On a LSM

[Guest]

Got all the issues of LSM in the loft at my in-laws (I hope!!!).

Credit also due to Black and Red All Over / 18 hours from Rotterdam which was also a good read.

Black and Red All Over #1

Black and Red All Over #2

I used to love LSM, great memories...to be fair the R&BAO fanzine provided some funny banter as well..my band at the time did an interview for Issue 2 ( link above)..strange to see the comments we made about the merger at that time and how far from the mark we were...

thanks for the memories

BC

Now i remember. A Gentle Sound. I used to work wi Carson for a few years & i knew Mark the singer reasonably well. And Glub. Saw you lot play a few times. At King Tuts too iirc.

Feckin hell i'm gettin on now.

[Scotty]

No offence CaleyD, but i'd be putting a stop to that if i could. LSM will never be associated with ICT. Ever. I just couldn't do it. The bitterness just wont go away where thats concerned. I'll go to my grave with that particular grudge.

Kind of thought that would be the response, but its fair comment and I can understand - if not agree with - your reasoning. Would definitely be interested in reading over them again via Mantis' site if he could host them.

[Guest]

Like i said, i dont mind helping Mantis (if he needs my interference that is) getting them online. I'm doing alright just now, plenty time on my hands, was even thinking of taking up the golf, but this would be less effort.

[BornCaley]

Got all the issues of LSM in the loft at my in-laws (I hope!!!).

Credit also due to Black and Red All Over / 18 hours from Rotterdam which was also a good read.

Black and Red All Over #1

Black and Red All Over #2

I used to love LSM, great memories...to be fair the R&BAO fanzine provided some funny banter as well..my band at the time did an interview for Issue 2 ( link above)..strange to see the comments we made about the merger at that time and how far from the mark we were...

thanks for the memories

BC

Now i remember. A Gentle Sound. I used to work wi Carson for a few years & i knew Mark the singer reasonably well. And Glub. Saw you lot play a few times. At King Tuts too iirc.

Feckin hell i'm gettin on now.

aah King Tuts...a good night, and your not the only one getting on

[CaleyD]

I'd love to get full copies of all these Fanzines etc and put them online here as part of our archives...

No offence CaleyD, but i'd be putting a stop to that if i could.

LSM will never be associated with ICT. Ever. I just couldn't do it. The bitterness just wont go away where thats concerned. I'll go to my grave with that particular grudge. I'm sure Barry would agree re 18 Hours from Rotterdam too. A matter of principle.

Mantis can stick them on the Caley site if he can be bothered. I dont mind scanning them & sending them to him via email if he wants.

I cant believe you even suggested that tbh. If you were fishing, well done. I've bitten like a starving piranha. :thumb04:

Take a chill pill dude...you will notice that I went on to say that the offer of assistance also stood with regards to helping get them up on the sites dedicated to Caley and/or Thistle. I made that offer as I thought it might not go down to well having them on here.

I wasn't suggesting any "association" with ICT (give me some credit), more just a way of getting all these things that are out there together in one place (or two places) for everyone to either reminisce over, or perhaps to even educate the younger ICT fans as to what was sacrificed to bring them ICT.

[Charles Bannerman]

I knew they had a liking for young boys up the hill , but schoolboys playing 1st team

I'll just ignore that attempt at humour, but I'm pretty sure both Titchy and Lofty were both signed Thistle players before they left the IHS. And these guys were SERIOUS Jaggies. Titchy was a wonderful player while Lofty also went on to become one of the best managers the Jags ever had. Lofty took over from Roshie Fraser towards the end of 1985 and in his first full season 86-87 won the Highland League, losing only the final game at Peterhead. He also famously won the Qualifying Cup with a 3-0 final replay victory over Caley at Telford Street in November 1988. :thumb04: :018:

Now on to the "what if" part. Lofty was sacked early in 1991 and a number of people, including myself suggest that this was a prermature move by Jock McDonald. After that, Jim Leishman arrived for 10 months and was, not to mince words, a failure. Leishman presided over a rapid decline of Thitle which was in parallel with hard times on the field over at Telford Street as well.

I have always argued that one of the main reasons the merger and hence ICT squeezed into existence was that when the possibility came around, both teams went into this at a fairly low ebb. Had that not been the case with one or both, I would doubt if the will to join together would even have scraped the absolute minimum of support which it eventually got.

In other words, to what extent did an error of judgement by Jock McDonald almost 20 years ago lead to SPL football coming to Inverness?

[Guest]

Got all the issues of LSM in the loft at my in-laws (I hope!!!).

