Sturgeon v Salmond

[Yngwie 3,886]

I’d be interested to hear the thoughts of SNP supporters on this increasingly murky saga. Who’s lying?

[+IBM 1,391]

We will have to wait and find out but it's certain to damage the party.  I think Salmond is a dangerous man who likes the power and would like to be back in charge of the party.

As far as I am concerned I want an independent Scotland and will vote the best way to get that but not sure if I would always support the SNP and am not a member of the party.

[+Robert 1,045]

It’s interesting timing with the Election due in May, although there are indications it will be delayed.

I’m not an SNP supporter so possibly not best placed to comment, but my instinct is that Sturgeon will be playing it pretty straight whereas Salmond will have more of a selective memory. 

I may have that totally wrong, but the issue and publicity may influence how people vote at the Election depending on how messy things get.

It is notable that the SNP Chair of the Committee reviewing this sordid episode has been very critical of the Government not cooperating with the inquiry.

Then there is the fact that Sturgeon’s husband is the Chief Executive of the SNP, with some finding it hard to believe they were not discussing the situation when it was taking place, and the alleged differences in their evidence.

I just hope the real truth does come out, whatever it turns out to be, and that it does not distract the Government from taking the right actions to fight the worsening situations, both health and economic, stemming from the pandemic  

 

Edited January 9 by Robert

[+Caley Mad In Berks 1,323]

Surprisingly, this doesn't get a lot of press coverage down here in darkest Englandshire!  I'd appreciate someone telling me where I can read up about it, background etc,  where it has reached, and what might happen next. 

[Yngwie 3,886]

If the initial events had been happening in the bedroom of Downing St rather than Bute House and all the subsequent political shenanigans involved the uk government rather than ours, we’d all have heard of little else over the last few years! It’s  possibly the greatest political scandal of our lifetime but the full truth isn’t really in the public domain yet. I’m not sure where you’d start on this one, it’s quite a saga.

Edited January 9 by Yngwie

[+Robert 1,045]

These articles may help you Caley Mad:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/alex-salmond-accuses-nicola-sturgeon-of-submitting-untrue-evidence-to-sex-assault-inquiry-as-she-rejects-false-claims-12182755

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-55593864

Edited January 9 by Robert

[+Caley Mad In Berks 1,323]

Thanks, Robert, I'll plough through them in due course.

[Kingsmills 5,796]

I will reserve my thoughts until I hear both give evidence to the enquiry.

I think it will prove to be a blow to Sturgeon, to the SNP and to the independence cause.

However, I don't think it will prove to be the fatal blow that the Unionists are hoping for.

However, I do think that a more appropriate topic heading would be Salmond v Sturgeon as the fight is one picked by the former First Minister fuelled by his ego and vanity.

As a footnote, I would add that, although it is very widely known who the women complaining about AS's conduct are it remains a contempt of court to identify them and anyone posting on this thread should refrain from doing so even, as I suspect, many on here know who they are.

Edited January 10 by Kingsmills

[dougiedanger 452]

I guess this is all that Tory Unionists have to cling to now.  🤣

[Kingsmills 5,796]

8 hours ago, dougiedanger said:

I guess this is all that Tory Unionists have to cling to now.  🤣

That and the skill, wit and wisdom of Douglas Ross!

[TheMantis 1,645]

On 1/9/2021 at 1:22 PM, Robert said:

It’s interesting timing with the Election due in May, although there are indications it will be delayed.

I’m not an SNP supporter so possibly not best placed to comment, but my instinct is that Sturgeon will be playing it pretty straight whereas Salmond will have more of a selective memory. 

 

Funny you should say that - my missus hoovers up all the stuff on twitface and reads all the blogs, and she’s convinced that Sturgeon’s in deep doodoo. But why is AS doing this now? 
No doubt there’ll be some damage to the Indy cause, but not much. The unionist/media/tory narrative is that there’s this nasty wee group (the SNP) trying to sell the Scottish people something that nobody wants. In reality the Indy movement is far, far larger than the SNP and feel that they are dragging their feet, and asking if they really want independence or if they’re just happy having careers in government (or even opposition, like the UK Labour Party have been for decades). Many people are happy to lend the SNP their vote as they’re the most likely vehicle to hitch to. If you look at  photos from any of the AUOB marches there’s hardly a trace of SNP yellow to be seen, just solid blue.

[+Robert 1,045]

1 hour ago, TheMantis said:

Funny you should say that - my missus hoovers up all the stuff on twitface and reads all the blogs, and she’s convinced that Sturgeon’s in deep doodoo. But why is AS doing this now? 

That’s what keeps life interesting, as we all have different views on different things.

I just hope the real truth comes out, whatever it turns out to be.

