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Jack Waddington

League restructure

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8 minutes ago, lightlamp2 said:

Phase 3 in Scotland does allow for limited crowds at stadiums so fingers crossed

Even if we got to that stage, that would mean a maximum of about eight or nine hundred fans in our ground.

We were haemoraging cash in the Championship with crowds of two and a half thousand and people in hospitality and the stadium bar open, neither of which are likely to be available.

In order to even think about being able to field a team, we would need to come up with innovative solutions to plug that gap.

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12 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

we would need to come up with innovative solutions to plug that gap.

Short term anyways, its likely that apart from the elite level sports, then the number of professional sports persons will significantly reduce including footballers as they will need to get 'regular' jobs to pay bills and do sports part-time. A club like ICT, in a lower league in Scotland may get enough revenue to have a mix of full/part-time but player may need to accept even lower wages. There will be plenty clubs in much worse positions financially. Overall the standard of football will drop and clubs will be fielding a mix of youngsters and those willing to play for the limited cash in budgets. For most the ability to field 11 players will be a challenge, being competitive is another hurdle - but there will be clubs throughout the country trying to cut budgets/overheads and costs.

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I am fast losing interest in Scottish Football to be honest, but please correct me if I am wrong here. Ann Budge's save Hearts league reconstruction got binned with very little interest and rightly so in my opinion. Now Mr Doncaster has come out off the woodwork and suggested the exact same proposal and is expecting/hoping the same clubs vote yes this time?? Something seems terribly off here? 

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45 minutes ago, GogglesWalter said:

I am fast losing interest in Scottish Football to be honest, but please correct me if I am wrong here. Ann Budge's save Hearts league reconstruction got binned with very little interest and rightly so in my opinion. Now Mr Doncaster has come out off the woodwork and suggested the exact same proposal and is expecting/hoping the same clubs vote yes this time?? Something seems terribly off here? 

Aye just a bit like the Dundee vote :wink:  Who knows what is likely to happen :shrug:

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Once it became clear that there was no chance of the the 2019/20 season being completed and that the Coronavirus was going to have a significant effect on clubs' finances, there was one obviously sensible solution which could and should have been agreed promptly.  Had agreement been reached, then clubs would now be in a position where they would know which division they were playing in next season and what the makeup of that division was.  It would have given clubs the opportunity to plan as well as is possible in what is an unprecedentedly difficult time.

Two basic principles should have been accepted.  These are 1) that no club should be unnecessarily disadvantaged by the fact that it was not possible to finish the season and 2) uncertainty should be eliminated as much as possible, as soon as possible.  Making the Premiership a 14 team division and keeping the other 3 divisions as 10 team divisions by promoting the top 2 in each division and the champions of the Highland and Lowland leagues would have meant no relegation and would have satisfied those 2 basic principles.

Any dissent to this could have been overcome by making it a temporary arrangement for 2 or 3 seasons with an agreement on a process to discuss restructuring.  The SPFL management are there to represent the interests of all clubs but have clearly had a very different agenda.  The capacity for Scottish football to shoot itself in the foot never ceases to amaze.

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It's clear that sky are pulling the strings. They wanted the league finished so it wouldn't affect their exclusive deal next season. Now that's in place. They want hearts back in the top league to boost viewing figures, especially as the virtual season ticket may be linked to sky in some way. Doncaster is merely their puppet.

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32 minutes ago, Stirling Observer said:

It's clear that sky are pulling the strings. They wanted the league finished so it wouldn't affect their exclusive deal next season. Now that's in place. They want hearts back in the top league to boost viewing figures, especially as the virtual season ticket may be linked to sky in some way. Doncaster is merely their puppet.

that ticks all the boxes of the story so far. i think you are bang on. Worst part is that if they went with DD's suggestion above your post, one which has been touted hundreds if not thousands of times by many folk, then they would have achieved exactly that and looked forward thinking and fair in the process.   The words piss-up and brewery definitely spring to mind when talking about Doncaster and his cohorts.

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12 minutes ago, Caledonianfc1885 said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52941423 . Now this is very interesting !

Certainly is, and also let’s us bleed young players in the Highland League by having a team there potentially. 

Goodness knows if it will gain traction though. 

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11 minutes ago, Caledonianfc1885 said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52941423 . Now this is very interesting !

