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34 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Well either way at least we dont have to read his nonsense any more.

But we still have to put up with yours.

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1 hour ago, Shorty said:

But we still have to put up with yours.

😂🤣🤣 fair enough ,but Im happy to remain here for now

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4 hours ago, Gregor said:

Well either way at least we dont have to read his nonsense any more.

A reasonable point of view. Personally, I would have preferred if he had remained and learned to be a bit more constructive and a lot less abusive.

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27 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

A reasonable point of view. Personally, I would have preferred if he had remained and learned to be a bit more constructive and a lot less abusive.

Nothing wrong with your pov either.

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I am a bit torn on White actually.  His record speaks for itself and that would be enough to justify a start if Robbo wanted to go that way.  Some of his touches were honking though, but then you get a goal like the one against Morton that was excellent!?

 

CaleyD's post is a good one.  Being a bit frustrated and voicing at the time of a mistake is natural but there is a line that people are crossing at TCS and sadly Jordan got it in the neck on Tuesday.  Not nice listening to it and I wish folk would cut it out. 

 

"He used to be $hite, but now he's alright!"...lest we forget Sir Dennis didn't exactly have the best of starts did he?

 

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First Polworth now White. For gods sake get a life. If these guys confronted their critics face to face they would crap themselves. Supporters should do exactly that..... SUPPORT.

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7 minutes ago, caleyboy said:

First Polworth now White. For gods sake get a life. If these guys confronted their critics face to face they would crap themselves. Supporters should do exactly that..... SUPPORT.

Exactly. I've never shirked away from stating on the forum that imo players are simply not good enough for the club, whether they are likely to read the forum or not (and if I was a player I would steer clear of reading the self-defeating crap that occasionally appears here. Football is played 75% in the head).

But I draw the line at the type of OP made here. Absolutely out of order. Likewise abusing your own players on matchday. We're all passionate but do you honestly think it helps the player or the club? Jeez.

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1 hour ago, caleyboy said:

First Polworth now White. For gods sake get a life. If these guys confronted their critics face to face they would crap themselves. Supporters should do exactly that..... SUPPORT.

Very well said Caleyboy. I actually get the impression that there are a minority of our fans who would rather witness mediocrity so they have something to whinge about rather than success leaving them with nothing to moan about.

As Caleyboy says, if you call yourself a supporter then support. True supporters support through thick and thin 

I think that some have been spoiled by our huge success in the too tier for a decade. We should back the team to the hilt no matter what level we are playing at.

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2 hours ago, caleyboy said:

If these guys confronted their critics face to face they would crap themselves. 

There's a few of them confronted me over the years, mostly for what other folk said :lol: ...... but I also agree. Fine line between abuse and criticism. Criticism is ok, especially if you have the balls to back it up or say it face to face. Abuse is never ok and some of the stuff thrown at the likes of Vigurs, Polly and now White is just bang out of order.

The lad is scoring goals, they may not be goals of the season, but so long as they hit the back of the net thats all that matters. We are no longer a top six premiership team so expecting that level of performance from players we can currently afford in our budget is completely unrealistic. Robbo has to get the best he can out of the group he has. He has done it before and is trying again ... As much as we are all frustrated with all the draws, as someone pointed out in another thread, they are not defeats ..... a couple of wins and a few more goals and we will all be much happier.   

 

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3 hours ago, Scotty said:

There's a few of them confronted me over the years, mostly for what other folk said :lol: 

Find that hard to believe. 

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White, Chalmers, Rooney and Brad McKay are all players that wouldn't have got anywhere near our squad 3 years ago. Now they're regular starters, and that's the level that we've dropped to. All of the players i've mentioned have put in a huge amount of effort every time I've seen them, and the spirit of the team looks really strong.

We've had players and teams that have deserved abuse from the stands, and I've never been shy about dishing it out, but anyone who's giving it out to these guys is deluded about the quality we have on the park.

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3 players that I have deemed worthy of abuse over years:

Barry Wilson had the talent to play in the top tier for his whole career, but came to us in the bottom tier so he could jog around on the right touchline in his buttock-hugging XXL shorts. He had me next him for the first half of every home game that season shouting "bit of effort Wilson", and he only told me to feck off twice. 

Don Cowie downed tools completely at the start of his second season after his head was turned by potential moves darn sarf. Cowie became a millionaire while we got relegated. Utter count. 

Billy King is a man with no testicles. 

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47 minutes ago, Caley Stan said:

We've had players and teams that have deserved abuse

Can understand being worthy of criticism but what exactly merits abuse??

