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Posted
11 hours ago, buckett said:

I wonder if it's too early for another crowd-fund thing.

Although the last one raised a fair bit of cash, it didn't come anywhere near meeting the stated target.

But contributing at that time was just a shot in the dark - nobody really knew where the money they contributed was actually going, nor what it would achieve. Most of us I think just heeded a cry for help from our club and responded with a random, affordable donation.

There was also the fear that our contributions would end up in SG's pocket, which made many of us reluctant to donate.

Now, however, the picture is a little clearer and we can have a more reliable indication of how much is required and why.

I personally would be prepared to donate again, probably more than I donated last time, although I'd need a few weeks to recover from the expenses of this season of goodwill!

I'd certainly be more keen to contribute to the crowd fund if I knew it would be used to help pay off local businesses we owe money to rather than the pillocks who got us into this position.  

  • Agree 3
Posted
2 hours ago, Robert said:

The P&J is reporting Alan Savage as saying we are looking to sign a striker in January, there will be a Press Conference by the Administrator on Monday and he (Savage) may lead a consortium to take the club forward. 

Think most of it lifted off the pod by the shuffle. Worth a listen 

  • Like 1
Posted
2 hours ago, Fraz said:

I'd certainly be more keen to contribute to the crowd fund if I knew it would be used to help pay off local businesses we owe money to rather than the pillocks who got us into this position.  

I am sure that there are lots who feel this way, although I think that any money going into the club just now will all be used for running the club rather than going into paying off creditors.  In practice, if people contributed a bit more now, it maybe means Alan Savage doesn't have to dig quite so deeply into his pockets to keep the club going.  But if a crowdfunder was specifically to pay back what is owed to local businesses, then I think it would do very well.

Your argument will apply too, to some of the individuals who are listed amongst the list of creditors.  They will not wish to write off their loans if it means that those responsible for this mess end up getting a bit more out if at the end of the day.  Better to hold on, get a bit out of a CVA if it comes to that, and then put that money back into the club when we come out of administration.  

But didn't Alan Savage say earlier on that he would look after the debts to local businesses?  I don't know whether any of that has happened yet, but regardless of that, the guy is certainly putting other local money men who profess a love of the club to shame.

  • Like 1
Posted

If people want to support some of these local businesses then they can do it directly. Buy gift cards/presents for Christmas type thing.  That way you can be sure they get every penny.

Posted
18 minutes ago, STFU said:

If people want to support some of these local businesses then they can do it directly. Buy gift cards/presents for Christmas type thing.  That way you can be sure they get every penny.

Well, I've just spent over £150 on hospitality so I'm sure Red Poppy will get a reasonable share of that. 

Not sure the kids would be enamoured with a D&E gift card 🤣

Posted
1 hour ago, Fraz said:

Well, I've just spent over £150 on hospitality so I'm sure Red Poppy will get a reasonable share of that. 

Not sure the kids would be enamoured with a D&E gift card 🤣

Was going to do hospitality but was too slow and it was sold out pretty quick which is good to see.

A D&E coach to take then to their school Christmas party would make a statement 😂

  • Funny 1
Posted
19 minutes ago, STFU said:

Was going to do hospitality but was too slow and it was sold out pretty quick which is good to see.

A D&E coach to take then to their school Christmas party would make a statement 😂

Might be worth calling back re hospitality? I think there were cancellations 

Posted
29 minutes ago, old caley girl said:

Might be worth calling back re hospitality? I think there were cancellations 

We're already booked in somewhere else for lunch before the game now and wouldn't like to do to them what others have done to the club by cancelling.

Hopefully they fill the spots.

  • Agree 1
Posted
6 hours ago, Robert said:

The P&J is reporting Alan Savage as saying we are looking to sign a striker in January, there will be a Press Conference by the Administrator on Monday and he (Savage) may lead a consortium to take the club forward. 

Wonder where they got that information from...

  • Like 1
Posted
3 minutes ago, RiG said:

Wonder where they got that information from...

No need to wonder as they credited the podcast as the source.

Posted
4 hours ago, STFU said:

No need to wonder as they credited the podcast as the source.

That's good to know. Would be disappointed if the P and J had gone down the Reach Group route of churnalism out the wazoo. 

Posted
14 hours ago, Robert said:

The P&J is reporting Alan Savage as saying we are looking to sign a striker in January, there will be a Press Conference by the Administrator on Monday and he (Savage) may lead a consortium to take the club forward. 

One question I have is, aren't we under a transfer embargo after going into administration or did we manage to avoid that one 🤔🤔?

