Jack Waddington

League restructure

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For some reason, it feels like the coronavirus has also increased talk among fans about an entire restructure of Scottish Football (mainly expanding the Premiership, and dropping it to playing each other twice a season)

But this one, is something else.

https://purefitbaw.com/2020/03/13/the-scottish-football-pyramid-and-utopia/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

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14 minutes ago, bughtmaster said:

looking at the teams in both leagues It would seem that ICT have gone to the wall😔😭

No. It proposes 3 divisions with ICT in the top flight. Sounds good to me!

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Great ideas but unlikely to happen. Those in charge will bend over for the Ugly Pair and Sky Tv. If there’s not 4 games a season for them to televise they won’t even consider it. 

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I think just about anything is an improvement over the current setup and I really like this idea, it has an exciting fresh feel to it.

Gerry Britton at Partick was giving an interview about the effects of a lengthy league shutdown and mentioned there are various scenarios being discussed. Seems like it's possible they may have a minor restructure to increase the Premiership to 14 clubs. There would be no relegation this year, promotion for the top two sides from each division, with Brora and Kelty being promoted from the Highland and Lowland leagues. 

So not much different from now, we do need something more radical, but it does put us back in the Premiership. 

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1 hour ago, CaleyCanary said:

Gerry Britton at Partick was giving an interview about the effects of a lengthy league shutdown and mentioned there are various scenarios being discussed. Seems like it's possible they may have a minor restructure to increase the Premiership to 14 clubs. There would be no relegation this year, promotion for the top two sides from each division, with Brora and Kelty being promoted from the Highland and Lowland leagues.

I do think that something needs to be done, and would welcome larger divisions, whilst noting the consequent problem of teams being marooned in mid-table with little to play for except position.

However, I can't see any changes being made for next season.  The reason I say that is this season would then have started under one set of rules, especially those governing promotion and relegation, and ended, albeit unexpectedly, under another set of rules.  Can't do that.  For example, those teams which still had a chance of promotion, but which would miss out if you changed everything, would cry foul.  In the Championship, that could be everyone beneath us except Partick. 

Can't start a competition under one set of conditions and end it under another.   I think they will have to declare the season null and void.

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2 hours ago, jagster said:

Great ideas but unlikely to happen. Those in charge will bend over for the Ugly Pair and Sky Tv. If there’s not 4 games a season for them to televise they won’t even consider it. 

On reading the article, the 4 Cellic / Rankers matches would still take place?

But agree unlikely to happen. Too many vested interests. The current set up doesn't allow enough movement between leagues (especially between Premiership and championship). Far too difficult for the smaller clubs to achieve promotion (the premiership / championship play offs are weighted heavily in favour of the 11th placed top league team).

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1 hour ago, DWH said:

 

...But agree unlikely to happen. Too many vested interests...

I guess our 'vested interest'  differs from the others 🙄

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This will be a golden opportunity for the SPFL to consider and implement a decent league re-construction that would benefit all clubs including the part time clubs assuming all survive this crises but I expect they will only look after the big clubs Hearts and Dundee United included.

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Need games back on soon to divert these idle minds from wasting their time coming up with more crazy ideas of league reconstructions and fanciful permutations. Nothing will change.

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Best bet would be to hand the titles to Celtic DUFC who are miles ahead anyway likes of Falkirk and Raith could have a 1 of game seeing as there in a title race winner takes all hearts go down we face 2nd bottom in a 1 of game winner takes all! Tho unlikely to happen be a quick easy solution teams at the bottom now deserve to go down had 3/4 of a season to climb the table

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57 minutes ago, Alan Simpson said:

Best bet would be to hand the titles to Celtic DUFC who are miles ahead anyway likes of Falkirk and Raith could have a 1 of game seeing as there in a title race winner takes all hearts go down we face 2nd bottom in a 1 of game winner takes all! Tho unlikely to happen be a quick easy solution teams at the bottom now deserve to go down had 3/4 of a season to climb the table

Unfortunately that's not mathematically certain, as yet no team in Europe has won their league  - not even Liverpool. Simply handing over a title could result in all sorts of legal battles and compensation, relegation similar. Hearts have already said they would contest in court, every other team top and bottom affected would do the same (across Europe) - it will be an unprecedented mess. The only way to decide is play out the games (unlikely), get all member clubs in those leagues to agree majorities on the final placings (unlikely) or void the whole lot.

The SPFL have already set a precedent by only awarding partial prize monies to Celtic/Rangers/M'well based on top 6 positions with all others equal split - therefore acknowledging there are as yet no finalised places. Therefore from a Rangers or Hearts position it means that there is an acceptance the league places can still change and unless mathematically certain (like the 3 top 6 teams) no other conclusions can be drawn.

