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sectarian chants


bdu98196

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1 hour ago, Gregor said:

See here is a wee thing I could find what you have said to a fellow fan , saying what he believes as nonsense,more offensive than what was said on the team bus

However I wouldn’t want you sacked for it or disciplined by your employers for it.

Im not a RC but I’m a Christian and I do understand that RCs may find the term FTP offensive but as Christians we have to turn the other cheek as Christ taught us.

What annoys me is the faux outrage that goes on today as we live in a blame culture and there is always some do gooder wanting someone to be punished for minor issues.

Maybe if we adopted what Jesus said when he caught a women in adultery 

He said to all the accusers who wanted her punished

He who is without sin cast the first stone

Maybe we should all think about this before we criticise 

Anyway Kingsmills I have no problem with you thinking I’m stupid for having a faith in God and I wish you and your family a very happy Christmas and a great new year.

 

As I've said, while I personally think it is bizarre, I have no difficulty with others who do have faith in a supreme being whoever she may be.

I have faith in human decency and respect for others. I may not have 'brethren' who may or may not need converting to my particular way of thinking but I do have brothers and sisters all over the world whatever their religious allegiance or lack thereof. Christians do not have a monopoly on decency, morality or respect for others.

Edited by Kingsmills
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13 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

As I've said, while I personally think it is bizarre, I have no difficulty with others who do have faith in a supreme being whoever she may be.

I have faith in human decency and respect for others. I may not have 'brethren' who may or may not need converting to my particular way of thinking but I do have brothers and sisters all over the world whatever their religious allegiance or lack thereof. Christians do not have a monopoly on decency, morality or respect for others.

What I find bizarre is that in saying you have no difficulty with folk who have faith, you have a wee dig at God refering to him as she.

so maybe think you do have a difficulty with it actually.

However I do 100% agree with you that christians dont have monolopy in deceny morality and respect for others, we are only human afer all.

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57 minutes ago, davie said:

I’m probably the most lapsed catholic that I know but I have to say that I find some of the responses in this thread crap beyond belief. I had thought, for years, that sectarianism was a problem that existed in the central belt and was largely absent here. I wonder how I got this so wrong, so:

 

“Oh dear, grown men on a night out using swear words. I won't be losing any sleep over it”.

 

So is a clear statement of sectarian hate acceptable? If it’s not acceptable to sing this in the middle of Glasgow on a Saturday night, it’s not acceptable anywhere. Using the expression “F**k the Pope” is, by definition, sectarian. If you said it at a football match, you would be prosecuted under the OFBA.

 

“It's not the smartest thing that has been done, but because it has been videos and published somewhere some drunken 'humour has been deemed to be sectarian. There's worse being said at play school”

 

This is wrong in its entirety. It is clearly sectarian and the very opposite is taught in schools.

 

The deleted post by “Gadgie Coff” was gone before I could screen grab it but it was stunningly poor to the extent that it was probably criminal in and of its self. There is a problem within the Catholic Church with inappropriate sexual behaviour but the assertions in that post were inaccurate and exaggerated. Those of you who saw it will make your own minds up about that.

 

“Racism is prejudice against people for what they are, and is many levels more serious than religious bigotry”

 

Wrong. Both are equally serious in the eyes of the Law and both have been at the root of untold misery- ask people in Northern Ireland. Bigotry is bigotry is bigotry.

 

“Yes it did go over my head, so why wouldn't the same draconian exercise be undertaken when someone blasphemes the name of God or Christ rather than the Pope? who after all is a mortal man masquerading as the Vicar of Christ on earth”

 

By all means hold your view but does that really have to demean others? Masquerading implies deceit through appearance. It’s not, it’s simply a different way of expressing faith to yours.

 

“No one is defending it, as Christians we are taught to love our neighbour of whatever belief , Romanist, Muslim, Buddist but the comments of  Bdu 98196 displays all the prejudices of the Roman inquisition. If no one accepts guilt you are all guilty, all must atone, no appeals. That said, why should anyone have respect to the Pope who has usurped the place of Christ. who says to followers of the Roman sect "come out of her my people that ye be not partakers of her sins and that ye receive not of her plagues" Rev18:4.Note: MY people. Roman Catholics are MY brethren and I have many RC friends whom I hope to convert to the true path before this life is done”.

 

By implication, you do not recognise Catholics as Christian and given the rest of your post I can understand why. The office of the inquisition was abolished in the 18th Century and to be honest you simply use the kind of exceptionalist arguments that they would have used against you. I wouldn’t ask you to respect the Pope, I’d ask you to respect everyone. By the way, Christ said nothing about Catholicism. His death predated and informed it. You are chronologically wrong.

 

“Acceptance by fans of religious hate crimes -really ? Tad hysterical don't you think

 

No, for the reasons stated above.