Second thing is, yes please to Alan Savage leading a consort to take the club forward, I think nearly all of, if not all of our support would get behind that because he certainly has this club in his heart and certainly wouldn't be as incompetent as previous board members etc!! STV saying he doesn't expect to get out of administration before end of February though which is slightly worrying, or am I once again reading to much into this and unnecessarily worrying 🤔🤔?

  • Like 1
Posted
9 hours ago, CaleyTennis85 said:

One question I have is, aren't we under a transfer embargo after going into administration or did we manage to avoid that one 🤔🤔?

Apparently we can sign players under a certain age despite still being in administration. There may be other caveats to that. Savage mentions it in the latest Wyness Shuffle podcast.

Posted

I don’t think that the 47 page document tells us a great deal that we didn’t know already - apart from the identities of creditors we weren’t aware of and what they are owed, and how much the Administrators are being paid. Up to £1100 an hour for a BDO partner’s work and pro rata downward among a £252K total so far is pretty formidable and, I understand, these hourly rates are somewhat above the odds for accountancy services.

However, on reading it (and trying to penetrate some of the extensive jargon), I suddenly for some reason find myself less confident about a way out of this mess. That’s not made any easier by the understanding that AS is finding it a bit difficult to get people to come in with him, and a suggestion that Dougie had been set to sponsor stadium naming but has now withdrawn.

It’s the sheer magnitude of the problem that’s so discouraging and I remain mystified as to how so much could have been spent without challenge for so long and to such little effect. That brings me to the £1.65 million Ross Morrison is owed. It seems ironic in the extreme that there should be such indebtedness to the very individual who occupied the top position when it was decided to over spend to that extent in the first place. What he seems to have done is to have written a large cheque to finance his own irresponsible spending, but been fly enough to get security for it in the event of it all going wrong.. which it dramatically did. And then there’s the £70K listed against Gardiner which I hope and trust is nothing more than a claim and a figment of his imagination.

Monday’s conference may well be a complete damp squib - simply a pre-Christmas formal update - but maybe not. We just don’t know.

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Posted

It would be prudent at this stage to be cautious. I would imagine the creditors who are listed as being owed the larger sums will have their claims rigorously checked. It is possible that due diligence will show maybe a lack of competence in their attempts to create a legal right to full  or any settlement. It would be quite remarkable (but Karma) if they managed to bodge that up.

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

I don’t think that the 47 page document tells us a great deal that we didn’t know already - apart from the identities of creditors we weren’t aware of and what they are owed, and how much the Administrators are being paid. Up to £1100 an hour for a BDO partner’s work and pro rata downward among a £252K total so far is pretty formidable and, I understand, these hourly rates are somewhat above the odds for accountancy services.

However, on reading it (and trying to penetrate some of the extensive jargon), I suddenly for some reason find myself less confident about a way out of this mess. That’s not made any easier by the understanding that AS is finding it a bit difficult to get people to come in with him, and a suggestion that Dougie had been set to sponsor stadium naming but has now withdrawn.

It’s the sheer magnitude of the problem that’s so discouraging and I remain mystified as to how so much could have been spent without challenge for so long and to such little effect. That brings me to the £1.65 million Ross Morrison is owed. It seems ironic in the extreme that there should be such indebtedness to the very individual who occupied the top position when it was decided to over spend to that extent in the first place. What he seems to have done is to have written a large cheque to finance his own irresponsible spending, but been fly enough to get security for it in the event of it all going wrong.. which it dramatically did. And then there’s the £70K listed against Gardiner which I hope and trust is nothing more than a claim and a figment of his imagination.

Monday’s conference may well be a complete damp squib - simply a pre-Christmas formal update - but maybe not. We just don’t know.

I welcome the report. It detailed the facts precisely and unclutters the fog of words around the clubs precarious position and challenges it faces. How we got here is now history, it’s dealing with the future that matters. 
I do share your unease on the mood music coming from the report and more importantly from AS. The debt and the uncertainty on the leased land remain the obstacles to any serious potential buyer. AS did say if I recall rightly, that he would ensure the suppliers that were owed money would be seen ‘OK’. That looks now like it possibly could be dealt with as part of the admin process (in which the suppliers will end up receiving less). 
In regards the loan values for A Munro, Cameron et al, I expect AS spoke to them all to see what arrangement could be reached on an acceptable figure & timeline (and possible carrots of future involvement in the club). Ditto Ross Morrison but he has more insurance with the floating charge loan and a stronger bargaining position. 
Whatever was mooted at the time, the offer was not enough to win them over. 
BDO have followed up of course through the formal admin line but I expect the main protagonists (take out Bennett), felt stronger as a group to ‘sit it out’ to see if any better offer is forthcoming. 
BDO engaging lawyers to help understand the leased land around the stadium just makes me groan on the time and costs, however to be expected I guess.
With the debt and lease land uncertainty, I can understand hesitancy in buyers coming forward until both elements are ‘fixed’. (it’s too risky a business decision just now). 
I will be interested to hear and see what BDO /AS say at the forthcoming press conference. 
Possibly entering a CVA to settle the debts with a Consortium led by AS to see through a stabilisation period (1-2yr), where the legal position on the leased land is understood. Thereafter a buyer ie group that is still interested can step forward. 
Certainly a long way to go yet and the supporters will play their part (I will) where we can funding the appropriate cause.