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Would be crazy to relegate Hesrts. Just look at Partick as well, bottom but if they win their game in hand they move off the bottom. It just wouldn’t be fair.

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Yup, very tricky situation for the footie authorities. Will be v interesting to see how they propose to resolve  matters (realistically no way the season will be able to finish north or south of the border).

Can very much see challenges  / legal actions following.........................

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15 hours ago, Alan Simpson said:

Best bet would be to hand the titles to Celtic DUFC who are miles ahead anyway likes of Falkirk and Raith could have a 1 of game seeing as there in a title race winner takes all hearts go down we face 2nd bottom in a 1 of game winner takes all! Tho unlikely to happen be a quick easy solution teams at the bottom now deserve to go down had 3/4 of a season to climb the table

yeah Im sure they will ask for your advice lol

 

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7 hours ago, Gregor said:

yeah Im sure they will ask for your advice lol

Perhaps they should be asking the fans advice, its clear the authorities are unsure. Maybe those who pay for the game should be given a chance on the outcomes - can be done through clubs, fan groups and even subscriptions with clubs taking the position to the table of the league bodies and voting that way. It may not be clean with different countries/leagues voting in alternate ways but that's where the overlying decision from UEFA for consistency across Europe will come in to collate those views and present in a transparent and public manner.

 

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It's a nightmare.  I think we can assume that it is highly likely that in Europe most leagues are not going to be able to complete the current season before the next season is due to start, so if there can at least be a universal decision that no further games will take place in the current season, (they are still actually playing in Belarus!) then we can then begin to move and consider the options.

I'm sure we all have our opinions and preferences but the key consideration of the authorities will be to avoid legal challenge from those clubs disadvantaged.  Bear in mind that a legal challenge could result in an injunction to prevent any games in a league taking place until the process of the challenge (and perhaps any appeals) have been heard.Some leagues and associations may have rules on the process to follow in the event of unforeseen events preventing the completion of the season and others may not.  It may be that some leagues are responsible for determining how the league positions are decided but a separate body determines how promotion works between different leagues.  One then has to consider how consistent the local rules are with any guidance and rules laid down by the international ruling bodies.  I am sure clubs, leagues and associations around the world are busy consulting with their lawyers.

In England the FA has come to the decision (yet to be ratified by its Council, I believe) that the season for clubs below the national league structure is to be declared null and void.  Clearly some clubs who have had outstanding seasons are far from happy with that, but my guess is that this may be seen more widely as the fairest (or least unfair) and easiest solution. 

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1 hour ago, DoofersDad said:

In England the FA has come to the decision (yet to be ratified by its Council, I believe) that the season for clubs below the national league structure is to be declared null and void.  Clearly some clubs who have had outstanding seasons are far from happy with that, but my guess is that this may be seen more widely as the fairest (or least unfair) and easiest solution. 

I think it's the only sensible solution.  It would be tough on clubs like Liverpool and Dundee United, but these are extraordinary times.

I would hope that any club who challenged such a decision would get short shrift in court.  And also hope that reasonable agreements regarding money can be made with sponsors, advertisers, broadcasters, etc - and season ticket holders.

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2 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

It's a nightmare.  I think we can assume that it is highly likely that in Europe most leagues are not going to be able to complete the current season before the next season is due to start, so if there can at least be a universal decision that no further games will take place in the current season, (they are still actually playing in Belarus!) then we can then begin to move and consider the options.

I'm sure we all have our opinions and preferences but the key consideration of the authorities will be to avoid legal challenge from those clubs disadvantaged.  Bear in mind that a legal challenge could result in an injunction to prevent any games in a league taking place until the process of the challenge (and perhaps any appeals) have been heard.Some leagues and associations may have rules on the process to follow in the event of unforeseen events preventing the completion of the season and others may not.  It may be that some leagues are responsible for determining how the league positions are decided but a separate body determines how promotion works between different leagues.  One then has to consider how consistent the local rules are with any guidance and rules laid down by the international ruling bodies.  I am sure clubs, leagues and associations around the world are busy consulting with their lawyers.

In England the FA has come to the decision (yet to be ratified by its Council, I believe) that the season for clubs below the national league structure is to be declared null and void.  Clearly some clubs who have had outstanding seasons are far from happy with that, but my guess is that this may be seen more widely as the fairest (or least unfair) and easiest solution. 

The pedant in me can't resist pointing out that the Scottish football authorities will not face an 'injunction' 😁

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The Belgian league look set to end their season now and crown Brugge the champions, needs to be endorsed at a meeting on the 15th. Could this could set a precedent with other leagues following suite?

 

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