not capability anymore), his commitment is 100% and always has been (and undoubtedly will continue to be whatever he will choose to do) and his leadership skills have been there for all to see. Many people talk about the criteria for a club legend - and IMHO Gary is as close as you can get. But (undoubtedly for the evidently best possible reasons) Robbo did not add that his fitness and speed have diminished (as happens to all aging people) and he can no longer be guaranteed a first team place. Sitting on the bench and not playing would be the worst possible scenario for Gary. Perhaps career advice would be to get a PE job, carry on part time at ICT and look at coaching certificates. And I am not kidding when I suggest that an ICT manager of the future will be Mr Gary Warren.

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1 hour ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Of course they baled us out financially and undoubtedly overspent. But they did eventually get carried away and undoubtedly encouraged by Messrs Butcher and Hughes. Unfortunately their financial management did not match their bankrolling expertise. I am referring to the mess that followed the Cup Final.

As above for sentence uno - Great and accurate comment by Robbo in regard to the esteemed Gary Warren. Reading between the lines Gary has undoubted ability (but not capability anymore), his commitment is 100% and always has been (and undoubtedly will continue to be whatever he will choose to do) and his leadership skills have been there for all to see. Many people talk about the criteria for a club legend - and IMHO Gary is as close as you can get. But (undoubtedly for the evidently best possible reasons) Robbo did not add that his fitness and speed have diminished (as happens to all aging people) and he can no longer be guaranteed a first team place. Sitting on the bench and not playing would be the worst possible scenario for Gary. Perhaps career advice would be to get a PE job, carry on part time at ICT and look at coaching certificates. And I am not kidding when I suggest that an ICT manager of the future will be Mr Gary Warren.

Johndo I am meaning recently. 

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On 5/30/2018 at 10:20 PM, bdu98196 said:

He is well within his rights to sit and see out his contract which is legally binding and was agreed by the club. He has no obligation to look for another club or walk away. This is going to be another embarrassment same as Raven last season who was cast out then brought back and OFW who was in and out like the hokey-cokey. For a club that is known to struggle with recruitment of established players or those experienced from elsewhere in Scotland doing such business in public will not go un-noticed.

Refresh is acceptable, as is removing  'deadwoood' and under-achievers but it all has to be done the right way. If the club want GW out then pay off his contract or reach a settlement mutually agreeable, otherwise have the discussions behind closed doors and keep it that way - with those who are brave enough to make these calls need to be aware that if GW stays they need to get back to the table and maximise what he can bring to the club in whatever capacity can be accommodated and agreed.

That's my thoughts in a nutshell....we, as a club, never seem to be good at this sort of thing...

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On 5/31/2018 at 9:50 PM, Huisdean said:

And, it could be argued left the club in an appalling position both financially and on the field through their mismanagement in our relegation season. To suggest that the board were as hugely influential in this as you suggest is nonsense. The board, over several seasons, did not show they were capable of building on the good times and moving the club forward.

 

On 5/31/2018 at 9:56 PM, CaleyD said:

As I said to IHE....all the blame for the bad, and no credit for the good?

To think, people say I refuse to give a balanced view ?

But what you are trying to do is give previous boards credit for the good stuff while ignoring the bad and, it seems, trying to indicate the current board are much poorer than previous boards. The current board have had to deal with a lot of issues arising from mistakes/decisions from previous boards who have now long gone but have significant impacts on the club as it currently stands. While they perhaps should have been more aware of some of these issues, they didn't cause the majority of these (stand rentals, player/manager contracts etc.). We have all enjoyed the good times at the club but a more reasoned view of previous boards, and this board ultimately is required by some.

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What issues? Aside from relegation...and the new board came into that situation with eyes wide open...if not, then more the fool them.

I've never once claimed the previous board were perfect, but they ensured the club was financially stable.  The money in the bank at the end of the last financial year was more than at the end of (from quick checks) 18 of the previous 23 years.

Also, it was the previous board who first brokered a deal to bring the stadium/stands back into club ownership.....the current board didn't want that deal and are now doing one which will cost the club £30,000 a year more. For those who think that's BS, the current chairman confirmed that was rhe case at the last general meeting...but quickly moved on without elaborating why!!

Those are all verifiable facts and nothing to do with difference of opinion.

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2 hours ago, CaleyD said:

What issues? Aside from relegation...and the new board came into that situation with eyes wide open...if not, then more the fool them.

I've never once claimed the previous board were perfect, but they ensured the club was financially stable.  The money in the bank at the end of the last financial year was more than at the end of (from quick checks) 18 of the previous 23 years.

Also, it was the previous board who first brokered a deal to bring the stadium/stands back into club ownership.....the current board didn't want that deal and are now doing one which will cost the club £30,000 a year more. For those who think that's BS, the current chairman confirmed that was rhe case at the last general meeting...but quickly moved on without elaborating why!!

Those are all verifiable facts and nothing to do with difference of opinion.

i heard that ownership of the lease is not now being transferred but a long lease at £15k per year has been offered. don't know if that's right or not. maybe you know more.

Edited by caleyboy
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On 5/27/2018 at 11:24 AM, Charles Bannerman said:

You know, I've taken half an hour to reflect - by no means for the first time in recent months, but today through the medium of this individual thread - on where CTO seems to be going, in particular since relegation. The unfortunate conclusion is that it simply isn't the same vibrant and constructive medium that it was when I first joined in the early 2000s, and in particular the feeling that everybody was in this journey together seems to have gone. This isn't a sudden observation on my part, but more a "next step" in an ongoing process. Consequently, and this is a conclusion come to at considerable length, not just this morning, I think I'm going to give contributing to CTO a miss from now on. Quite frankly, it's lost its allure for me and I'm sure I can find some other means of engaging with ICTFC.

Ding dong the witch is dead! (the witch is dead!!) 

Close the door on your way out and don’t come back! Woohoo! 

*dances on grave*

*High fives Scarlett Pimple*

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