sorry, a bit longer than I wanted! 
bc

Edited by big cherly
  • Like 1
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Posted

When a press conference takes place, can someone get a stopwatch out and calculate how many thousands of pounds it is costing the club in BDO’s fees?!

  • Funny 1
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

I don’t think that the 47 page document tells us a great deal that we didn’t know already - apart from the identities of creditors we weren’t aware of and what they are owed, and how much the Administrators are being paid. Up to £1100 an hour for a BDO partner’s work and pro rata downward among a £252K total so far is pretty formidable and, I understand, these hourly rates are somewhat above the odds for accountancy services.

However, on reading it (and trying to penetrate some of the extensive jargon), I suddenly for some reason find myself less confident about a way out of this mess. That’s not made any easier by the understanding that AS is finding it a bit difficult to get people to come in with him, and a suggestion that Dougie had been set to sponsor stadium naming but has now withdrawn.

It’s the sheer magnitude of the problem that’s so discouraging and I remain mystified as to how so much could have been spent without challenge for so long and to such little effect. That brings me to the £1.65 million Ross Morrison is owed. It seems ironic in the extreme that there should be such indebtedness to the very individual who occupied the top position when it was decided to over spend to that extent in the first place. What he seems to have done is to have written a large cheque to finance his own irresponsible spending, but been fly enough to get security for it in the event of it all going wrong.. which it dramatically did. And then there’s the £70K listed against Gardiner which I hope and trust is nothing more than a claim and a figment of his imagination.

Monday’s conference may well be a complete damp squib - simply a pre-Christmas formal update - but maybe not. We just don’t know.

I still find it incompetent in the extreme that the board and accountant (still at the club),  kept signing off on thingsI ( players, stupid ventures, too much kit etc), that the club had no money for!!!!! I agree with your comments, who in their right mind would pay off the debt, then take on the costs of a loss making club!!!! AS has got money, but I suspect he needs assistance to take things forward. 

Edited by CaleyCiuin
  • Like 1
Posted

I think there will be a fair bit of brinksmanship going on here.  There may be people willing to write off their loans, but if they do so now then the likes of Gardiner will get more of what is in the pot if it comes down to a CVA as his £70K would then be a larger proportion of the remaining debt.  Similarly, if Savage pays off the debt to local companies now, then Gardiner ends up getting more.  By seeing these businesses "OK" Savage might be meaning he will make up the difference after the admin process has taken its course.

I would suspect that the list of creditors has been thoroughly checked and by making it public the administrators are acknowledging these are all legitimate debts.  The fact that he is owed such a large sum is a reflection of how naive the Board have been.  Similarly, it beggars belief that the Board were hoodwinked into agreeing the terms of Morrison's secured loan and the relationship with the property company which are now the biggest stumbling blocks towards a secure future for the club.   Remember, though, Gardiner had been claiming he was owed more than £70K so the fact that the document only lists £70K suggests that the administrators have concluded he does not have a valid further claim.

I have to agree with Charles though.  Despite the administrators' best efforts, the future looks very uncertain.  Hopefully Monday's press conference, just 2 days before Christmas, will bring us all some much needed Christmas cheer.

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Posted
1 hour ago, STFU said:

Not sure suggesting that Savage commit fraud is a wise course of action.

Ha, if clients want their lawyers to pursue fan forum posters, then I think of SG getting his lot scanning, photographing and cataloging this forum for defamatory, offensive and hateful postings to add to his legal action. Deep pockets needed there! 

Posted
1 hour ago, big cherly said:

Ha, if clients want their lawyers to pursue fan forum posters, then I think of SG getting his lot scanning, photographing and cataloging this forum for defamatory, offensive and hateful postings to add to his legal action. Deep pockets needed there! 

I wasn't suggesting anyone on here could or would be pursued for anything.

Posted

The Courier’s report on the Press Conference:

 

Caley Thistle administrators have rejected a bid to buy the club


Inverness Caledonian Thistle administrators BDO say they have already rejected one bid for the club – but 15 parties remain interested in buying the football club.

Joint-administrator James Stephen revealed the news this morning, stating that he hopes to appoint a preferred bidder next month.

It is now over two months since Caley Thistle brought in BDO to take charge of the club’s affairs, with former chairman Alan Savage providing a stable financial footing for the club to continue the 2024/25 season.