Doesn't sound too bad. Anything that breathes life (and money) into the lower leagues is a good thing. The current dross there are stagnant with no ambition (looking at you Elgin) and need a kick up the backside. I was very impressed with the Rangers colts when we played them earlier this year.

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Interesting maybe, but presenting such a radical change so late in the day leaves little time for consultation.  And what say do the Highland and Lowland league clubs have in all of this if there is a suggestion that other teams could field Colts teams in those leagues?  Scottish football certainly needs radical reform but it also needs to think through the implications of any particular proposal.  This is why agreeing to the straightforward 14,10,10,10 option as a temporary measure to addresses the current crisis is such a sound idea.  Agreeing that for 2 or 3 seasons means there would be time to have some proper discussion on more radical structural changes.

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2 hours ago, Caledonianfc1885 said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52941423 . Now this is very interesting !

No. Not a big fan of it. Rethink the League Three idea, just with expanded leagues, 14/12/10/10/10. Makes for a more exciting system as opposed to throwing the Old Firm Colts into the mix to try and get more money.

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24 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

Interesting maybe, but presenting such a radical change so late in the day leaves little time for consultation.  And what say do the Highland and Lowland league clubs have in all of this if there is a suggestion that other teams could field Colts teams in those leagues?  Scottish football certainly needs radical reform but it also needs to think through the implications of any particular proposal.  This is why agreeing to the straightforward 14,10,10,10 option as a temporary measure to addresses the current crisis is such a sound idea.  Agreeing that for 2 or 3 seasons means there would be time to have some proper discussion on more radical structural changes.

Interesting it certainly is , innovative it most definitely is , and  absolutely refreshing it is. A business (which collectively Scottish football is) that stands still is effectively going backwards. The evidence is there just look at  our recent pedigree in the Champions League & Europa league and then there's our national team exploits. Change is needed and needed now. I am far from a fan of the Old Firm but what Sevco is proposing right now is by far the best option for Scottish football at this moment in time. Self interest in the SPFL only ring fences the current small financial pot on offer but improvement and innovation will open up more revenue streams and make the business of Scottish football more attractive to the outside world. However the restructuring of the leagues is not the panacea  restructuring within clubs is paramount - ineffective vice chairman, costly CEO's, non productive highly paid jobs for the boys need to be irradicated. Lets do it and do it now ! 

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200 tickets at £15 equals £3000  + another possible £1000 for streaming games will be hard to turn down by clubs who are struggling financially. 

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12 hours ago, Stirling Observer said:

How does this help Scottish football? Apart from a bribe and a way for the old firm to skip the que. 

It doesn't. It helps Rangers and Celtic and no one else. Colts are treated like some kind of silver bullet to improve the national team but there's a plethora of reasons why Scotland isn't as good as Italy or France. Start with the coaching and facilities rather than forcing through something that has been soundly rejected time and time again by lower league sides. 

There's a perfectly good system in place already to develop youngsters and help lower league sides. Use the loan system rather than allowing these B teams in so Rangers and Celtic can stockpile even more young players in their ranks. 

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I need to stop listening to Sportsound. The amount of diddy chairman that come on. Elgin chairman today couldn't form a coherent sentence about why he doesn't want reconstruction at all. "eh eh eh eh eh stability" and "eh eh eh eh eh status quo" 

 

We shall see how the status quo works when his club hopefully goes bust. Dragging Scottish football down. They offer nothing to the league.

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1 hour ago, lightlamp2 said:

We shall see how the status quo works when his club hopefully goes bust. Dragging Scottish football down. They offer nothing to the league.

Don't like seeing teams go bust, but I somewhat agree. When you're not bringing anything to the table, even though you were the 3rd off the blocks from the Highland League, and are still struggling at the back of the pack. They'll never offer any excitement in a 10 team league, as they're pinging off the promotion and relegation playoffs like a bouncy ball every season, the expansion, be it just the additional two teams, or adding a third league is needed desperately. Or, at the very least, rework the league so two go down, and one come up from each league, fully incorporating the Highland and Lowland Leagues into the pyramid, with probably the North Caley FA hooking onto the bottom of the Highland League as a feeder league.

