The Last Post

[weeStie]

Of course it is Johnboy.  If you don't believe that then you don't believe in democracy.

In this country we permit people of all views including terrorists and racists to express their opinions and I sincerely believe in that right.

Otherwise we might as well live in a dictatorship.

[Guest Get_off_the_park_Wyness!]

Just ignore sideshow Bob and his nonsense Rig. As the saying goes 'don't feed the trolls'. The moderators should delete all obscene and off-topic spam and allow the adults to continue their discussion. Why should one idiot be allowed to ruin it for everybody? This is a family forum and everyone should respect that. Please be more considerate with the language and the images that you use. If you have nothing intelligent to say then try allowing everyone else to get a word in edgeways and don't clutter the threads with gobbledygook.

If somebody disagrees with your point of view, don't always take it so personally. If you must start flaming, please do it in the anything goes forum. You obviously have alot of enthusiasm for ICT try using it more productively.

[Scotty]

Please Scotty, now you're making racist assumptions about neanderthals.  To the best of my knowledge there is absolutely no evidence available to justify that!

Whilst you would be correct if I was referring to Neanderthal Man as a racist, I was actually using it in another context. It is accepted by most reference material to have the following definitions ...  :004:

–adjective

1. of or pertaining to Neanderthal man.

2. (often lowercase) Informal. primitive, unenlightened, or reactionary; culturally or intellectually backward.

–noun

3. Neanderthal man.

4. (often lowercase) Informal.

    a.    an unenlightened or ignorant person; barbarian.

    b.    a reactionary; a person with very old-fashioned ideas.

As for abusive bile on this forum, there has been far more expressed against Ross County fans than there ever has been against other races be they Afro, Afro Carribean, Indian, Pakistani, Japanese or even, dare I say it English or American.

True

We all have our opinions and we're entitled to hold them and to express them - as long as we are prepared to accept the consequences.  If you don't like someone's actions, tell them!

Also true

In this country we permit people of all views including terrorists and racists to express their opinions and I sincerely believe in that right. Otherwise we might as well live in a dictatorship.

Even this is true, although I would hope most of us have the good sense to publicly disagree with those opinions we find offensive and that the authorities have a clear definition of where it crosses the line from opinion into incitement or one or more words that end in -ism.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Thanks IHE - really appreciate the racist accusations  -

Would it be asking too much to get you to explain some of your alcohol induced, mumbo jumbo bullsh!t from last night.....

Perhaps you could outline the paragraphs (below) you consider relevant to this debate - if there are any.....

There was'nt any actual "decent content" apart from Sophia's opening statement - the content quickly deteriorated into the usual name baiting and personal point scoring. . What the feck was this thread doing on the Football forum?

People had different views on what is a very, very sensitive subject. People have different views on what is racist or not - or who is feckin racist. IF I was an administrator ( and I am being serious) I would have moved it half way through page 1 with a feckin warning or closed it down.

It saddens me that Suspicious Minds has taken this step in reaction to a thread which actually started off as being quite supportive. DBS comes in with a more personal, philosophical view - which he is entitled to - and he gets feckin hammered. Again because it was not about feckin football.

Anyone who knows me - and notices the colour of my son - will understand that I would be rite behing Sophia on this

And now I have posted on this thread - it will probably be moved or closed down too. 

Maybe it's time you took another holiday......

There you go diddums.  :019: :019: :019: Just thought I would add a wee defence and a few swear words.  :001:

And I did'nt call you a racist (not reading the posts again - just reacting.  :017:).

I said "Johnboy who had clearly the most racist undertone post last nite ".

I cannot believe the utter bullsh!t & drivel I have read on here...

Quote " He didn't see him 'cos he wasn't smiling"  Racist abuse..?

Black ba$t@rd would have been racist abuse.... Moronic monkey calls likewise....

Latapy's face lights up when he smiles... the same could be said of Ronaldino and a host of others...

It makes many of these players instantly recogniseable...  So what..?

If anyone had asked Latapy, had he heard that remark, if he would have taken offence?

Im pretty sure I know what his answer would be....

And that is 07.40 Mumbo Jumbo.  :015: :015: :015: :015: :015:

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Just ignore sideshow Bob and his nonsense Rig. As the saying goes 'don't feed the trolls'. The moderators should delete all obscene and off-topic spam and allow the adults to continue their discussion. Why should one idiot be allowed to ruin it for everybody? This is a family forum and everyone should respect that. Please be more considerate with the language and the images that you use. If you have nothing intelligent to say then try allowing everyone else to get a word in edgeways and don't clutter the threads with gobbledygook.

If somebody disagrees with your point of view, don't always take it so personally. If you must start flaming, please do it in the anything goes forum. You obviously have alot of enthusiasm for ICT try using it more productively.

