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No point for a squad of our size we just wouldn't have the players especially with the newly formed U18 league which will let all those young lads who signed contracts play in that. Plus we were playing bounce games quite a bit last season so fitness can be built there 

Edited by caleydawson
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41 minutes ago, caleydawson said:

No point for a squad of our size we just wouldn't have the players especially with the newly formed U18 league which will let all those young lads who signed contracts play in that. Plus we were playing bounce games quite a bit last season so fitness can be built there 

i hear what you say but the young pros would learn a lot more and quicker when playing against and with men than they ever will in any u18 league. 

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by the looks of things Alloa and ourselves are the only 2 clubs from the top two leagues not involved. we are the only full-time team not competing. personally i think this shows absolutely no ambition to bring on young players.

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It's perhaps a tactical decision to wait and see how beneficial the league turns out to be. No point entering if there are no benefits. Let the league play out, speak to other clubs and guage whether it is worthwhile. Look how thin our squad was last season, sometimes only managing a few subs. I think it may be the same this season. 

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With a small squad and very limited resourses, we are concentrating very firmly on the first term.

Maybe not the best long term strategy but, for this season at least, in my view, it's the right thing to do.

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8 hours ago, caleyboy said:

by the looks of things Alloa and ourselves are the only 2 clubs from the top two leagues not involved. we are the only full-time team not competing. personally i think this shows absolutely no ambition to bring on young players.

Our record at that is poor, over the last few years the only youngsters that have come through and given any real chance at the club are Ryan Christie & Liam Polworth, Nick Ross perhaps is another - all the rest get cast aside having either sat on the bench or given a few token sub appearances. We look to bring in guys released or on loan in their early 20's but less keen to give our teens a go - perhaps with less budget we will have no choice.

Edited by bdu98196
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We are involved in something called Project Brave are we not?  That means a full obligation of youth teams.  A reserve team (when our first team average age is 23 or so - can’t recall) would be quite a challenge on top.  With Daniel being added to the first team I suppose the first team will be giving more game time to promising youth players.  

We should be looking at/wanting to/feeling capable of winning the league but the reserve opt-out perhaps hints that the strategic planning has not made that the benchmark for success or primary outcome.  If as Caleyboy says it is just Alloa and ourselves that’s interesting but how heavily invested in youth teams are all those other teams too? 

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just my opinion but I think you will find the requirements of project brave (where this badge came from GOK) will be costing the club a fortune. it is all very well advertising we coach a huge number of players but the vast majority will not have any chance of achieving full time football. Charlie and his team broke all records in taking 10 into full time this year, for which they should be applauded,  but I believe this was from an exceptional group (which may take decades to repeat). imo this is yet another hugely expensive exercise by the SFA and I will not be surprised to see it scrapped in a year or two. we need to develop players as quickly as possible and I totally agree with the SFA that a reserve league is the way forward. it is just a pity we don't have the vision or funding to take advantage of this opportunity.

Edited by caleyboy
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Arguably the vision is from having a full complement of youth teams.  With finances highlighted as a perennial issue perhaps the strategy is to have a first team of homegrown players, from whatever is produced.  The buzzword at the club is 'sustainable' and I imagine that means self-sufficient.  No Premiership team could do that but it is somewhat possible in the Championship if a few players are brought in to keep the wold from the door in the shape of finishing in the bottom two.  A reserve squad hints at a larger first team of players near/in their peak, whereas we have about 13 such outfield players.  

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2 hours ago, Glover said:

Arguably the vision is from having a full complement of youth teams.  With finances highlighted as a perennial issue perhaps the strategy is to have a first team of homegrown players, from whatever is produced.  The buzzword at the club is 'sustainable' and I imagine that means self-sufficient.  No Premiership team could do that but it is somewhat possible in the Championship if a few players are brought in to keep the wold from the door in the shape of finishing in the bottom two.  A reserve squad hints at a larger first team of players near/in their peak, whereas we have about 13 such outfield players.  

i think youth teams are vital but it is the next step I am worried about. the development league was obviously a failure. these young boys will develop a lot earlier if they play alongside and against experienced players. 

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I have no idea where Project Brave came from either!  Unusual title.  If I understand your argument correctly, you are saying less is more.  Fewer youth players (just the most promising) but playing at a higher level/against more senior and/or challenging opposition.  

I think the bottom line is the bottom line.  If we were in the top division it would likely be different.  

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3 hours ago, caleyboy said:

i think youth teams are vital but it is the next step I am worried about. the development league was obviously a failure. these young boys will develop a lot earlier if they play alongside and against experienced players. 

It is that gap in progress/development that the SPFL/SFA have constantly failed to rectify....and one which Project Brave also fails to rectify.

As the song goes.....Rip it up and start again!!

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If by the age of 17-18 you are not in or around the first team I wouldn't expect any player to 'make it' with us.

 

Don't understand the issue here, by the U18's league the next natural step should be first team football - why add another step into that needlessly?

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49 minutes ago, jamie ictfc said:

If by the age of 17-18 you are not in or around the first team I wouldn't expect any player to 'make it' with us.

 

Don't understand the issue here, by the U18's league the next natural step should be first team football - why add another step into that needlessly?

Nobody is suggesting another level, as such.  What's needed is a means for these young fringe players to be getting regular competitive game time in a more experienced environment to allow them to properly develop and realise their potential.

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4 hours ago, CaleyD said:

Nobody is suggesting another level, as such.  What's needed is a means for these young fringe players to be getting regular competitive game time in a more experienced environment to allow them to properly develop and realise their potential.

That's why we send them out to highland league sides on loan and if they struggle or don't impress they won't make it.

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Not against the idea, it is/was the best option available to us....but it also means that they get Highland League quality training, match prep, tactics etc.

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They actually still take part in most if not all training sessions with the first team due to theirs being through the day and the highland league sides training at night so in regards to some aspects like fitness they could be ahead of players due to them training so much 

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On 7/25/2018 at 11:27 PM, CaleyD said:

Not against the idea, it is/was the best option available to us....but it also means that they get Highland League quality training, match prep, tactics etc.

Correct but the reverse is also true, when you look at the reserves or development league, due to the paucity of quality at first team level their development is poor. Look back to the 60's when the old firm had top sides, both also had outstanding reserve teams because they were playing and training with top notch first team players. The current lack of quality filters its way down. Any player in our top league who looks like he might have some ability joins a championship club though many haven't made it and come back home in short order. The massive difference in standard shows up in our european results where clubs you've never heard of can comfortably beat ours with the exception of Celtic and yet even they now are forced to play ties at home as though they were the away team in terms of possession against the top european clubs which was not the case in the past. Scottish clubs once supplied many players to the premiership now we recruit players from non league such is the state of our game.

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21 minutes ago, wynthank15 said:

Correct but the reverse is also true, when you look at the reserves or development league, due to the paucity of quality at first team level their development is poor. Look back to the 60's when the old firm had top sides, both also had outstanding reserve teams because they were playing and training with top notch first team players. The current lack of quality filters its way down. Any player in our top league who looks like he might have some ability joins a championship club though many haven't made it and come back home in short order. The massive difference in standard shows up in our european results where clubs you've never heard of can comfortably beat ours with the exception of Celtic and yet even they now are forced to play ties at home as though they were the away team in terms of possession against the top european clubs which was not the case in the past. Scottish clubs once supplied many players to the premiership now we recruit players from non league such is the state of our game.

I think you may be making the same point I was!!

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