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Bronson

Goal scorers

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I was reading a debate on twitter last night between Jordan White 's father and a supporter. The supporter was saying that Jordan had only scored 4 goals in 20 odd matches and it wasn't good enough for a striker. His dad argued by saying Jordan is one of only a handful of players to have scored x number of goals over the last few seasons. 

 

So who is right? How many goal's has Jordan scored this season? I thought it was more like 15, unless the supporter was meaning league games? 

Thoughts? 

 

 

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With regards to yesterday Jordan worked his socks off with little service. My own opinion is that he is never going to be a prolific scorer but we are not set up to his strenghs? 

The fan having a go last night admitted to not having been at Ayr which was the point Jordans dad was making. 

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Was it big Js dad or Gregor in disguise? Whites an enigma hard to say if he'd be good in a team with better wingers defo not cut out as a lone striker the way Robbo plays usually tho like OCG says he usually puts a shift in 

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He has 7 from 22 games in all competitions this season, according to the stats on here.

Doran is top of our scorers with 8.

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From the highlights I've just viewed of yesterday's game most of the best chances we created fell to White. Sadly he fluffed his lines with all of them. We definitely need a more prolific striker if we are to stand any chance of promotion.

 

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From what I can see for this season, he has scored

4 League goals

2 League cup goals

1 Scottish Cup goal

 

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It’s been pretty obvious that we have lacked firepower up front since the start of this season.

Jordan is a very honest player but is not a goal scorer and is not a target man in the traditional sense either.

If we had a Shankland up front we would be a shoe-in for 2nd and possibly be able to challenge for 1st.

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Give him a break, he was banging them in against the likes of Edinburgh City an East Kilbride last season.  He's no more out of his depth than Shane Sutherland will be next season.

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Up tops a position Robbos never been able to fill the signing of Sutherland doesn't fill me with joy either no had a decent striker since McKay under Foran ! Rest of the teams as good as any in the league just toothless upfront he signs players who's records are already atrocious and thinks they'll bang them in where's his contacts even players like Zak Rudden or Brian Graham would be a huge improvement on who wev got and Sutherland

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I find myself (mostly) agreeing with an Alan Simpson post...

White seemed to be getting a bit irked by some of the long balls played up to him on Saturday. He had a go at Ridgers and Tremarco for, I'm guessing, not really getting the ball in an area where he could actually win it. He's limited striker but he works hard and we really don't seem to play to his strengths. We ended Saturday with two capable wide players with good crossing ability in Doran and Walsh who could easily have put in a decent ball for White (or Toddy) to attack but instead we continued to ping high balls up to the giant Ayr defence to win. Strange.

And of course all these high balls sailing up over the midfield take Keatings out of the game for long periods as well as he never gets near the ball and White struggles to win it in the air to lay it off to him (Keatings).

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The bottom line is that White is simply terrible in the air. The persistence in using the long ball tactic is ridiculous. White does appear more adept with the ball played into his feet. Neither is he made to be a lone striker and he really suffers for that.

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Maybe we should put in a cheeky bid for Aguero.  You never know he might fancy some Highland air.  I reckon that would be a good partnership

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On 1/26/2020 at 9:08 PM, Tree said:

It’s been pretty obvious that we have lacked firepower up front since the start of this season.

Jordan is a very honest player but is not a goal scorer and is not a target man in the traditional sense either.

If we had a Shankland up front we would be a shoe-in for 2nd and possibly be able to challenge for 1st.

I think the following chart proves your theory wrong.

Ive highlighted White and Keatings

This chart is made up of the current top 20 goalscorers in the Championship for league goals only.  both players are in top 5 over last 6 seasons for scoring and also in top 8 for ratios. This season we dont seem to be getting enough from both players, but they are proven goal scorers. Maybe we should play both together as a front two to see if that will click.

Interesting to note the top scorer is Dobbie but Queens are not in the premiership, so it takes more than scoring goals to get promoted. Its a team game and that makes the transfer of Donaldson and McCart at this time all the more annoying.

image.thumb.png.b42d23adf78073184dfe3b4a86d3c18d.png

Maybe its time for all our fans to get behind White in the same way we do with Rooney, dont you think the fans chanting his name hasnt  helped big Shaun become a better player.  I think some fans have got into their heads that White is rubbish and we can get so much better. Well the chart proves he has nothing to prove in the Championship. Some of you maybe will still think he is a big donkey but he is our big donkey who can help us to promotion imo. We are in a battle in the next few months lets stick together for a push for promotion.

Edited by Gregor

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26 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I think the following chart proves your theory wrong.

Ive highlighted White and Keatings

This chart is made up of the current top 20 goalscorers in the Championship for league goals only.  both players are in top 5 over last 6 seasons for scoring and also in top 8 for ratios. This season we dont seem to be getting enough from both players, but they are proven goal scorers. Maybe we should play both together as a front two to see if that will click.

Interesting to note the top scorer is Dobbie but Queens are not in the premiership, so it takes more than scoring goals to get promoted. Its a team game and that makes the transfer of Donaldson and McCart at this time all the more annoying.

image.thumb.png.b42d23adf78073184dfe3b4a86d3c18d.png

Maybe its time for all our fans to get behind White in the same way we do with Rooney, dont you think the fans chanting his name hasnt  helped big Shaun become a better player.  I think some fans have got into their heads that White is rubbish and we can get so much better. Well the chart proves he has nothing to prove in the Championship. Some of you maybe will still think he is a big donkey but he is our big donkey who can help us to promotion imo. We are in a battle in the next few months lets stick together for a push for promotion.

I was at Ayr on Sat and all I heard around me was encouragement for Jordan. As for Rooney some players will always catch on with fans more than others. 