Oh dear me - more personal abuse.  :019: :019: :019: :019: :019: :019: :019: :019:

And from the Reverend to boot.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

Although I've read all the posts on this thread and Sophia's original thread, I've not felt the urge to reply until now.  I've been amazed how this whole thing has escalated into a whole sale slanging match between posters (including moderators), resulting in at least one poster (and I suspect more) giving up on the forum for good.  IHE makes a very good point on a recent post when he asks  what Latapy might have thought about the comment.  I too believe he would have thought it fairly inoffensive, much less offensive than what he gets most weeks.  Not that this makes it right, but I do feel that several posters on here have blown the whole eposode out of proportion.  Before anyone now accuses me of being racist, I would point out that I've been married for 40 years to a girl from India.  Time for everyone to calm down maybe?

[Johnboy]

Caley Mad in Berks....

It was actually me who suggested that Russel Latapy - had he heard that remark - would probably not have taken offence....

IHE was quoting me (above)... I presume he disagrees with that suggestion....

Just chanced on an article in the Scotsman this morning about Christianity and the internet...

Quote : The internet is no place for Christians - It's a place for bullies, bigots, perverts and the indescribeably dense.....

More than a grain of truth in that...!!

[Guest Get_off_the_park_Wyness!]

Thank you for making an effort to clean up your signature IHE, could you perhaps finish the job?  :025:

[clacher_holiday2]

isnt the last post a pub in paisley

[ictchris]

I don't even understand the original comment, can someone explain it to me while I look for my Dunces hat?

[Johnboy]

Clacher...

You're right about The Last Post - Gilmour St, Paisley - not far from Love St - and one of the first pubs I ever had a pint in.... :003:

Ictchris...

I think this thread should be put to bed but if you really want to see how it all started click this link :

http://www.caleythistleonline.com/index.ph...mp;topic=3532.0

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Thank you for making an effort to clean up your signature IHE, could you perhaps finish the job?  :025:

I am making a determined effort to change ma terrible ways. I concede that you are right - this is a family orientated forum and is not the place for adult language or humour. Being psychologically minded I can sense the distress that my pictures and colourful language must have caused to you and your family. Professionally I can clearly define your profile of a sensitive wee soul, with a brittle ego and low threshold to adult behaviours. I am available for therapy if necessitated. Again may I sincerely apologise to you and your family.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Well, well.

I did not see the original thread and have no intention of viewing it. Why all this has struck such a rich cord of discord in Inverness I will never know because in Canada it is not an issue of moment. 

Had I still been living in the United Kingdom I have no idea whether the issue would be eating at my soul like a growing cancer , as it apparently does in this thread, but for once  and contrary to his normal bumbling attempts at being humourous, Scarlet  says in all seriousness that maybe it's time for all to "put a sock in it".

I live in one of the most multicultural cities on this planet, Vancouver, British Columbia. Here the resident joke is-- here we all come from somewhere.

Virtually every nationality is represented here and the effect is to desensitise one to the differences in appearance, whilst presenting often quixotic but continually interesting exchanges with persons from another country of origin.

After having been here for over 30 years do not think it has been easy adjusting to this environment because that, and the fact that the local Canadians themselves have their own style and mannerisms to add to the mix, makes it imperative that we all eventually don't give a tinker's cuss where you come from or who you look like. We are all glad just to interact positively, get along, work together,get the pay-packet, get home and put our feet up at the end of the day , even if sometimes trying to understand English spoken with so many different accents does present challenges from time to time.

Having personally suffered not racism as such but discrimination by the people in my own work environment, borne out of fear that I was not what I seemed, a well-intentioned honest person just there to do his best and get along, but a whizz kid here to leaf-frog them in the promotion ladder and take their job, I suffered as much in a sense from bewilderment and confusion in the early days plus a sense of resentment and self-pity, but soon found out that the remedy lay in my own hands--quit that environment and move on. One of the bosses went as far as to tell me that he would not help me since "you Brits come over here and tell us what to do" leaving me stunned and open-mouthed--and he was an indigenous Canadian who was as white as I am and born here. That attitude still prevails by the way. On the other hand once my car broke down and it was a Chinese man who stopped to help me and there are a hundred tales like this to tell.

Bottom line?" Don't judge a book by it's cover. If anyone makes a joke out of racism just walk away and leave their little clique isolated and obvious. Hopefully they will then begin to sense that they are not part of the mainstream viewpoint and will change ,but maybe not in this lifetime. Whether you call it racism, racialism, or just plain discrimination, frankly it is a pain in the neck, causes untold fear and misery, alters lives , inhibits pleasure and happiness and restricts positive progress.And there are some very smart people around who don't look like you and I.

Simply put , in any guise it has no place in the 21st Century so whatever point Sophia was trying to make I am sure that I could support it 100% especially if she was trying to stamp out something as negative and dehumanising as this. That and the continuance of slavery

on the planet....?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Was the slip in the last line deliberate - if so - URANUS - if not, please accept my humble,sincere and profuse apology - ya feckin old moose.  :016: (I have called him a lot worse Reverend.  :003:)

[buckett]

All very true I'm sure, Scarlet.