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On 10/31/2018 at 12:36 PM, MrCaleyjag said:

I'm just wondering who your next thread will be about?

First Doran, now White .......................

We're all entitled to our opinions but constant berating of players does nothing to instill any confidence or show any backing and what really do you hope to achieve by your posts? 

How about being a little more constructive and get behind individuals more. 

Good post. Doran has been a loyal club servant. White will do a job for us. 

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I think I shouted abuse at Dougie Imrie when he got sent off in the challenge cup final, he ran on the pitch, kicked someone and then ran off - an absolute tantrum of a performance.

When it comes to White, again i can't comment on him specifically as I've not been at games this season but generally two types of player attract a lot of abuse from the stands - targetmen strikers and holding midfielders.  Holding midfielders do a job that's unflashy and often isn't even about them possessing the ball, it's about their positioning etc, so their contributions can be missed (Russell Duncan the prime example of this for us).  Big targetmen strikers give teams a great option in terms of going direct and pose a problem from set plays.  One reason that they get abused is often they look ungainly, they play scrappy and aren't prolific goalscorers.  If White can be an effective targetman then he'll be a big asset for us and if he can chip in a goal every other game then he'll be vital.

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15 minutes ago, Tree said:

Can understand being worthy of criticism but what exactly merits abuse??

In my book nothing merits abuse.  It is simply wrong in any case, but the tragedy of it is that abuse of one's own team's players is counter productive.  It puts additional pressure on players who are probably only too well aware that things aren't going great for them in the particular match.  When things go wrong, they need support and encouragement.  Abuse will not help them play better.

It is maybe worth reflecting briefly on what provokes some folk to be abusive.  One is poor play and the other is attitude, but in both it can all be very subjective and misplaced.  Take Liam Polworth on Tuesday night who again came in from some stick from the North Stand.  On a couple of occasions in the first half he was shaping to play a cute ball forward into space and it looked as though the intended recipient of the pass was running into the space behind the defender.  But on both occasions the player pulled wide into more obvious (but less dangerous) space and Polworth had to adjust very late with the result that one pass went straight to a defender and the other went tamely out of play.  Of course, on both occasions some of the crowd were on Polworth's back, but it wasn't really his fault.  In the 2nd half there was an occasion when he tried to get well forward but the ball didn't reach him and he ended up beyond the goal line.  Dunfermline moved the ball forward quickly and Polworth was last getting back.  One person in particular was berating him for being lazy in a particularly foul mouthed way, but Polworth had put in good effort throughout the game and is entitled to catch his breath from time to time.  He's not Mo Farah.

And shouting at Jordan White is not going to suddenly make him able to jump 6" higher than he can.

 

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Agreed. The kind of abuse we are discussing on here is counterproductive, if for no other reason than  the simple fact of life being that we all make mistakes.And more readily as we grow older, by the way. No one is perfect  but with football their gaffes can stand out in an unnecessarily bad way. What's with all the abuse then and how does the abuser think that that will help him be better? In the case of a strong-character player It might, but generally speaking, it just adds to the burden of guilt he may well be feeling. And that is NOT nice or uplifting.

Most players, as has been stated, are acutely aware that things are not going well , especially if they are the ones making mistakes. But encouragement is a great uplifter because it's saying to the players .."better luck next time old chap , currently all is forgiven, just go and play to your potential."

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2 hours ago, Tree said:

Can understand being worthy of criticism but what exactly merits abuse??

A lack of effort - I think I make that clear in the second post. And I don't think anyone in our current side is guilty of that, it's just that most of them fall well short of the playing standard we've been used to over the past decade or so.

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I think that the lack of quality is what irks the average Joe fan, especially the ones who remember the mid to late 2000's  I spoke to two neutral football fans who had been guests at Tuesday's game, They did comment on the lack of quality on show, highlighting our right back and the target man up front, Although they said they thought there was a lack of cohesion within in the team there was no lack of effort.  

Maybe this is us?  Or is it Robbo unable to get the team motivated tactically and mentaly. 

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9 hours ago, caley100 said:

I think that the lack of quality is what irks the average Joe fan, especially the ones who remember the mid to late 2000's  I spoke to two neutral football fans who had been guests at Tuesday's game, They did comment on the lack of quality on show, highlighting our right back and the target man up front, Although they said they thought there was a lack of cohesion within in the team there was no lack of effort.  

Maybe this is us?  Or is it Robbo unable to get the team motivated tactically and mentaly. 

As a group of professional footballers there should be no need for the manager to have them be motivated tactically or mentally. They should be helping him by doing this themselves. After all it is their job. 

