Arbroath at home Saturday

[Jaggernaut]

It was a better display than the Morton fiasco, but that wouldn't be hard. Dodds again plays the wrong system, he is a clueless tactician. He went with Mckay and Oakley up front again! That obviously didn't work against Morton, so why persist with it? Mckay works his socks off, as he does constantly, and was unlucky not to score on a couple of occasions, but I just don't think Oakley gives us enough to justify his place in the eleven. What we needed was more in midfield, and I was surprised to see Boyd dropped to the bench, as he looked quite bright against Morton. We played our best football when we got the ball down and passed it at pace, our goal came from such a move, but too many times we reverted to Hoofball, and you could see Mckay's frustration when the CB kept beating him in the air.

Carson did slip up for their goal, but I still think Dodds is at fault for this, he has never replaced Rooney, and that's a few seasons now. Carson is a combative box to box midfielder, who was put in at RB when we had no cover there, and because he played quite well, Dodds seems to think that we don't need to look for a RB now! With Allardice out, the midfield needs to be strong and flexible, and we do miss Carson playing on his actual position, it must be frustrating for him.

Shaw was my MOTM, his best game for ICT, I thought Delaney again stood out, and Welsh gives us that cool head in the middle of the park.

I have said on many occasions that Dodds was the easy choice for the club, just as Robbo was. The criteria for the managers job seems to be, are you a coach? Do you live locally? You're hired. So, are there any other coaches about who live in the area? And does anyone know when Dodds contract runs to?

[Satan]

Unlucky not to score.

How often can this be the case?

Stop wasting chance after chance , we don't have our strongest team on the park - true, we don't get our tactics right for our opponents - somewhat true.

But we have had enough chances in the last two games to win plenty of matches.

Its becoming obvious to the rest of the league that we are perhaps good for one goal a game - score more than that and we are beatable.

Maybe we need to employ a goalscoring consultant now. 

 

[Jaggernaut]

1 hour ago, Satan said:

Unlucky not to score.

How often can this be the case?

Stop wasting chance after chance , we don't have our strongest team on the park - true, we don't get our tactics right for our opponents - somewhat true.

But we have had enough chances in the last two games to win plenty of matches.

Its becoming obvious to the rest of the league that we are perhaps good for one goal a game - score more than that and we are beatable.

Maybe we need to employ a goalscoring consultant now. 

 

I said to my son yesterday that there wouldn't be a lot of goals in the game, as we struggle to score one, and if Arbroath scores first, we would be lucky to get a goal back, but I could never see us scoring two. Far too many times, we seem to want too much time to get a shot off, it should be shoot on sight, but going by the pre-match shooting that they do, their shooting at goal is one thing that needs a lot of work. 

[+snorbens_caleyman]

1 hour ago, Jaggernaut said:

I said to my son yesterday that there wouldn't be a lot of goals in the game, as we struggle to score one, and if Arbroath scores first, we would be lucky to get a goal back, but I could never see us scoring two. Far too many times, we seem to want too much time to get a shot off, it should be shoot on sight, but going by the pre-match shooting that they do, their shooting at goal is one thing that needs a lot of work. 

Indeed.  Our main problem since Billy Mckay left for the first time, in early 2015, has been that we have not had a reliable, consistent goalscorer.  And that includes the twice that Billy has been back.  Yes, I know that players who fit that description are few and far between, but it should be a priority.

And, having seen a lot of streamed games during the last two seasons, I know that I've said a few times that basic shooting practice is badly required.

[SteveA]

We lack any creativity or cutting edge in the final third of the game. Even if we do create anything we don't look like anyone will finish the chances. I feel sorry for Billy Mckay. He works so hard but he must get so frustrated by the long high balls that get punted his way. Oakley looks a much poorer player than his previous spell and Doran seems to want to turn back rather than take on his opponent. Arbroath were so bad yesterday in my view which makes it more frustrating we didn't win the game.