However, long-term a new set of owners will need to be found, and Stephen has revealed the latest state of play in the Highland capital.

“We still have significant interest in the club – around 15 parties,” he said in a statement.

“Discussions are ongoing and we had a call on Thursday with a potential investor. That went well and they have asked for further information. Interest is both UK and worldwide.

James Stephen was addressing the media for the first time in two months.

"From a buyer's perspective, there are two parts to consider. The first is the funding to buy the assets and allow me to promote a credible voluntary arrangement. 

"The second bit is they need to understand what the funding is going to be like for the club moving forward as it strives to move away from a loss-making position. 

"Parties have asked to see budgets beyond the end of this season. We are preparing them and they will be ready in early January. 

"We will continue those discussions in January, and I am still very optimistic and pleased with the interest we have still got. We've been having sensible and credible discussions. 

"My desire is to conclude the sale as quickly as possible, but it has to be a transaction that works for everyone. Thanks to Alan's support, we have breathing space to iron out some obstacles we're facing.” 

Elaborating further after questioning, Stephen continued: “Some foreign investors have asked to see budgets going beyond the end of this season.

“They see it as a long term project, they want to be in it for seven to 10 years or more.

“They have a very strong affinity with sport, in the country that they’re in they are connected to a lot of sporting institutions, and one of them in particular has a strong affinity for Inverness and has visited quite a lot, so that has sparked their interest.”

“I’m optimistic, and Alan has given us a great period of stability to iron out all these issues.

“I would like to get to a preferred bidder stage in January with a view to putting forward a company voluntary arrangement proposal to the creditors.”

Stephen did confirm, though, that the Caley Jags would not exit administration next month, meaning they will be limited in what they can do in the forthcoming January transfer window.

Complicating matters is the land situation around the stadium.

On that issue, Stephen said: “I just want to be crystal clear, the stadium and all the land around it is owned by Highland Council and the Common Good Fund. 

"The club has the lease until 2094 for the stadium. When I say stadium, I mean exactly that. We are a sub-tenant for the 9-10 acres of land around the stadium, which includes the car parks. 

"The head tenant is a company called Inverness Caledonian Thistle Properties. Our sub-lease is with Inverness Caledonian Thistle Properties. That is controlled by Ross Morrison and David Cameron, who are two former directors of the club. That was purchased by them in 2023. These leases run until 2094 as well.

Former Caley Jags chairman Ross Morrison still has an influence on a potential sale due to his shared control of the land around the Caledonian Stadium.

"In simple terms, the club doesn't control the destiny of the land. The sub-lease is terminable at quite short notice. That means we are in quite a weak position in that respect in terms of security of tenure. 

"I can't hide that is a potential obstacle to the sale of parties. They are quite understandably concerned the land could be subject to a change of use or the sub-lease could be terminated within a relatively short notice.  

"Given where the club sits, a major portion of the land is important to the club as it is not a city centre club and transport links are not great. Having that lands allows the club to promote non-football revenues which could be a big factor in the club being successful going forward. 

"I have been in touch with the council to say, in these circumstances, if the property company decides to do something different – sell them on or look for a change of use – then we are to be notified. We have a sub-lease and are a neighbouring party. 

"I did seek to get PropCo agreement from the reading that I had from the books and records of the company to agree what had been agreed prior to my appointment. That would have been of great assistance to the process. 

"However, following administration the PropCo position has changed. Their proposal is basically to offer a significant portion of the land to the club or a prospective purchaser. So there would be financial recompense for that. It's not fatal to the sale but it does add another significant cost to any acquisition. 

"The offer that was on the table prior to administration would have been good. 

"I remain committed to trying to seek a commercial agreement with all parties involved. I will also consider what other options around administration we may or may not have.”

Again, upon further questioning, Stephen said: “What they are asking for now is markedly different now to what it was before administration.

“There’s the triangle in the corner which is called the Bermuda Triangle – that wouldn’t form part of any acquisition of the club.

“The Bermuda Triangle would potentially be sold off to someone else, and then the club would either get back the remainder or seek a sensible commercial deal to buy the remainder.

“(Potential buyers are) totally aware of the situation, and we’re trying to look at alternative options that may work without having to get embroiled in a long-running negotiation.”

On his chances of coming to an agreement with Morrison and Cameron, Stephen added: “I’ve had one conversation with Ross since I was appointed, and to be fair he has asked for a meeting in January which I welcome.

“Previously I was dealing with him through his solicitor. He has duties as a director to co-operate with me.

“I wouldn’t say he has been uncooperative, but I would like to see it move a bit quicker.

“I’m very keen that the meeting in January goes ahead.”

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