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Jack Waddington

League restructure

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1 minute ago, Kingsmills said:

No surprise. Hearts will shout very loudly but are very unlikely to go to court.

In many ways. I welcome the clarity and at least we can now plan for a season in the Championship probably curtailed to 27 games.

We are in a perilous financial situation but so is every other club in the division.

There is no reason why we can't compete and gain promotion on the pitch rather than through the boardroom or courtroom.

Absolutely. Although will be much harder now with Hearts in the league. I predict a runaway leader like we had with united this season unfortunately. But maybe we can get to work on some signings now.

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22 minutes ago, lightlamp2 said:

Absolutely. Although will be much harder now with Hearts in the league. I predict a runaway leader like we had with united this season unfortunately. But maybe we can get to work on some signings now.

Think they've dumped a ton of high earners/class players because of relegation, so I think we're in with a shout of the title...

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I think this story still has a bit to run ... maybe to UEFA and/or ICAS especially after the ruling in France.

It may come to nothing in the end but if Hearts do end up in the championship alongside us, whilst seeking any legal means to stay in the Premiership it could force them to lose focus and maybe take a while to get going when things restart. We are notorious slow starters so if we manage to prepare properly and come out of the start gates quickly for once we could do well, especially if the season is indeed shortened to 27 games.

 

Seems I was right about the story having more to run based on lightlamp2's link above.  I wish Hearts all the success they can get from this. Not only because it would benefit ICT - and I would be lying if I said that didn't matter, it does - but also because it is the right thing to do. Hearts, Partick, Stranraer, Brora and Kelty are all victims here and no league body should ever seek to disadvantage its members like this when its aim is to foster the game for the good and benefit of ALL of its members. Here's hoping that Hearts are successful and in the process they take down Doncaster and all his useless cronies in the process. 

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I fear that the action will fail. The position is different to France in that, in France, the decision was imposed on the clubs whereas here it was something that was decided democratically by a vote in which all member clubs had a say.

Yes, there was something distinctly dodgy about one of the votes cast but I fear that that alone will not be enough for a court or tribunal to overturn the decision.

However  we may still benefit in that the cost of action may cripple Hearts, send them into administration and with it the ensuing points deduction making the next Championship campaign a much more level playing field.

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Surely Hearts will just be looking for compensation now for missed money being in the Championship. I hope they win. 

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4 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

I fear that the action will fail. The position is different to France in that, in France, the decision was imposed on the clubs whereas here it was something that was decided democratically by a vote in which all member clubs had a say.

Yes, there was something distinctly dodgy about one of the votes cast but I fear that that alone will not be enough for a court or tribunal to overturn the decision.

However  we may still benefit in that the cost of action may cripple Hearts, send them into administration and with it the ensuing points deduction making the next Championship campaign a much more level playing field.

Belgium had a vote among clubs if i remember correctly. And they have also had it overturned in court.

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There are 3 scenarios now. 

1. Hearts mount a case against league. League makes an executive decision and decides to reconstruct (least damaging)

2. Hearts take league to court, football is delayed for some time. Many clubs are severly struggling. Hearts lose case and must repay liabilities. Hearts suffer and potentially lots of clubs may go to the wall.

 

3. Hearts win the case, football is delayed. League/clubs must pay liabilities/compensation to Hearts and sky for delay in league start. Everyone loses out, most damaging.

Surely as soon as Hearts case is taken against the league they will have to choose scenario 1.

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Partick have announced that they will not be joining Hearts in raising legal action.

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56 minutes ago, Stirling Observer said:

There are 3 scenarios now. 

1. Hearts mount a case against league. League makes an executive decision and decides to reconstruct (least damaging)

2. Hearts take league to court, football is delayed for some time. Many clubs are severly struggling. Hearts lose case and must repay liabilities. Hearts suffer and potentially lots of clubs may go to the wall.