Credit also due to Black and Red All Over / 18 hours from Rotterdam which was also a good read.

Black and Red All Over #1

Black and Red All Over #2

I used to love LSM, great memories...to be fair the R&BAO fanzine provided some funny banter as well..my band at the time did an interview for Issue 2 ( link above)..strange to see the comments we made about the merger at that time and how far from the mark we were...

thanks for the memories

BC

Now i remember. A Gentle Sound. I used to work wi Carson for a few years & i knew Mark the singer reasonably well. And Glub. Saw you lot play a few times. At King Tuts too iirc. :thumb04:

Feckin hell i'm gettin on now.

aah King Tuts...a good night, and your not the only one getting on

I'm sure a few of us stayed for the Rangers v selik game the next day. We were going to sleep on the underground but it closed at some point. If i remember right, CaleyHE stumbled in near the end of the gig, blootered & had to be wrestled off one of the guitar players....possibly Mike Carson. A good laugh that i'd totally forgotten about until now.

[Charles Bannerman]

I'd love to get full copies of all these Fanzines etc and put them online here as part of our archives....or we could even assist the guys with Caley and Thistle sites to get stuff online.

And not only the fanzines....anything Caley or Thistle related, perhaps with a view to an "Online Museum" type site/setup.

So in LSMspeak you want to set up an online museum about the days before the "petrol station down the dump with Fiona Larg".

[Guest]

I'd love to get full copies of all these Fanzines etc and put them online here as part of our archives....or we could even assist the guys with Caley and Thistle sites to get stuff online.

And not only the fanzines....anything Caley or Thistle related, perhaps with a view to an "Online Museum" type site/setup.

So in LSMspeak you want to set up an online museum about the days before the "petrol station down the dump with Fiona Larg".

I like to think we would've squeezed a couple of expletives in there too Charles.

[Scotty]

Like it or not Charles, the history of both Caley and Thistle are important parts of the history of ICT. LSM was a part of that history on the Caley side. Alan may not want LSM associated with ICT or this ICT site in any way, and that is his right as one of the publishers, but those of us who did embrace the new club dont forget our roots. stuff like that should be preserved for posterity !!!! The same applies for the documents from up the hill !

If it means that the only place it can go is on Mantis' site or on a Thistle site for any of the thistle stuff then so be it. It would be a shame to see it disappear forever.

[Guest]

Good post Scott. Its nothing personal btw, and i hope you can take any jibes in the spirit intended. Getting a bit long in the tooth (what few i have left) for that nowadays. Well, most of the time anyway.

[reefinweedallday]

I'd love to get full copies of all these Fanzines etc and put them online here as part of our archives...

No offence CaleyD, but i'd be putting a stop to that if i could.

LSM will never be associated with ICT. Ever. I just couldn't do it. The bitterness just wont go away where thats concerned. I'll go to my grave with that particular grudge. I'm sure Barry would agree re 18 Hours from Rotterdam too. A matter of principle.

Mantis can stick them on the Caley site if he can be bothered. I dont mind scanning them & sending them to him via email if he wants.

;)

I cant believe you even suggested that tbh. If you were fishing, well done. I've bitten like a starving piranha. :018:

I cant believe you wouldn't want them on an ICT site so the "thousands" of "new" fans could read about the history of Inverness football :thumb04:

[reefinweedallday]

Got all the issues of LSM in the loft at my in-laws (I hope!!!).

Credit also due to Black and Red All Over / 18 hours from Rotterdam which was also a good read.

Black and Red All Over #1

Black and Red All Over #2

I used to love LSM, great memories...to be fair the R&BAO fanzine provided some funny banter as well..my band at the time did an interview for Issue 2 ( link above)..strange to see the comments we made about the merger at that time and how far from the mark we were...

thanks for the memories

BC

Now i remember. A Gentle Sound. I used to work wi Carson for a few years & i knew Mark the singer reasonably well. And Glub. Saw you lot play a few times. At King Tuts too iirc.

Feckin hell i'm gettin on now.

aah King Tuts...a good night, and your not the only one getting on

I'm sure a few of us stayed for the Rangers v selik game the next day. We were going to sleep on the underground but it closed at some point. If i remember right, CaleyHE stumbled in near the end of the gig, blootered & had to be wrestled off one of the guitar players....possibly Mike Carson. A good laugh that i'd totally forgotten about until now. ;)

Can also remember CaleyHE playing a solo set on the maracas after their legendary gig at the Spectrum Centre

:thumb04: :018:

Edited October 6, 2008 by reefinweedallday

[Charles Bannerman]

Like it or not Charles, the history of both Caley and Thistle are important parts of the history of ICT. LSM was a part of that history on the Caley side. Alan may not want LSM associated with ICT or this ICT site in any way, and that is his right as one of the publishers, but those of us who did embrace the new club dont forget our roots. stuff like that should be preserved for posterity !!!! The same applies for the documents from up the hill !

