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Tories back vote on Independence


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LOL Charles, you read exactly like a disgruntled old labour voter who just can't admit defeat!

The SNP ran a fantastic campaign this election and if you'd paid attention to their policies rather than the tabloid "SNP ate my baby" hype (propogated mainly by the daily record) then you might see where the rest of us are coming from on this thread. I have all the SNP manifestos from 1997 onwards if you want to do some homework on their wide range of socialist policies! Thats ten years worth btw, hardly "indecent haste"! What exactly do you think the SNP were "hiding" the independence question behind if not a wide range of other policies? You're showing your ignorance by calling them a single issue party don't you think? You might think its being sceptical but really you would have to show at least some understanding of politics and political history to put yourself in that category!

And I dont for one minute think that anyone who voted SNP would vote no in a referendum, unless they put their cross in the wrong box!!!

The fact that the SNP, for the first time ever, got the biggest number of votes out of all the parties is a huge milestone in the history of our country and IS a conversion of sorts. DJS makes a good point about the rise of English Nationalism, the Union is dying, in fact it's been dead for years, and its time we made our own way in the world. A point not lost on the majority of posters on this thread!

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I've very much enjoyed watching this debate and have looked forward to CB contributuions. However it would be enlightening to occassionally hear a wee bit of positiveness in at least one of his replies.....I hope/assume he is happy!

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Yes, thats basically what I'm saying Charles. Because if you were dead set against independence there is no chance you would vote SNP, even tactically.

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Given that the margin by which SNP gained the right to form the current administration amounts to nothing more than a few thousand votes, maybe even less, it's in effect certain that they are there on the strength of tactical voting. I'm rather amazed that there seems to be the belief here that the SNP alone among the parties is immune to the effects of tactical voting and that only people who want full independence vote for it.

And yes Moomkin, I am VERY happy that the status quo continues and is likely to do so for the foreseeable future! Now that's positive!

And never happier than when winding up the Nats.  :015:

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Thats a very nieve attitude if you think the only reason the SNP are in power is becuase of people voting 'tactically'.

Actually it's not. Apparently a fair few people just wanted to vote anyone but Labour. The SNP were the bandwagon they jumped on.

The bottom line is, Scotland is run by an SNP goverment, people can say what they like, but Scotland is now changing for the better.

Really? Already? How can you tell?

And I for one am absolutely delighted with the start Salmond has made as our countries First Minister.

Must admit that I was pleased when they looked into EARL and TiE concerning whether they were value for money or not. I was also surprised that they have abolished the Graduate Endownment Fee. Shame that I've paid mine up now  :008:

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someone stated that th SNP gained 32% of the scottish vote. this means that th rest of the 60% obviously were against th SNP and voted for othr parties. could this not suggest that the SNP are not as popular as u may think rosco17.

i also think it is a very good argument to state that some of the SNP votes were won by people hoping to give labour a bloody nose.

although there is a very large nationalist feeling here in th north of scotland it isn't exactly the same down in th central belt.

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All very fair comments regarding the tactics, the 32%, margin of victory etc.

But to deny there has been a real shift is head in the sand stuff. The Nats have just done what Labour took for granted could never happen. They beat them in Scotland.

The critical leap of faith has happened, and since people have been making analogies, here's another one- it's like ICT beating Celtic in 2000. Things will never be the same again. Especially since people have now woken up to the fundamental dishonesty of Labour- telling us we're incapable of running a raffle ourselves when what they really mean is 'we need your votes or we'll never form a UK government again'. It also makes it easier for Nationalist-leaning Labour MSPs to defect.

Even apologists for the Union like you CB should be asking why our population is static at 5M and we have a lower rate of economic growth than most other parts of the UK. It's all very well using the 'ain't broke' argument especially when you're approaching your pension but maybe the youngsters want more than the mediocrity that seems part of being British.

No more will it be said that people would vote for a monkey if it wore a Labour rosette (and here in Midlothian you only needed to see a photo of the old council to see how true it was).