Edited by MorayJaggie
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Folk will declare dramatically online or in person that this player is rank etc etc. Now they are in a position where they have to highlight each mistake to justify their claim, rather than lose face. Wouldn't surprise  me if there are some supporters who would rather see a player miss a golden chance just for the opportunity of a 'i telt you so and so is *****'. Sad times 

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2 hours ago, MorayJaggie said:

As a group of professional footballers there should be no need for the manager to have them be motivated tactically or mentally. They should be helping him by doing this themselves. After all it is their job. 

Couldn't disagree more with this.  We all go through periods where we benefit from a little bit of a motivational pick-me-up....be that in work, or just day to day life.

It happens for various reasons, but as often as not it's because people lack a little belief in themselves and doubt starts to creep in...the more you focus on it, the deeper you get into the hole.

I've been doing an NLP and Life Coaching Diploma with a guy called Don MacNaughton.  I first met Don when he used to come in and work with ICTFC players during Terry Butcher's time at the club...and there are few who could argue that Terry didn't get the best from his players when here...so the evidence that working on the mental aspect of things with players is beneficial and there for all to see.

Many of the larger clubs (and an increasing number of not so large clubs) do regular sessions of this nature with players, and an increasing number are working with players at a young age.  This means that more among future generations of players will have the tools to help themselves with the mental aspect of the game, but it won't be with everyone and unless a club are developing it themselves and/or signing players who've been at clubs who do...then many aren't going to have it as part of their arsenal.

If a club isn't investing in a third party to undertake mental coaching, then it's even more important that the manager (or coaches) undertake the role of motivator.  That's not a judgement on what Robbo and the staff are or aren't doing at present; and whilst I'd be concerned if they weren't doing something in this area, I don't actually know if they are or not.

Personally...In the last 20 months I've gone from being a 31.5 stone heart attack waiting to happen, to a far happier 19 stone (and dropping) bloke who's got a chance of making it beyond his 45th birthday.  I didn't need to be taught how to get off my ass, go for a walk/run/cycle or how to count calories (although I did do a 6 week gym based bootcamp)...but I did need a bit of help to develop the mental habits and exercises that are helping me become a better version of myself...on all fronts.

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On 11/3/2018 at 11:43 AM, CaleyD said:

Couldn't disagree more with this.  We all go through periods where we benefit from a little bit of a motivational pick-me-up....be that in work, or just day to day life.

It happens for various reasons, but as often as not it's because people lack a little belief in themselves and doubt starts to creep in...the more you focus on it, the deeper you get into the hole.

I've been doing an NLP and Life Coaching Diploma with a guy called Don MacNaughton.  I first met Don when he used to come in and work with ICTFC players during Terry Butcher's time at the club...and there are few who could argue that Terry didn't get the best from his players when here...so the evidence that working on the mental aspect of things with players is beneficial and there for all to see.

Many of the larger clubs (and an increasing number of not so large clubs) do regular sessions of this nature with players, and an increasing number are working with players at a young age.  This means that more among future generations of players will have the tools to help themselves with the mental aspect of the game, but it won't be with everyone and unless a club are developing it themselves and/or signing players who've been at clubs who do...then many aren't going to have it as part of their arsenal.

If a club isn't investing in a third party to undertake mental coaching, then it's even more important that the manager (or coaches) undertake the role of motivator.  That's not a judgement on what Robbo and the staff are or aren't doing at present; and whilst I'd be concerned if they weren't doing something in this area, I don't actually know if they are or not.

Personally...In the last 20 months I've gone from being a 31.5 stone heart attack waiting to happen, to a far happier 19 stone (and dropping) bloke who's got a chance of making it beyond his 45th birthday.  I didn't need to be taught how to get off my ass, go for a walk/run/cycle or how to count calories (although I did do a 6 week gym based bootcamp)...but I did need a bit of help to develop the mental habits and exercises that are helping me become a better version of myself...on all fronts.

Well said lots of good valid points,well done too on your personal achievements so far.

Edited by Gregor

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On 11/2/2018 at 9:25 PM, ictchris said:

I think I shouted abuse at Dougie Imrie when he got sent off in the challenge cup final, he ran on the pitch, kicked someone and then ran off - an absolute tantrum of a performance.

I think I actually did the same and it's one of the very few appearances I remember so vividly from a player because it was so short lived and the worst display of petulance I've ever seen. For this performance alone I have no time for him as a player.

I don't shout abuse, yes I'm vocal but in the main it's encouragement. 

Players get more than their fair share of grief from opposition fans so the last thing they need is to hear it and receive it from their own. 

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