[Oddquine 380]

It isn't AS doing "this" whatever "this" is "now"...it was NS and the SG doing it in 2017/18 and it only came to court  in 2020.  Given AS was found not guilty on all but one of the charges, and not proven on another at his trial, the logical person would have assumed he was not guilty of the charges, or at the very least, that the police, despite putting a LOT of men onto digging up dirt on him for a long time and despite Moorov's Doctrine, which encourages women to come forward by making the name of the accused public, while offering anonymity to the accusers, couldn't come up with a decent prosecution .....but ever since, the women, and the SG funded Rape Crisis Centre, have been, given half a chance, more or less proclaiming the judge and jury were asses for not finding him guilty, the SG "investigation" into the Scottish government's handling of the original complaints against Mr Salmond has turned into an embarrassing farce to the extent that it has simply become yet another way to attack AS.  What is he meant to do? Just stand there and take it?  Really?  His situation just confirms the reason that I think that if the accusers get anoymity  forever..then so should the accused until he/she is found guilty...that is equality. after all.

For the first time since I was old enough to vote in 1969, and despite having been an active SNP branch member/office-bearer for nearly forty years after that, I won't be voting SNP in my constituency this time round....not because I don't want independence.....but because I don't want independence at any cost.....and too big a cost in my opinion, given the cult of Nicola which exists, is the distinct possibility of the SNP being in charge of negotiations with Westminster( bearing in mind that farcical "Growth Commission" production) and of forming the first independent Scottish Government, if we use the currebt electoral system, allowing them to continue with their biology denying social engineering by implementing any idiotic brainfart they can term "progessive".

[Kingsmills 5,796]

3 hours ago, Oddquine said:

It isn't AS doing "this" whatever "this" is "now"...it was NS and the SG doing it in 2017/18 and it only came to court  in 2020.  Given AS was found not guilty on all but one of the charges, and not proven on another at his trial, the logical person would have assumed he was not guilty of the charges, or at the very least, that the police, despite putting a LOT of men onto digging up dirt on him for a long time and despite Moorov's Doctrine, which encourages women to come forward by making the name of the accused public, while offering anonymity to the accusers, couldn't come up with a decent prosecution .....but ever since, the women, and the SG funded Rape Crisis Centre, have been, given half a chance, more or less proclaiming the judge and jury were asses for not finding him guilty, the SG "investigation" into the Scottish government's handling of the original complaints against Mr Salmond has turned into an embarrassing farce to the extent that it has simply become yet another way to attack AS.  What is he meant to do? Just stand there and take it?  Really?  His situation just confirms the reason that I think that if the accusers get anoymity  forever..then so should the accused until he/she is found guilty...that is equality. after all.

For the first time since I was old enough to vote in 1969, and despite having been an active SNP branch member/office-bearer for nearly forty years after that, I won't be voting SNP in my constituency this time round....not because I don't want independence.....but because I don't want independence at any cost.....and too big a cost in my opinion, given the cult of Nicola which exists, is the distinct possibility of the SNP being in charge of negotiations with Westminster( bearing in mind that farcical "Growth Commission" production) and of forming the first independent Scottish Government, if we use the currebt electoral system, allowing them to continue with their biology denying social engineering by implementing any idiotic brainfart they can term "progessive".

AS was found not guilty because the jury were not convinced of his guilt 'beyond reasonable doubt' quite rightly a very high standard.

The civil service led enquiry into alleged misconduct was flawed because a senior civil servant made a serious blunder which has been acknowledged.

I too have been a member of the SNP for longer than I care to remember, since before I was old enough to vote, or legally have a pint in the Hay Loft for that matter  and had a great deal of time for AS as a consummate politician although always a self promoter.

I am fairly closely acquainted with a number of elected councillors, MSPs and MPs and can assure you that there is no cult of Sturgeon. Merely a deep sadness that there has been an internecine split which has become an unhelpful distraction.

Personally, I don't think it will adversely affect either the SNP vote in May or the prospects of independence as many people will be voting SNP, as opposed to for the SNP, despite having no great regard for the party, or NS for that matter, as they quite rightly see an SNP majority at Holyrood as the best, perhaps the only, vehicle to  independence.

It is not these allegations that effectively ended AS's political career but his ego driven decision to host a show on the Putin propaganda vehicle that is Russia today.

Edited Sunday at 09:07 PM by Kingsmills

[Yngwie 3,886]

I’m not sure your final statement is valid. Working (indirectly) for Putin may have caused some embarrassment and raised eyebrows in political circles but I don’t think that many voters either know or care.

In contrast, everyone knows about the trial for sex crimes, and that public humiliation damaged him immensely and destroyed his reputation. Certainly my respect for him as a politician and a human being dropped considerably during that trial, despite him being cleared, and rightly or wrongly I think that is a common view.

[Oddquine 380]

Kingsmills, I'm not holding my breath waiting for indyref2, because on current SNP enthusiasm for independence, bar as the occasional sound-bite to remind us they are entitled to all the pro-indy votes, being the only show in town (much in the way that Labour felt entitled to all the working-class vote..and see where taking their vote for granted has got them  now).....I don't see indy2 happening in my lifetime.  If the SNP decide to make the 2021 election a plebiscite on independence...then I will vote SNP in the constituency....but if not, I won't cast a first vote at all.

I was never keen on Alex Salmond, but did think Nicola, when she was a teenager at annual Conference, was a rising star, so was happy enough when she was anointed SNP leader. Seven years on, and I have gained the impression that her star has risen as far as she wants it to go and she is now all about consolidating power as the big fish in the Scottish devolutionary pool, with full control over what used to be a member focused party.