[tm4tj]

 

[old caley girl]

8 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

It was a better display than the Morton fiasco, but that wouldn't be hard. Dodds again plays the wrong system, he is a clueless tactician. He went with Mckay and Oakley up front again! That obviously didn't work against Morton, so why persist with it? Mckay works his socks off, as he does constantly, and was unlucky not to score on a couple of occasions, but I just don't think Oakley gives us enough to justify his place in the eleven. What we needed was more in midfield, and I was surprised to see Boyd dropped to the bench, as he looked quite bright against Morton. We played our best football when we got the ball down and passed it at pace, our goal came from such a move, but too many times we reverted to Hoofball, and you could see Mckay's frustration when the CB kept beating him in the air.

Carson did slip up for their goal, but I still think Dodds is at fault for this, he has never replaced Rooney, and that's a few seasons now. Carson is a combative box to box midfielder, who was put in at RB when we had no cover there, and because he played quite well, Dodds seems to think that we don't need to look for a RB now! With Allardice out, the midfield needs to be strong and flexible, and we do miss Carson playing on his actual position, it must be frustrating for him.

Shaw was my MOTM, his best game for ICT, I thought Delaney again stood out, and Welsh gives us that cool head in the middle of the park.

I have said on many occasions that Dodds was the easy choice for the club, just as Robbo was. The criteria for the managers job seems to be, are you a coach? Do you live locally? You're hired. So, are there any other coaches about who live in the area? And does anyone know when Dodds contract runs to?

I believe it runs our summer 2023

[Douglas Mackenzie]

I think we had so many chances to kill the game and never took them because we tried to pass or walk the ball into the net.Why not try some shooting on site that's what they practice before the game, although some of that shooting leaves a lot to desired.I just feel that a the dropped points will come back and bite us again.Why could we not have started the game as we did the start of second half.

[tm4tj]

Fine margins. Michael McKenna denied by the post after a great lay off from Kieran Shanks pic.twitter.com/3TsKzbWwvJ

— Arbroath FC (@ArbroathFC) November 6, 2022

[+DoofersDad]

If we had all of the squad fit, I wonder how many of Saturday's starting line up would have been starting - and in the position they played?  Not very many, that's for sure.  Missing the central pairing of Deas and Devine together with Allardice is a big loss defensively, whilst the loss of the creativity of Dan MacKay, MacGregor and Samuels limits our attacking options.  In addition we are without the often under appreciated Shane Sutherland whose importance to the team is reflected by the fact that he was the players' player of the season last year.

In those circumstances, I thought we played pretty well on Saturday.  Mackay was rarely troubled in goal, we played some good passing football and created some decent chances.  Shaw, in particular, had an excellent game.  No doubt with the return of some of the injured players we will create more chances, but the question is, will we take them?  Billy Mckay remains our main striker, he works his socks off and has scored 5 goals in all competitions this year, but his conversion rate is just 14% .  Oakley has played in 17 games and scored just 2 goals with no assists.  He's only had 7 shots in those 17 games.  Doran is 7th on our all time scoring list but in 16 games he has only scored 1 goal with 1 assist.  Boyd isn't shy at having a pop at goal but just 1 goal from 20 shots is a poor return.

Of the players out, only Samuels looks as though he might contribute a reasonable number of goals in a season and therefore it seems to me that we are over reliant on Mckay to get the goals.  There is a lot of pressure on him and he gets a lot of attention from defenders, so we really do need others to step up and get their shooting boots on.  We also need to be sharper in our attacks and have a bit more movement in the box to help Mckay find a bit more space.  Given our injuries, we have performed pretty well defensively and in midfield.  What we need now is to be more clinical in creating and taking chances up front.

Edited November 7, 2022 by DoofersDad

[RiG]

We were dreadful for long periods. Absolutely nothing going on in the final third of the pitch. Too often we tried to force balls wide towards Shaw and Doran instead of trying to patiently work the ball forward. 