If it means that the only place it can go is on Mantis' site or on a Thistle site for any of the thistle stuff then so be it. It would be a shame to see it disappear forever.

Scotty... I think I must have sacrificed clarity of expression for the sake of a bit of humour. What you've said above, especially the first sentence, mirrors my views entirely. The history and tradition of ICT are vitally dependent on, spiritually descended from and chronologically end on to the 108/9 years of Caley and Thistle, and you will also be aware from the penultimate chapter of my book that I regard Clach as a significant element too.

Historically LSM plays a particularly important part since it so eloquently, if not reverently, expressed the views of a number of Caledonian fans at the time of the transition from one vital phase of Inverness football history to another. Along parallel lines, it gives me great pleasure to see all the old Caley and Thistle photos on the walls about the stadium.

As it happens, BNP and a small number of others chose to terminate their association with football in Inverness at a particular point in its evolution, which continues.

By the way, there weren't (for once!) any expletives in the quote I was making from LSM which was the caption placed on the photo of the original Caley team of 1886 which appeared on the front cover of an issue of, I think, late 1993.

From memory, the full caption read: "Right lads, do we go on to become the greatest Highland League team in history or go and build a petrol station down the dump with Fiona Larg."

I always found the highlighted words an interesting format, given that the rather less grandiose struture of "the greatest team in the history of the Highland League" was a fairly obvious alternative!

[Guest]

By the way, there weren't (for once!) any expletives in the quote I was making from LSM which was the caption placed on the photo of the original Caley team of 1886 which appeared on the front cover of an issue of, I think, late 1993.

I think we'd decided to keep the swearing off the front cover (didn't want to offend punters before they'd parted with their cash).

As for the words you highlighted, fair enough, but Davy the painter may not have had the same grasp on the English language as your average journo.....bearing in mind he was an amateur. Not really a level playing field, can you hang wallpaper?

Edited October 7, 2008 by Guest

[old caley girl]

Alan I realise this is a matter of principle to you but I feel an archieve on here is a good idea. I think those of us about in those days have a duty to educate the young fans and incommers as to the origins of ICT and what people went through to both oppose the merger and form ICT. I would like to keep the memory of my beloved Caley alive and I'm sure Jags fans feel the same. It would be such a pity if archieve material got lost and hope LSM, for instance, can at least be posted on John's site or the Thistle archieve site. I just think a larger audience would be achieved on here. This site cant be that bad as far as you are concerned as you are posting on here like the rest of us. Caley D hope this idea is taken further with or without LSM (which I loved and probably find more entertaining today).

[CaleyHE]

Got all the issues of LSM in the loft at my in-laws (I hope!!!).

Credit also due to Black and Red All Over / 18 hours from Rotterdam which was also a good read.

Black and Red All Over #1

Black and Red All Over #2

I used to love LSM, great memories...to be fair the R&BAO fanzine provided some funny banter as well..my band at the time did an interview for Issue 2 ( link above)..strange to see the comments we made about the merger at that time and how far from the mark we were...

thanks for the memories

BC

Now i remember. A Gentle Sound. I used to work wi Carson for a few years & i knew Mark the singer reasonably well. And Glub. Saw you lot play a few times. At King Tuts too iirc.

Feckin hell i'm gettin on now.

Seen them at the barrows and king tuts, to name but a few, there was an interesting evening in ullapool also, and another somewhere down the west coast.

Watching AGS was akin to going to the fitba, in some places.. :018:

Got all the issues of LSM in the loft at my in-laws (I hope!!!).

Credit also due to Black and Red All Over / 18 hours from Rotterdam which was also a good read.

Black and Red All Over #1

Black and Red All Over #2

I used to love LSM, great memories...to be fair the R&BAO fanzine provided some funny banter as well..my band at the time did an interview for Issue 2 ( link above)..strange to see the comments we made about the merger at that time and how far from the mark we were...

thanks for the memories

BC

Now i remember. A Gentle Sound. I used to work wi Carson for a few years & i knew Mark the singer reasonably well. And Glub. Saw you lot play a few times. At King Tuts too iirc. :thumb04:

Feckin hell i'm gettin on now.

aah King Tuts...a good night, and your not the only one getting on

I'm sure a few of us stayed for the Rangers v selik game the next day. We were going to sleep on the underground but it closed at some point. If i remember right, CaleyHE stumbled in near the end of the gig, blootered & had to be wrestled off one of the guitar players....possibly Mike Carson. A good laugh that i'd totally forgotten about until now. ;)

Apparently so, so MC told me some weeks later.