 

[+Robert 1,045]

The London-based news broadcasts have caught up on the story over the last day or so.

It seems Salmond will appear before the Holyrood Committee on Friday and Sturgeon next week, with the Committee due to report by the end of March.

Seconds out, round 1......

Edited Wednesday at 10:27 PM by Robert

[Oddquine 380]

Given everything in AS's submission to the Committee which cites Aberdein and his trial evidence, and confirms Nicola lied to the Scottish Parliament has been redacted......we are still on course for the whitewash of the SG's actions they have been frantically working towards, as AS can't speak to anything the Committee hasn't published... because if it hasn't been published by the Committee, the evidence is not deemed to exist, however many times it appears on the internet in other places.  Nothing to do with protecting "vulnerable women" as far as I can see, (having a copy of both the submission and the SG redacted version)....much more to do with protecting Nicola.

I noted with interest that the FM who has previously refused to answer non-covid oriented questions at Covid Briefings was quite happy to use yesterday's Covid Briefing to say regarding AS that  he was “Found not guilty but that doesn’t mean the behaviour they complained of didn’t happen” and also pretty much said that AS wants to make claims without ever subjecting them to the proper scrutiny of the inquiry..when she knows damn well that anything which could finger her in any dubious actions has been removed from that scrutiny altogether. 

The whole "inquiry" is a farce for show, with the outcome, as far as I can see, decided in advance, given that, as far as Nicola is concerned, "co-operating fully" with the inquiry into the SG's handling of the allegations against AS  has translated into between 58 and 71  separate obstructions to the work of that committee.

What is she trying to hide?

[+Robert 1,045]

In many ways it is a side show, with the real issue being whatever conclusion James Hamilton QC draws.

I just hope the truth comes out, but sadly the whole episode is now casting Scotland in a very bad light.

We are even being compared to a “tin pot dictatorship”. 

The sooner this is over the better, as the Government has to focus on getting us through the pandemic and leading a recovery of the economy. 
 

[Kingsmills 5,796]

On 2/25/2021 at 12:40 PM, Robert said:

In many ways it is a side show, with the real issue being whatever conclusion James Hamilton QC draws.

I just hope the truth comes out, but sadly the whole episode is now casting Scotland in a very bad light.

We are even being compared to a “tin pot dictatorship”. 

The sooner this is over the better, as the Government has to focus on getting us through the pandemic and leading a recovery of the economy. 
 

I agree with you that the important conclusion will be that of the Hamilton Enquiry.

I wouldn't be too concerned about being called a tin pot dictatorship or banana republic for that matter. That is typical Unionist rhetoric whatever we do.

[Yngwie 3,886]

47 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

I wouldn't be too concerned about being called a tin pot dictatorship or banana republic for that matter. 

That is typical Unionist rhetoric

I wouldn’t call us a tinpot dictatorship, just a tinpot democracy! It’s an unfortunate consequence of having a dominant party in power for the long term, who can do pretty much anything and still get re-elected.

The way the machinery of the Scottish Government appears to have been deployed to block evidence, interfere with justice, prevent scrutiny, defy the will of the parliament and so on is scandalous, even before you consider the FM’s role or otherwise in all this. And it wasn’t a Unionist who was making those points today.

[+Caley Mad In Berks 1,323]

I watched all Salmonds 5+ hours of testimony to the Select committee this afternoon.  Fascinating stuff.  I don't particularly like him as an individual, but I must say his performance today was controlled, well prepared, and would not have done him any harm!  Can't wait to see the next episodes next week.  Queen Nicola will have to be at her best to do better. At this stage I think it is odds against her surviving.

[Yngwie 3,886]

She’s got enough support to survive, regardless of how damning the case against her is. I would expect her to announce that she will “reflect” on the criticisms that the committee will make, some of the players will be sacrificed to protect the queen bee, and instead of resigning she will stress the importance of her continuing to save us from the pandemic and then leave it to the electorate to decide in May if they want her to continue or not, safe in the knowledge of another victory, and then it’ll all be forgotten.

[+Robert 1,045]

1 hour ago, Caley Mad In Berks said:

I watched all Salmonds 5+ hours of testimony to the Select committee this afternoon.  Fascinating stuff.  I don't particularly like him as an individual, but I must say his performance today was controlled, well prepared, and would not have done him any harm!  Can't wait to see the next episodes next week.  Queen Nicola will have to be at her best to do better. At this stage I think it is odds against her surviving.

I watched it from around 1500 onwards so missed the first couple of hours.

It was only his side of the story but he was calm and collected and, I thought, he came across as sincere.

Some of the SNP members of the Committee seemed on “his side” too.

I hope the Sturgeon interview is televised but if it is on Wednesday it clashes with the Budget so may not get the same coverage.

I’d say round one to Salmond. 

[Yngwie 3,886]

Indeed. In one afternoon he landed far more blows on the SNP Scottish Government than the inept opposition parties and Scottish media have done in 14 years!