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I agree that the Elgin chairman should be concentrating on addressing the serial underachievement of his own club rather than stubbornly standing in the way of progress for the league system as a whole.

A club serving a community with the population of Elgin should be somewhere between the bottom of the Championship and the top of League One.

Instead, they have been forever stuck in the lowest tier and generally towards the bottom of that tier at that. They really need to get their own house in order before trying to pull down the houses of others.

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4 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

I agree that the Elgin chairman should be concentrating on addressing the serial underachievement of his own club rather than stubbornly standing in the way of progress for the league system as a whole.

A club serving a community with the population of Elgin should be somewhere between the bottom of the Championship and the top of League One.

Instead, they have been forever stuck in the lowest tier and generally towards the bottom of that tier at that. They really need to get their own house in order before trying to pull down the houses of others.

Absolutely. It just irks me that a club like Elgin. Who have zero ambition and have NEVER left the bottom division and have no desire to given that the proposals they enthusiastically reject would see them into league 1. Would seek to pull down a club like ourselves that punch regularly above our weight. Have won the most prestigious cup in Scotland on probably one of the lowest budgets a team would have. Not to mention the amount of players we have progressed. Where would Aberdeen be without the players they poached of us? THAT is what we bring to the league. 

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7 hours ago, lightlamp2 said:

Absolutely. It just irks me that a club like Elgin. Who have zero ambition and have NEVER left the bottom division and have no desire to given that the proposals they enthusiastically reject would see them into league 1. Would seek to pull down a club like ourselves that punch regularly above our weight. Have won the most prestigious cup in Scotland on probably one of the lowest budgets a team would have. Not to mention the amount of players we have progressed. Where would Aberdeen be without the players they poached of us? THAT is what we bring to the league. 

A very good point. I am struggling to think of a single player produced my Elgin during their two decades or so in the Scottish Leauue.

There must be some but, right now, I can't think of any whereas the Scottish Premiership and various leagues in England from their top division down have been peppered with players produced or improved by their time at the Longman.

Take a long look in the mirror and wind your neck in Graham Tatters. If you have nothing positive to contribute to the debate then much better to contribute nothing in much the same way as your club has contributed nothing to Scottish football this millennium.

A pathetic state of affairs. When Elgin were in the Highland League they reached the quarter finals of the Scottish Cup. Since admission to the Scottish League I'm not entirely sure that they have even reached that far in the Challenge Cup.

In fact their biggest achievement since has probably been coming within two minutes of holding us to a draw in the Scottish Cup, a prospect that had their fans almost wetting themselves with excitement until that balloon was punctured not once but twice in the dying minutes.

Edited by Kingsmills
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Letting the Evil Two youth teams in helps the Evil Two and no one else. So at some stage it will probably happen.

 

The whole game in Scotland has been badly run - and run in the interest of the big two - for so long that there was no way it could cope with the disruption of Covid. Whatever you think of English moneybags football (and I loathe it) their authorities were clear about what they wanted to do from the off. The SPFL and SFA are making stuff up as they go along.

 

Every poll of Scottish fans makes it clear we are fed up with playing teams 3/4 times a year. Everydicussion of change makes it clear the authorities and the broadcasters want to keep four league Domestic Abuse Derbies a year above all else.

 

In many ways I don't see any hope for Scottish club football. We just must cultivate our garden - fllow your team wherever, whoever they play, at whatever level.

 

I accept what some have said about the dead wood in League 2. Assuming the clubs and syste survives there needs to be a wider exchange of clubs between L2 and the Highland and Lowland (and, now, West and East tier 6) Leagues. That'd freshen things up and bring fresh interest. So it'll never happen.

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Yep spot on Kirkie. 

RiG also had an excellent point...

On 6/6/2020 at 10:28 AM, RiG said:

There's a perfectly good system in place already to develop youngsters and help lower league sides. Use the loan system rather than allowing these B teams in so Rangers and Celtic can stockpile even more young players in their ranks.

For decades now the two of them have been clearing any decent talent out of the other clubs only to have them warm their backsides in the stands each week or even on the bench if they were lucky. It diminished the quality of opposition and that, as much as anything else, has seen the gradual decline in standards in our leagues and the national side.

What worries me is that in these difficult times there might be too many lower league clubs willing to vote yes for this plan as they are so desperate to get a few bob into their coffers.

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