Financial results

[GogglesWalter]

I don't see how we can continue to operate successfully as a full time professional club with these financial losses year in year out. Surely SG and JR roles can not be justified with our current financial resources. 

[hislopsoffsideagain]

Club accounts for 2020/21 are tough to analyze because of Covid losses - and also because of the funding clubs received from the government as a result.

 

As regards ICT's own situation, I would put forward this question - How many full-time clubs in Scotland are not running either at a loss or close to the wind, year-in, year-out?

 

At the top end you have Rangers and Celtic. Rangers have run up extraordinary losses since 2012 and probably require Champions League football to make a profit. Celtic either need Champions League football or to see a player for an eight figure fee to cover the shortfall.

 

In last season's Premiership there was also Aberdeen (wealthy American backer), Hearts (fan-owned but getting more than £3m a year in 'donations' from a wealthy supporter), Hibs (wealthy American backer), Dundee United (wealthy American backer), Dundee (wealthy American backer) and Ross County (uncle Roy). That's six more clubs not really living within their means. The other four are St. Mirren, Motherwell, St. Johnstone and Livingston, each of whom are very frugal and each of whom could quite conceivably end up stuck in the Championship for a sustained period like us.

 

In last season's Championship there was Kilmarnock (who will have run up a big loss to get back into the top flight). The other full-time clubs in our league with similar budgets to ours were Hamilton, Partick, Raith and Dunfermline, none of whom are raking it in. Ayr, Morton and QOS I think had even tighter purse-strings.

 

Below us were Queen's Park (wealthy backer), Airdrie (who have a hybrid of PT and FT players) and Falkirk (who are a basketcase).

 

My belief is that unless you have a lot of outside money coming in, then a club of our size can't currently turn a profit unless they are in the Premiership and probably punching above their weight (ie in the top six). It's also my belief that the only way to make a small fortune out of a Scottish football club is to start with a big fortune.

 

The two concerns going forward for us and clubs like us are 1) that directors at some point can no longer be persuaded to cover the shortfall (which seems unlikely but can never be ruled out) and 2) that we get overtaken by smaller clubs who do have money. Queen's Park are a potential example; Cove Rangers (who are currently part-time) could be another in the future.

 

The only answers to our problems are 1) getting promoted or 2) getting our own Roy MacGregor. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by hislopsoffsideagain

[+roarer]

2 hours ago, STFU said:

I don't understand your question.

You asked the question, that " it feels like we've been taking the ****no?"

So I asked from whom?

[Kingsmills]

1 hour ago, hislopsoffsideagain said:

Club accounts for 2020/21 are tough to analyze because of Covid losses - and also because of the funding clubs received from the government as a result.

 

As regards ICT's own situation, I would put forward this question - How many full-time clubs in Scotland are not running either at a loss or close to the wind, year-in, year-out?

 

At the top end you have Rangers and Celtic. Rangers have run up extraordinary losses since 2012 and probably require Champions League football to make a profit. Celtic either need Champions League football or to see a player for an eight figure fee to cover the shortfall.

 

In last season's Premiership there was also Aberdeen (wealthy American backer), Hearts (fan-owned but getting more than £3m a year in 'donations' from a wealthy supporter), Hibs (wealthy American backer), Dundee United (wealthy American backer), Dundee (wealthy American backer) and Ross County (uncle Roy). That's six more clubs not really living within their means. The other four are St. Mirren, Motherwell, St. Johnstone and Livingston, each of whom are very frugal and each of whom could quite conceivably end up stuck in the Championship for a sustained period like us.

 

In last season's Championship there was Kilmarnock (who will have run up a big loss to get back into the top flight). The other full-time clubs in our league with similar budgets to ours were Hamilton, Partick, Raith and Dunfermline, none of whom are raking it in. Ayr, Morton and QOS I think had even tighter purse-strings.

 

Below us were Queen's Park (wealthy backer), Airdrie (who have a hybrid of PT and FT players) and Falkirk (who are a basketcase).

 

My belief is that unless you have a lot of outside money coming in, then a club of our size can't currently turn a profit unless they are in the Premiership and probably punching above their weight (ie in the top six). It's also my belief that the only way to make a small fortune out of a Scottish football club is to start with a big fortune.

 

The two concerns going forward for us and clubs like us are 1) that directors at some point can no longer be persuaded to cover the shortfall (which seems unlikely but can never be ruled out) and 2) that we get overtaken by smaller clubs who do have money. Queen's Park are a potential example; Cove Rangers (who are currently part-time) could be another in the future.

 

The only answers to our problems are 1) getting promoted or 2) getting our own Roy MacGregor. 

Given the the choice, can I please opt for the former?

Edited June 8, 2022 by Kingsmills

[STFU]

1 hour ago, roarer said:

You asked the question, that " it feels like we've been taking the ****no?"

So I asked from whom?

Everyone.  Credit where credit is due, our CEO can fair spin a tale and suck people in.

On the further subject of directors funding losses.  I wonder if the current crop are done and this is why we are looking to recruit further in this area?

[bdu98196]

Every time I see mention of financial results, it reminds me of this little gem that was thrown out there and the toys from the pram by a board member when questioned on the financial running of the club and how exactly an increased income would be utilised to improve sustainability. Seems like little has changed and the only hope is a bigger begging bowl.

[Kingsmills]

Given that the results are improving, albeit marginally, and are pretty much in line with expectation, I don't understand the depth of negativity from some posters.

[STFU]

Woohoo, we've got nearly a million of debt and all signs are that we continue to spend beyond our means.

We're so lucky that the much talked about deal with ILI will be enough to wipe that out so we can start running up debt from zero again.

Praise be to Jesus, what a time to be alive and supporting the mighty Caley Jags.