 

3. Hearts win the case, football is delayed. League/clubs must pay liabilities/compensation to Hearts and sky for delay in league start. Everyone loses out, most damaging.

Surely as soon as Hearts case is taken against the league they will have to choose scenario 1.

Some clubs may indeed feel pressure to cave in and change their minds as a result of the threat.

However, given that only 16 clubs out of 42 were in favour this morning and that 75% of clubs need to be in favour  including 11 out of 12 Premiership clubs, I don't see enough of them changing their stance to carry the day.

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Wonder if James Anderson regrets his hand-out to the clubs now.

He should have kept it for his club, Hearts.

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This vote shows what little ambition so many clubs have.  The 14:10:10:10 set up would have meant that each season no less than 8 clubs would be playing in a higher division than will now be the case.  Together with the fact that those who voted against the proposal voted for the forced relegation of other clubs, today's vote really shows Scottish football in a very bad light.  No doubt those clubs who voted against the proposal will be justifying their position on the grounds of "now is not the time for reconstruction", "we need to focus on dealing with the financial crisis", "we need unity at this time".  We could have had unity and we could have combined it with decency and ambition.  But the truth is that these clubs have voted for some narrow and in some cases, misguided, notion of self interest and Scottish football will be the worse for it.

 

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4 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

This vote shows what little ambition so many clubs have.  The 14:10:10:10 set up would have meant that each season no less than 8 clubs would be playing in a higher division than will now be the case.  Together with the fact that those who voted against the proposal voted for the forced relegation of other clubs, today's vote really shows Scottish football in a very bad light.  No doubt those clubs who voted against the proposal will be justifying their position on the grounds of "now is not the time for reconstruction", "we need to focus on dealing with the financial crisis", "we need unity at this time".  We could have had unity and we could have combined it with decency and ambition.  But the truth is that these clubs have voted for some narrow and in some cases, misguided, notion of self interest and Scottish football will be the worse for it.

 

image.png.996d27c44f78c054a526a5f4fbcecc16.png

 

And lets not forget this!

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Why should clubs cut there cloth and lose out on much needed money to save Hearts, Partick and Stranraer from relegation? The majority of clubs voted to end the league on current points. Null and void was more harmful and finishing the league was not an option. What else could of been done. How can anyone think that Hearts taking legal action is a good thing? Hearts have very little success off winning in court anyway it seems. The EFL have followed suit and completed their leagues the same way the SPFL did. Clubs can now sort there budgets out and start preparing for the season ahead when and if it starts. End off!

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3 minutes ago, GogglesWalter said:

Why should clubs cut there cloth and lose out on much needed money to save Hearts, Partick and Stranraer from relegation? The majority of clubs voted to end the league on current points. Null and void was more harmful and finishing the league was not an option. What else could of been done. How can anyone think that Hearts taking legal action is a good thing? Hearts have very little success off winning in court anyway it seems. The EFL have followed suit and completed their leagues the same way the SPFL did. Clubs can now sort there budgets out and start preparing for the season ahead when and if it starts. End off!

How much money were lower league clubs projected to lose from the proposed 10 team league structure versus the current structure of 10 team leagues? 

 

How much extra money do clubs now have thanks to the generosity of a hearts backing philanthropist?

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17 minutes ago, lightlamp2 said:

image.png.996d27c44f78c054a526a5f4fbcecc16.png

 

And lets not forget this!

Yes and we all know what Roy Macgregor is really like!

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9 minutes ago, lightlamp2 said:

How much money were lower league clubs projected to lose from the proposed 10 team league structure versus the current structure of 10 team leagues? 

 

How much extra money do clubs now have thanks to the generosity of a hearts backing philanthropist?

I dont know the precise numbers but obviously the sky tv deal has been devalued by 7million. Not sure how that affected the lower leagues but the lower leagues wouldn't of truly been the issue. It's the SPL prize money that would of been diluted by obviously going from 12 to 14 teams. Combine that with the loss of gate money and corporate packages it's a big hit. Also add the cost of COVID-19 testing. Why would clubs want to take a financial hit to save teams who were relegated. The clubs and leagues have backed that up. Let's move on. 