When we did this in the second half it coincided with our best spell of the game. Then Carson's error let Arbroath back in and we resorted back to route one with Dodds also taking off Oakley (makes sense) and we were second best thereafter. Arbroath could easily have won it. 

Delaney looked good, Shaw had a good game and Mckay worked his socks off as usual. Beyond that though... 

[Jaggernaut]

I could never understand why we never took a punt on Kane Hester, he was the strike partner of Sutherland at Elgin, and in my opinion was the more natural striker of the two. I wasn't overly impressed when we re-signed Sutherland, but he went on to have a good season and I'm the first to admit that he won me round with his displays. I still think if we have any aspirations of getting promotion this season, we need someone to score goals, so If it was up to me, I'd try and get Hester in the January transfer window. At the moment, we are lucky to be looking at scoring one goal a game, and if we ever go behind, I just don't see us scoring two. Oakley was taken in as a striker, but his goal rate is not good enough for a team thinking of promotion. 

[Douglas Mackenzie]

On 11/6/2022 at 1:22 PM, Douglas Mackenzie said:

I think we had so many chances to kill the game and never took them because we tried to pass or walk the ball into the net.Why not try some shooting on site that's what they practice before the game, although some of that shooting leaves a lot to desired.I just feel that a the dropped points will come back and bite us again.Why could we not have started the game as we did the start of second half.

Meant sight and should be all the dropped  

[Robert]

1 hour ago, Jaggernaut said:

I could never understand why we never took a punt on Kane Hester, he was the strike partner of Sutherland at Elgin, and in my opinion was the more natural striker of the two. I wasn't overly impressed when we re-signed Sutherland, but he went on to have a good season and I'm the first to admit that he won me round with his displays. I still think if we have any aspirations of getting promotion this season, we need someone to score goals, so If it was up to me, I'd try and get Hester in the January transfer window. At the moment, we are lucky to be looking at scoring one goal a game, and if we ever go behind, I just don't see us scoring two. Oakley was taken in as a striker, but his goal rate is not good enough for a team thinking of promotion. 

Hester has a chequered past. He’s at the centre of the Elgin betting scandal and also had this court case, so these issues will be scaring clubs off him:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-footballer-court-charged-conspiracy-23862183.amp

[Jaggernaut]

5 hours ago, Robert said:

Hester has a chequered past. He’s at the centre of the Elgin betting scandal and also had this court case, so these issues will be scaring clubs off him:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-footballer-court-charged-conspiracy-23862183.amp

Yes, I know of his reputation, and it may put many clubs off, but Sutherland was also involved in the betting scandal. He scores goals regularly and knows where the goal is. When I watch the Elgin highlights I see the positions he takes up, and he's a natural scorer, always in the right place at the right time, something all good strikers need. I certainly would've taken a punt and dealt with whatever transpired in the future.

[Peleistheman]

20+ goals already for him up to now this season. Have seen him a couple of times, reminds me of Ian Stewart.

[The Mantis]

Actually saw him at the weekend. Stayed at home and watched Bonnyrigg v Elgin. He had a great first half, won 2 pens, led the line well and looked very pacy and nimble. That's against one of the worst defences in Lge 2 though. 

[bdu98196]

On 11/7/2022 at 12:12 PM, RiG said:

Absolutely nothing going on in the final third of the pitch.

This. Final balls were horrific and produced no real opportunities. We can cite the poor scoring record and lack of goals but the strikers can only do so much and unfortunately are let down by those behind them. Similarly the midfield provides little protection for the defence, which is make-shift and are not just error prone but have massive pressure on them knowing the team don't score many and that the opposition will target them and apply a lot of pressure.

Right now the middle of the park is the issue, not sure whether need to gamble with Carson put in there and try use him as a combative CDM to try take hold of the game. Also, yet again Doran was poor and given his ability (even without pace) he should be capable of more (vision & creativity).