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Have heard that Big Jordan's teaming up with Wesley Snipes to make "White Men Can't Jump 2 - The Soccer Years"

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That chart will look even more appealing next year when all the Dundee United players aren't on it...and therein lies the major flaw in the chart - it's the also rans, the nearly made it's, etc.

All the teams of the past 3 years with the best goalscorers don't show up on it because they won the league.

Even the fact that shankland & Dobbie have been scoring regulars they weren't the top scorers in their respective years (until now).

So if you were to build a more complete picture,  including the title winners of the last x number of years you would paint a picture that doesn't really need to be painted because we can see week in week out where our strengths & weaknesses are.

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4 hours ago, old caley girl said:

I was at Ayr on Sat and all I heard around me was encouragement for Jordan. As for Rooney some players will always catch on with fans more than others. 

There was loads of encouragent on Saturday no doubt about that. The away fans are always fantastic.

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3 hours ago, Satan said:

That chart will look even more appealing next year when all the Dundee United players aren't on it...and therein lies the major flaw in the chart - it's the also rans, the nearly made it's, etc.

All the teams of the past 3 years with the best goalscorers don't show up on it because they won the league.

Even the fact that shankland & Dobbie have been scoring regulars they weren't the top scorers in their respective years (until now).

So if you were to build a more complete picture,  including the title winners of the last x number of years you would paint a picture that doesn't really need to be painted because we can see week in week out where our strengths & weaknesses are.

I can see where your coming from but its a snapshot of the championship atm

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Your table doesn't prove anything. To many variables to say white is in top 5 for this division. He isn't our top scorer this season we have two midfielders providing more goals each. We need a striker and white is not it. He is slow. Cannot take on defences. Useless in the air. Does not have the ability to run at defences. I'd rather todorov got started every week. 

Edited by MorayJaggie

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11 minutes ago, MorayJaggie said:

Your table doesn't prove anything. To many variables to say white is in top 5 for this division. He isn't our top scorer this season we have two midfielders providing more goals each. We need a striker and white is not it. He is slow. Cannot take on defences. Useless in the air. Does not have the ability to run at defences. I'd rather todorov got started every week. 

nah you are right the table  proves absolutely nothing

Just you think what you think despite the facts as you are entitled to an opinion, so am I but I just happen to back it up with stas mate.

The lad has scored over 100 goals but some on here say he isnt a goal scorer , he was out top scorer last season and most  likely will be again , but hey you carry on with your negativity,

What an idiot I am thinking that people would maybe just for once give our player some credit.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Gregor said:

nah you are right the table  proves absolutely nothing

Just you think what you think despite the facts as you are entitled to an opinion, so am I but I just happen to back it up with stas mate.

The lad has scored over 100 goals but some on here say he isnt a goal scorer , he was out top scorer last season and most  likely will be again , but hey you carry on with your negativity,

What an idiot I am thinking that people would maybe just for once give our player some credit.

 

 

Your very good at manipulating stats. Anyone can do that and looking at your table you can see there is far superior strikers in that table. Who have played less seasons and games in the championship but scored more goals. What's prove nothing they only prove what the person presenting them wants them to prove. He was our top scorer last season your right and we didn't get promoted or get through the playoffs. We drew to many games couldn't put easily winnable games to bed because we didn't have a striker who could score goals. Goals win games and we aren't scoring enough goals to win games. Why give a player credit for being mediocre. He is a striker who can't score. 

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Regardless of whether a striker scores 30 goals last season and none this or vice-versa - unless they are consistent and averaging 1 in 2 then its classed as a poor return, there are exceptions for players who create and act as great foils such as Sutton or Sheringham etc - but this is the general expectation. Its clear over the last few seasons the JW is not a top striker and while the constant defence is applauded, he will never be remembered (on current stats and performances) as an ICT great and unlikely to even make the top 10 or 15 over our history - regardless of the numbers presented.

What we have at the club are 2 players who are probably better goal scorers in Toddy who never seems to get a run of games and Storey who never gets played through the centre or given chances in what (from history) was his best position.

While Robbo persists with the Scottish football hoof-ball approach this will not change, regardless of JW being duff in the air we will continue to punt high balls to him, either from the backline or poor quality crosses from players played as wingers but with limited end ball product. In the past with a player like Foran, Ofere, Oakley, Fisher etc we may have stood a chance for knockdowns to the likes of Doran or Keatings but now we don't.

Either the players ignore the instructions to play the ball to JW feet or our tactics don't consider playing to the strengths of our players. During training does JR see something we don't and JW dominates the defenders hoping one day that's a role he can perform in games (if so perhaps that raises questions around the quality of the defenders or effort in training or why its just no happening for JW).

 

Edited by bdu98196
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As I have said in another topic

White has been top scorer for the clubs he has been with in his last 5 seasons in Scottish football.

Thats not manipulation it is history.

He can only play for the club he plays for and that one atm is Caley.

It appears we have some people who have made their mind up about Jordan and will not budge or give him credit for much at all.

 

 

 

 

 

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You completely miss the point a striker has to a) bang in the goals with reliable regularity or b) provide an outlet to bring others into the game and provide assists for teammates.

He does neither well enough to suggest he anything other than an average Championship level forward - and no matter how many stats go up a return of 10 in 25 or 11 in 28 means even if we did get promotion he isn't good enough to step higher up. Hence why he's only even kicked around the lower leagues.

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1 minute ago, bdu98196 said:

You completely miss the point a striker has to a) bang in the goals with reliable regularity or b) provide an outlet to bring others into the game and provide assists for teammates.

He does neither well enough to suggest he anything other than an average Championship level forward - and no matter how many stats go up a return of 10 in 25 or 11 in 28 means even if we did get promotion he isn't good enough to step higher up. Hence why he's only even kicked around the lower leagues.

aye ok

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