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38 minutes ago, GogglesWalter said:

Why should clubs cut there cloth and lose out on much needed money to save Hearts, Partick and Stranraer from relegation? The majority of clubs voted to end the league on current points. Null and void was more harmful and finishing the league was not an option. What else could of been done. How can anyone think that Hearts taking legal action is a good thing? Hearts have very little success off winning in court anyway it seems. The EFL have followed suit and completed their leagues the same way the SPFL did. Clubs can now sort there budgets out and start preparing for the season ahead when and if it starts. End off!

The EFL did indeed do a similar thing with their lower divisions but retained a bit more sporting integrity by preserving the play offs for the clubs who were occupying those play off positions on merit.

It would not have saved Hearts, Partick or Stranraer but should have been something we ought to have considered more seriously here.

As far as our game's administration is concerned  this whole debacle really ought to be the final straw.

The current administration is forever tainted by past and current blunders, whether contrived or accidental, and should be dismissed from Neil Doncaster down and replaced by those more competent and less tainted. 

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6 minutes ago, GogglesWalter said:

I dont know the precise numbers but obviously the sky tv deal has been devalued by 7million. Not sure how that affected the lower leagues but the lower leagues wouldn't of truly been the issue. It's the SPL prize money that would of been diluted by obviously going from 12 to 14 teams. Combine that with the loss of gate money and corporate packages it's a big hit. Also add the cost of COVID-19 testing. Why would clubs want to take a financial hit to save teams who were relegated. The clubs and leagues have backed that up. Let's move on. 

There is no such thing as the SPL, but pedantry aside, I fail to see how the monies would have been diluted. The sponsorship model has always been similar .... There's a really high percentage for finishing in 1st or 2nd place of the Premiership then the prize money drops considerably for third. After that it drops by about 2% per position, takes another dive to the amount given to the top of the 1st and then drops by a certain percentage through each position again through the rest of the SPFL.  With the same 44 teams the distribution would remain similar and is more dependent on the amount of sponsorship than the breakdown of the leagues. That's assuming the SPFL have stuck to this model that has been used over many years and multiple league sponsors and not changed it for next season.

As for the other stuff, personally, I think it is irrelevant as regardless of league setup next season things will have to change. stadium capacity, limitation on max occupancy of hospitality suites or boxes, amount of corporate sponsors, etc., etc., etc., I would argue that smaller clubs who dont fill their grounds or have fewer corporate sponsors might suffer less as creating a space that is workable under whatever the new normal will be may require less effort. For us, with less than 50% capacity used we should be able to space out our support a bit more even if it does mean some people may have to move. That will not be so easy at other clubs who have a large number of season ticket holders.  With respect to COVID testing, thats also irrelevant as whatever measures are required will be required regardless of how many teams are in a division.  

 

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Totally stunned that these clubs aren't falling over themselves to save Hearts after Budge said there was too many of them a few years back and wanted the league set up changed to get rid of some of them.

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If a 27 game season is planned for the Championship, that means 2 home games against some teams but just 1 against others. We could get Hearts and Dundee at home just once, which would be a disadvantage. 

Surely it would be fairer to split after 18 games into 2 mini leagues, top 5 and bottom 5 so a 26 game league with the same balance of home and away games. 

Downside is that it would mean 6 games against 1 or 2 teams if we make the play offs but that is how it is in a normal season anyway. 

Just a thought to make things fairer, if that word is in the Scottish football dictionary. 

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1 hour ago, RiG said:

Totally stunned that these clubs aren't falling over themselves to save Hearts after Budge said there was too many of them a few years back and wanted the league set up changed to get rid of some of them.

And in the process relegate Stranraer and leave them with no players on contract!

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