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14 minutes ago, Satan said:

By voting tactically, they are deciding their own future. A future without any more 'once in a generation ' referendums.🤣

 

 

 

The plural is referenda. For what it's worth, I agree that voting tactically is a perfectly legitimate tactic.

I would be very surprised if Alec Salmond goes quietly although, if he had any humility, he would have done so years ago.

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Simplified explanation - the number of constituency and regional votes are entered into a big spreadsheet and then the SNP are declared the winner!

They won 62 out of 73 constituencies. I can only dream of being rejected like that

There are thousands of Lib Dems who would rather vote Conservative than countenance the people of Scotland having the opportunity to decide on their own future.

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I’ve watched the BBC coverage since 1200 and they’ve done well.

Good to see more diversity amongst the MSPs.

After all that, +1 for the SNP, +2 for the Greens, -2 for Labour and -1 for the Lib Dem’s.

I doubt the SNP will be in a rush to start the referendum process, as there is no clear majority either way.

The poor performance by Douglas Ross did not impact the outcome, but his boss will have a big part in the indyref2 debate.

As the majority of MSPs are from pro-independence parties, if Boris digs in and blocks it, it will strengthen the likelihood of a yes vote.

Time will tell over the next five years.

 

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2 minutes ago, Robert said:

I’ve watched the BBC coverage since 1200 and they’ve done well.

Good to see more diversity amongst the MSPs.

After all that, +1 for the SNP, +2 for the Greens, -2 for Labour and -1 for the Lib Dem’s.

I doubt the SNP will be in a rush to start the referendum process, as there is no clear majority either way.

The poor performance by Douglas Ross did not impact the outcome, but his boss will have a big part in the indyref2 debate.

As the majority of MSPs are from pro-independence parties, if Boris digs in and blocks it, it will strengthen the likelihood of a yes vote.

Time will tell over the next five years.

 

The only people who were in a rush to start a referendum process straight away were the Alba Party and just look how that ended for them.

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32 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

The plural is referenda. For what it's worth, I agree that voting tactically is a perfectly legitimate tactic.

I would be very surprised if Alec Salmond goes quietly although, if he had any humility, he would have done so years ago.

If it was a different question then referenda would be correct, but it's not, it's the same referendum over again ad nauseum .

At 50/50 or even a few points either way the appetite for more disruption just isnt there.

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The focus needs to be on getting as good a recovery for the economy as possible from the pandemic, minimising job losses and taking steps to keep High Streets relevant. If they die, the impact will be ever lasting and remove jobs for our younger generations.

We need the parties to work collaboratively on putting the country in a good place, not being distracted by the constitution.

 

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1 hour ago, Satan said:

If it was a different question then referenda would be correct, but it's not, it's the same referendum over again ad nauseum .

At 50/50 or even a few points either way the appetite for more disruption just isnt there.

It would appear that there is such an appetite for half the population.

Should they bow to the will of the other half of the population who have no such appetite?

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But they will be hungry for a while as the SNP are clear that they will deal with the pandemic first.

Seemingly a lot of Green voters are not pro-independence so any referendum will be close, and potentially the election result overstates the support fo independence.

Personally, I believe that Boris is the trump card for independence supporters, as Cameron was previously.

Who knows??

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What’s amazing is that so much has changed since last time with Brexit, Boris, and Scotland’s 2nd and 3rd parties having new leaders - and yet the results and share of vote for all the main parties are almost unchanged. 

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But the key thing to take from all this is that in this referendum on a referendum, Scotland has once again rejected the SNP and their separatist agenda.  And yet we are faced with an FM pursuing indyref2 against the wishes of the majority of Scots and we again have to rely on a UK PM representing the views of the majority of us.

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3 hours ago, Yngwie said:

Scotland has once again rejected the SNP and their separatist agenda.

They won 62 out of 73 constituencies.

I can only dream of being rejected like that :wink:

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4 hours ago, Yngwie said:

But the key thing to take from all this is that in this referendum on a referendum, Scotland has once again rejected the SNP and their separatist agenda.  And yet we are faced with an FM pursuing indyref2 against the wishes of the majority of Scots and we again have to rely on a UK PM representing the views of the majority of us.

I am trying to work out if you have bee celebrating or drowning your sorrows Yngwie but I would love a few pints of what you have been on :drinking06:

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All I’m saying is that claims that indyref2 is the will of the people are false, as the majority of the people voted against it, yet again, and on matters relating to referendums it is the people that count, not the number of MSPs.
It would be hard for Boris to reject something the majority of Scots voted for but it’s much easier for him to reject the will of the Scottish Parliament seeing as the Scottish Government recently made a habit of doing so themselves.