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ive just back from visitng bingham legend in manchester and although the area i was staying in was alright i still mustve heard about 12 gunshots while walking to the all night garage and as many police chases.  from the moment i arrived to the moment i left the streets, even in the city center, were swarming with homeless, asian, black and white gangs.

the job centers in the city now distribute leaflets on how to avoid guncrime, the local chemists have aids specific and meth wards (!) and yet everything ive read about manchester or saw on the local news was all what a success the city is.

in the past year my other trips down south have taken me to newcastle, reading and exeter, similar story in each town.

theres something going on in england that i dont like and im grateful as a scot i have the potential to vote not to be any part of it one day.  the recent increase in racial tension and violent crime in england is not reflected in scotland and i never once saw any evidence of it from my time spent living in brighton just a few years ago.

to me anybody who claims to be a supporter of the union despite the way things are heading in england is more than welcome to f#ck off down south to join it.  im starting to view them the way i view rangers/celtic fans who only support their teams for 'the football' but dont talk or admit to being aware of everything else that goes along with the old firm.  my view of england has completley changed from the time i spent living there, i dont know if i would again and can see why so many thousands of english families are coming to places such as inverness, perth, edinburgh etc

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Time will tell what sort of job the SNP make of running Scotland.  What is clear so far though, is the harsh reality of goverment that requires decide on the many deserving and difficult issues.  For example the dualling of the A9 was given prominence in the SNP manifesto but the only commitment that has been given by the SNP government is an objective for dualling to be done in the "long term".  How long exactly is the long term - 5, 10, 15 years?  There is also no accurate estimates as to how much it will cost to do the work.

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Kind of Blue,  you, of all people,  will know very well that the SNP government has not been in power nearly long enough to have obtained any properly audited costings of the duelling project and that it until they do it would be naive in the extreme to give more than a general commitment.

I'm sure that you would be among the first to condemn if they made such a specific promise without fully autited costings.

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I agree that commitments should not be made (and that includes manifesto commitments) without full costings but Ferus Ewing at the election led many to believe that dualling would be an immediate priority.  This differs significantly from the project being described as a long-term objective.  It sounds to me like a bit of back-sliding going on.

BTW, I'm not sure what you mean by me "of all people".  I think you've got me confused with someone else.

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ive just back from visitng bingham legend in manchester and although the area i was staying in was alright i still mustve heard about 12 gunshots while walking to the all night garage and as many police chases.  from the moment i arrived to the moment i left the streets, even in the city center, were swarming with homeless, asian, black and white gangs.

the job centers in the city now distribute leaflets on how to avoid guncrime, the local chemists have aids specific and meth wards (!) and yet everything ive read about manchester or saw on the local news was all what a success the city is.

in the past year my other trips down south have taken me to newcastle, reading and exeter, similar story in each town.

theres something going on in england that i dont like and im grateful as a scot i have the potential to vote not to be any part of it one day.  the recent increase in racial tension and violent crime in england is not reflected in scotland and i never once saw any evidence of it from my time spent living in brighton just a few years ago.

to me anybody who claims to be a supporter of the union despite the way things are heading in england is more than welcome to f#ck off down south to join it.  im starting to view them the way i view rangers/celtic fans who only support their teams for 'the football' but dont talk or admit to being aware of everything else that goes along with the old firm.  my view of england has completley changed from the time i spent living there, i dont know if i would again and can see why so many thousands of english families are coming to places such as inverness, perth, edinburgh etc

iv been to liverpool and newcastle in th last few months and its hardly that bad!!! its like that in all cities including glasgow n edinburgh.

yes england might have a problem with racial tension but what about sectarian tension in scotland??

i'm a supporter of th union n i think u should F**K OFF wi ur stupid comments, also is it not kinda ironic that u want people to get stuffed down to england when u have already settled down there lol.

if england is that bad why do we want everyoe coming up here? wont that jst make scotland bad aswell? but ofcourse scotland is paradise nothing goes wrong in scotland everything is wonderful n cheerfull!!!!! all our problems is obviously because of england ehh!!

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ive lived in glasgow and edinburgh, the two cities you mention there, yes theres sectarian issues in scotland but on nothing like the same level as the racial tension ive seen in english cities recently.  like i said the changes south of the border are new, i wouldnt live there again, if you think alls well down there by all means exercise your right to roam as many english familes are doing now and go see for yourself.

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i'm a supporter of th union n i think u should F**K OFF wi ur stupid comments, also is it not kinda ironic that u want people to get stuffed down to england when u have already settled down there lol.

if england is that bad why do we want everyoe coming up here? wont that jst make scotland bad aswell? but ofcourse scotland is paradise nothing goes wrong in scotland everything is wonderful n cheerfull!!!!! all our problems is obviously because of england ehh!!

I take it you've been a supporter of the union since you were a kid - ie last year? No wonder you got a warning, maybe you should just go play and let the adults discuss politics young man  :018:

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Guest donmac298

Clacher - I don't agree that the changes south of the border are new.  Have you forgotten the riots in London, Bristol, Handsworth Birmingham a few years ago?  I used to live in Handsworth for five years and believe me I know what I am talking about.  I could go into a lot of detail but some brainless b@stard will accuse me of being racist.   

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