Thing is, in Inverness people still stare when they see a black man in the street.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Especially if he is delivering the feckin coal.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

IHE....intellectual, professional  

In the same feckin sentence  :010: Thank you Johnboy  :love04:

[alimci]

buckett said:

Thing is, in Inverness people still stare when they see a black man in the street.

That doesn't mean there is anything racist in their actions (I'm not sure if you're implying there is). I can still remember seeing a black man for the first time in Nairn when I was about fourteen. I was probably very rude and stared at him. I sincerely hope he didn't think I had a single negative thought about him. I didn't. He just, for obvious reasons, stood out from the crowd. I was in southern India a few years ago, and being pale skinned and blond has the same effect there. Everyone looks. If someone looks different, for ANY reason (punks, goths, excessively fat) people will stare.

[Harry Chibber]

My best mate's step dad is black and has stayed in Inverness for almost 8 years now and has never had any bother, infact if you ask anyone he is very well thought of and has been more than accepted into the comunity.  I have always been brought up to believe that nothing is an issue until someone makes one.  Whoever made this comment has probably got exactly what he wanted by so much attention being brought to it, is it racist... probably but is is offencive enough to cause such a hoo ha, probably not.  I'm sure Latapy is not lying awake at night thinking of it.

Just drop it, you are all making this a bigger problem than it actually is.

[CaleyD]

I think far too many people get mixed up between intolerance(hate) and fear, certainly when it comes to race.

None of us are born to hate, that is a behaviour which we learn as we grow (mostly from those around us - family etc) and it is therefor something action can be taken against to prevent or get rid of in society.

However, we are all born to fear.  It's an "animal instinct" if you like, and we all fear what is different or unknown to us.  It is only through experience that we learn not to fear (or to trust) what we don't know or understand.

As Inverness has grown a lot in the last 20 years, so has it's cultural diversity.  Although 20 years may seem like a long time it is still infant status for any society.  I don't believe Inverness has a problem with racism but I think that has partly been brought about by modern day society as a whole.  When other large towns and societies were developing they had very different 'approaches' to dealing with other cultures and racists, often handling them with separation both physically and by class.  That is being stamped out and was beingdone prior to the current boom growth Inverness is witnessing.

As a result, Inverness has benefited from being a late developer in this regard.  Cultural/racial separation is something we have never, to any great extent, had to experience.  Where other towns and cities have had to overcome a race problem that existed for hundreds of years, Inverness never had one to start with and we effectively got to start with a clean slate.

In short, people in Inverness are born into a more "live and let live" society.

When something happens which goes against that then two things can happen....

People are far more horrified by it and you get extreme reactions to what may well be an un-extreme incident.  e.g. A misplaced comment at a football match instantly has some people screaming racist when it may just be ignorance.

People take the "live and let live" approach and just let things pass them by.  e.g. A misplaced comment at a football match doesn't really put people up nor down.

You need your extreme reactions to keep people educated and make them realise that things like racism will not be tolerated, but you just as equally need the more laid back approach to stop things being taken too far and resulting in a society where people are afraid to speak their mind.  And lets face it, if we lived in a society where people were scared to speak their mind and stand up against racism and the like in the first place then it would still be something which was viewed as normal and acceptable today.  The laid back approach in effect allows those with a stronger more extreme view to have their say and the outcome is normally somewhere below that extreme at a level which is tolerable and acceptable to the majority.

[Johnboy]

Good post, CD - hard to argue against any of that....  although no doubt some will....

That wasn't you knocking at my door last night campaigning on behalf of the Lib-Dems by any chance?

:024:

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Vote Caley D - Ya know it makes sense.

[SMEE]

Just read the thread that started all this. The poster (Sophia??) didnt exactly help her cause with her dictorial attitude.No wonder she got under peoples skin!

Had I heard the "shout" that offended so many, It wouldnt have bothered me one way or the other! Does that make me racist?

And to the person that made the comment about a black man on the streets of Inverness..........get a grip. Invernessians themselves seem to be in the minority these days here!

[Johnboy]

Just read the thread that started all this. The poster (Sophia??) didnt exactly help her cause with her dictorial attitude.No wonder she got under peoples skin!

Had I heard the "shout" that offended so many, It wouldnt have bothered me one way or the other! Does that make me racist?

And to the person that made the comment about a black man on the streets of Inverness..........get a grip. Invernessians themselves seem to be in the minority these days here!

:025: :025: :025:

[Guest sophia]

SMEE,

I don't swear in front of children, some do.

Don't feel threatened.

Heard a programme on Radio 4 yesterday, it seems that Britain has exported more of our species than she has imported.

Forgive me, I'm rather puzzled by your "Invernessians in the minority" statement. How do you define Invernessian?

Perhaps a radius from the Town House would do the trick.

Would an incomer from Aviemore or Alness be ok? How about Aberfeldy? Altrincham? Aachan? Ahmadabad?

I'm sure ICT would welcome every last one of them through the turnstiles as if there is one thing we need it is more supporters.