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2 hours ago, dougiedanger said:

Wee Nicky will bring indy home.

Time will tell, but we’ve been hearing that for years and nothing happens except a bit of sabre rattling at party conferences and just before each election. She certainly knows how to stay in power.

What do you think the Scottish Government will deliver first, indyref2 or those 2 ferries? 😀

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19 hours ago, Yngwie said:

But the key thing to take from all this is that in this referendum on a referendum, Scotland has once again rejected the SNP and their separatist agenda.  And yet we are faced with an FM pursuing indyref2 against the wishes of the majority of Scots and we again have to rely on a UK PM representing the views of the majority of us.

You have a strange definition of 'rejection'

This was indeed something of a referendum on a referendum and, in that context, the SNP received the highest number of votes, the highest percentage of the votes and won the most constituency seats ever and we have the highest ever pro independence majority in the history of the parliament all on the back of, by a considerable margin, the highest turnout in history. 

To put that into context, if the same parties had been contesting a Westminster election, whilst the Greens would have sadly been denied any seats through the unfairness of the first past the post system, the SNP would have 552 seats, Conservatives 44 seats, Lib Dems 36 seats and Labour 18.

That would have been a far far higher proportion of seats and a far far greater majority than either Thatcher or Blair achieved at the height of their respective popularities and nobody would be arguing that they didn't have the clearest of democratic mandates to implement their clear manifesto policies.

I accept that the argument over whether Scotland should be an independent nation is still to be won and that the country is divided right down the middle about that.

However, the democratic argument over the right to hold a referendum has been decisively won and one can tell from the subtle change of tone from Downing Steeet that they know it 

There will be a referendum and the Scottish parliament will legislate for it once the immediate health, cultural and economic crisis is behind us.

My best guess is that the legislation will be passed in the latter part of next year with the plebiscite taking place in early to mid 2023 and will in the end be on the basis of a S30 agreement.

In the meantime, both governments need to cooperate on the basis of mutual respect to get us through the immediate crisis and focus firmly on that.

It would help if Douglas Ross and his cohorts would learn to drop the mantra 'Stop #Indyref2' and offer something more positive and constructive in the meantime.

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1 hour ago, dougiedanger said:

Was a wee joke, and am never going to respect any Tory.

Each to their own. 

I prefer to believe that you can almost always respect the other side of most debates while still passionately disagreeing with it and those putting it.

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I think I have indicated before that I believe Scotland will do better as part of the UK, and I also felt Scotland and the UK would do better as part of the EU.

That said, I do agree that there should be another referendum at some point during this parliamentary term given the pro-independence majority of MSPs elected.

The country is very split in this, and it could go either way. That’s why I believe that if Boris blocks it, or is seen to campaign in Scotland, it will increase the chances of a pro-independence vote.

An interesting few years ahead as the debate takes place. 

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One very clear feature of the election is the continuing decline of the Liberal Democrats as a credible political entity.

Not so very many years ago they were the third political force both North and South of the border and, as well as forming part of the first two Holyrood administrations, were later in power in Westminster in coalition with the Conservatives

Now they are almost irrelevant in the London parliament, struggling to reach double figures and, only just, holding off the DUP for the dubious honour of being the fourth party.

Things are even worse now in Edinburgh. Being reduced to only four seats means that they lose official party status with no place on the front bench, no automatic questions at FMQS and no right to a place on the, all Important, parliamentary committees. Very probably no invite to any Leader's debate in the next election in five years time. For goodness sake, they came within just a few hundred votes of losing Shetland ! Orkney and Shetland have been Liberal and then Lib Dem since Joe Grimmond was a lad and before I and almost everyone else on this site was born.

Russell Johnston, Joe Grimmond and Charles Kennedy will be turning in their graves. I was going to add Jeremy Thorpe and Cyril Smith but decided perhaps best not to go there!

Has this latest reversal ensured that the decline is terminal with no way back ? It's certainly more than a third party squeeze.

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The interesting thing about the constituency map IBM posted is that Scotland will be a fair bit smaller when the border regions choose to remain in the UK.

Even more interesting is the patchwork map that arises if you show where support for independence is below 50% rather than just which party got most votes. You then have the tantalising prospect of even Edinburgh Central, home of the parliament and Bute House, not being in Scotland.

The SNP will of course respect the right of the people to choose their own future because that’s what this is all about, isn’t it? How many thousand times have we heard the line “dragged out of the (European) union against its will”? Same principle applies to any part of Scotland that doesn’t want to leave the UK, they should be granted a referendum and a right to choose. I look forward to the SNP folk getting tangled up in their hypocrisy trying to argue against the very principle that is their raison d’etre.

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