Dodds can keep referring to injuries (which we all acknowledge) but tactically we need to set up based on what players are available and utiilise the strengths where we can, not just retain a rigid formation which doesn't seem to work. 

Given the situation a point can be seen as a positive, however also looking at how inconsistent the league is and fact we are playing the bottom team at home we should really have taken the game to them more. 10 mins spell in the 2nd half is not enough as it could be seen by all that Arbroath were rattled but it was us who collapsed when we conceded, rather than show confidence in what we were doing, it was revert back to some kind of clueless game of hot potato.

[Satan]

39 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

This. Final balls were horrific and produced no real opportunities. We can cite the poor scoring record and lack of goals but the strikers can only do so much and unfortunately are let down by those behind them...

3 or 4 good balls put in from the right by Shaw, a couple from the left , one of which was scored by Shaw at the back post.

Real opportunities?

This was the Arbroath game you were watching, yes?

Edited November 8, 2022 by Satan

[bdu98196]

13 hours ago, Satan said:

3 or 4 good balls put in from the right by Shaw, a couple from the left , one of which was scored by Shaw at the back post.

Real opportunities?

This was the Arbroath game you were watching, yes?

Yes, it was the Arbroath game, but thanks for being patronising and asking. I'm happy that you wish disagree and can be encouraged by the type of play produced by the team & management - credit to you for being so positive, however we are all entitled to see things differently.

Ironically most of those cross balls you refer were during that single spell at the start of the 2nd half before we (in my opinion) collapsed back to type per first half. Statistically, its not just about the number of balls into the box, its the quality and there are plenty examples of failing to play anything decent that even Ronaldo or Messi would have done anything with.

Arbroath created just as much if not more during that game.

[Satan]

My point still stands, a Dingwall handful of good chances in the second half, real opportunities in anyone's book regardless of how arsenal-like we create them. Add to that the sprinkling of first 45 half chances, and you must wonder how we aren't scoring.

I'm not a fan of our playing style under the current (and previous) manager, but with the current 11 fit players we have, our inability to put chances away increases pressure on whatever combination of utility players we have at the back, and the unfortunate sods in midfield who not only have to protect them but also are tasked with launching offensive moves (when they aren't bypassed by the howitzers out of central defence).

Arbroath are bang average, their defence isn't even that good and they had us to thank for their equaliser ffs.

Teams just know they will get a chance against us, and one chance is usually all it takes, whereas we need a hell of a lot more.

 

 

[bdu98196]

Billy plays up front as our focal point. Billy is relatively small in stature and has never been a significantly dominant player in the air. Our tactics are launching high, inaccurate balls into the box. Moving the ball better and playing to his feet where his strengths lie (like previous managers did) then he may get more goals - so cant really blame lack of goals just at his door.

If this is the style of play the manager wants we need a battering ram, back in his day perhaps that worked for him because he was partnered with Duncan Shearer and maybe this is his aim to re-create with Oakley (or another) in that role (but its not working).

This was Dodds opinions 10 years ago and TBH I think his managerial mindset is still in this place.

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/13256968.exclusive-jon-daly-and-nicky-clark-is-devastating-attack-duo-for-rangers-says-billy-dodds/

[Robert]

Will this help with fitness and stamina, I wonder?

https://ictfc.com/applied-nutrition-becomes-clubs-official-nutrition-supplier

[Eagle4Caley]

Gosh I tried to post something on both this thread and the Morton one, and the thing kept locking up, perhaps it recognised I was writing drivel. So up for the Queens Park match, and am poptimistic for somehing out of it

[IBM]

43 minutes ago, Eagle4Caley said:

Gosh I tried to post something on both this thread and the Morton one, and the thing kept locking up, perhaps it recognised I was writing drivel. So up for the Queens Park match, and am poptimistic for somehing out of it

Yes sometimes you have to try about ten times