 

“I agree completely with that, but it sits at odds with your previous post. Irish Catholics are hated in Scotland, not because of their religious choices, but because they belong to or were descended from a large group of migrant 'others'. That's where the parallel with racism comes in”

 

Are Irish Catholics hated in Scotland? Not in my part of it. Your history is wrong. Scotland was a largely Catholic Country until the reformation in the 16th Century. Only then did Protestantism become the dominant religion, got exported by Scots to Ulster and the rest is actual history.

 

I’m not a RC but I’m a Christian and I do understand that RCs may find the term FTP offensive but as Christians we have to turn the other cheek as Christ taught us. What annoys me is the faux outrage that goes on today as we live in a blame culture and there is always some do gooder wanting someone to be punished for minor issues. Maybe if we adopted what Jesus said when he caught a woman in adultery. He said to all the accusers who wanted her punished, He who is without sin cast the first stone. Maybe we should all think about this before we criticise”

 

 Punishment? No, all I want is people to see that this tripe is unacceptable. Full stop, so I’ll criticise.

 

Sorry about the length of this but all this thread has done is tell me that there is a broad stripe of low grade sectarianism voiced here at the football club I have supported for years, some of it by people I genuinely thought knew better. My kids were brought up Catholic and one of them now teaches in a Catholic school. I know that they would be raging if they read some of the stuff here. I am on their behalf.

 

If you want dramatics, this is my last post here. I won’t be back.

 

Can i just ask 2 questions as you quoted my post and then said in summary there is a broad stripe of low grade sectarianism voiced here

Are you accussing me of sectarianism?

What do you think should happen to the player who said the offensive words?

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50 minutes ago, davie said:

<snip>..........

If you want dramatics, this is my last post here. I won’t be back.

While I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post, I don’t agree with this part. The thread contains a number of ‘man in the street ‘ type responses which you are right to challenge. You may meet similar views in a pub but I would like to think you would challenge such views rather than leave your pint half finished and walk out. The gadgie post was rightly removed before anybody could react to it. Some will greet your words with ‘snowflake’ etc but as in so many aspects of life, the key to dealing with prejudice is always the same - education. 

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10 minutes ago, Gregor said:

What I find bizarre is that in saying you have no difficulty with folk who have faith, you have a wee dig at God refering to him as she.

so maybe think you do have a difficulty with it actually.

However I do 100% agree with you that christians dont have monolopy in deceny morality and respect for others, we are only human afer all.

I don't know if you've noticed but there are a large number of female deities. I accept though that your personal deity is male.

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1 minute ago, TheMantis said:

While I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post, I don’t agree with this part. The thread contains a number of ‘man in the street ‘ type responses which you are right to challenge. You may meet similar views in a pub but I would like to think you would challenge such views rather than leave your pint half finished and walk out. The gadgie post was rightly removed before anybody could react to it. Some will greet your words with ‘snowflake’ etc but as in so many aspects of life, the key to dealing with prejudice is always the same - education. 

By far the best and most measured post on this thread.

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1 minute ago, Kingsmills said:

I don't know if you've noticed but there are a large number of female deities. I accept though that your personal deity is male.

thanks  mate no problem, but I do enjoy a discussion and its good to get others pov.

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1 hour ago, davie said:

"I agree completely with that, but it sits at odds with your previous post. Irish Catholics are hated in Scotland, not because of their religious choices, but because they belong to or were descended from a large group of migrant 'others'. That's where the parallel with racism comes in”

 

Are Irish Catholics hated in Scotland? Not in my part of it. Your history is wrong. Scotland was a largely Catholic Country until the reformation in the 16th Century. Only then did Protestantism become the dominant religion, got exported by Scots to Ulster and the rest is actual history.

I meant 'where there is hatred towards  Irish Catholics', not that Irish Catholics are widely hated. 

And I'm aware of the reformation, thanks davie, but it's not relevant to the point I was making.

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Ok, I am closing this topic. I have scanned it but have not read it all, and am not going to. I have had a few personal emails about it and really dont have time for all this right now. My cancer surgery is tomorrow and I do not have time to deal with this additional stress. 

As the group of adults on this site no longer appear to be able to conduct civil discussion on any bloody thread whatsoever without reducing it to personal backbiting and pissing contests I am seriously considering winding up the entire site in January. I am going to be recuperating for several months and do not have the time or inclination to babysit people. There is little to no enjoyment in this site any more. It used to be a place where a bunch of sensible folks could talk about ICT and our connection back to the club or to the area. Now it is not and is seems to have become a place where keyboard warriors want to flex their cyber muscle and try to score points off each other. Thats not what I spent time and money creating 25 years ago and its not what I am willing to keep putting money into. 

 

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