Edited October 7, 2008 by CaleyHE

[BornCaley]

Got all the issues of LSM in the loft at my in-laws (I hope!!!).

Credit also due to Black and Red All Over / 18 hours from Rotterdam which was also a good read.

Black and Red All Over #1

Black and Red All Over #2

I used to love LSM, great memories...to be fair the R&BAO fanzine provided some funny banter as well..my band at the time did an interview for Issue 2 ( link above)..strange to see the comments we made about the merger at that time and how far from the mark we were...

thanks for the memories

BC

Now i remember. A Gentle Sound. I used to work wi Carson for a few years & i knew Mark the singer reasonably well. And Glub. Saw you lot play a few times. At King Tuts too iirc.

Feckin hell i'm gettin on now.

aah King Tuts...a good night, and your not the only one getting on

I'm sure a few of us stayed for the Rangers v selik game the next day. We were going to sleep on the underground but it closed at some point. If i remember right, CaleyHE stumbled in near the end of the gig, blootered & had to be wrestled off one of the guitar players....possibly Mike Carson. A good laugh that i'd totally forgotten about until now. :thumb04:

Ha ha , i dont recall that incident...although at 40 now, my memories are fading...i do remember falling of the stage at the end and having to be carried back on for the encore, very hard to play drums with a cracked ankle bone

[Guest]

Alan I realise this is a matter of principle to you but I feel an archieve on here is a good idea. I think those of us about in those days have a duty to educate the young fans and incommers as to the origins of ICT and what people went through to both oppose the merger and form ICT. I would like to keep the memory of my beloved Caley alive and I'm sure Jags fans feel the same. It would be such a pity if archieve material got lost and hope LSM, for instance, can at least be posted on John's site or the Thistle archieve site. I just think a larger audience would be achieved on here. This site cant be that bad as far as you are concerned as you are posting on here like the rest of us. Caley D hope this idea is taken further with or without LSM (which I loved and probably find more entertaining today).

I can see what you're saying ocg, but tbh I have a moral obligation to dissuade youngsters and/or anyone else from supporting ICT. :018: :thumb04:

[CaleyD]

The Archive/Online Musuem or whatever doesn't have to be hosted under this domain to become a reality or for us to offer assistance, it could be done elsewhere and we would quite happily link to it/them.

There's mountains of old photos, fanzines, programmes, interviews and more importantly, memories, out there on Thistle and Caley and it would be a shame to see them lost or forgotten.

I might not bare the same "grudges" as some with regards to the merger, but that doesn't mean that I'm not passionate about preserving that history.

[CaleyD]

I can see what you're saying ocg, but tbh I have a moral obligation to dissuade youngsters and/or anyone else from supporting ICT. 018.gif angel.gif

protest.gif

You can allow those who were more "accepting" or "pro" merger to write the history books....where you will be remembered as nothing but bitter refuseniks who's sole intention from 1994 onwards was to "do down" ICT, or...you can channel the energy from your anger/frustration/principles into making sure a more accurate account of the clubs history and the history of the terraces is provided for everyone, and that those who now support ICT are fully aware of the sacrifices that were made and just how much pain was caused (and why) by the merger in 1994.

Why dissuade kids from following ICT. All you do there is push them down the road of supporting another team who's history will have little, if any, connection to Caley. Surely if you want Caley to be remembered and appreciated then your best audience is those who now choose to follow ICT, those who will have an interest in finding out where their team came from and how they came about.

I'm not saying you should be out there recruiting ICT fans, but your current "policy" is entirely self defeating and does nothing to serve your "cause". Because (in your eyes) your team died, you wish to inflict that same pain on others, on youngsters who had nothing to do with the merger and knew nothing of it... on innocents?

[Guest]

You can allow those who were more "accepting" or "pro" merger to write the history books....where you will be remembered as nothing but bitter refuseniks who's sole intention from 1994 onwards was to "do down" ICT, Thats fine.

Why dissuade kids from following ICT. All you do there is push them down the road of supporting another team who's history will have little, if any, connection to Caley. Once again, thats fine.

I'm not saying you should be out there recruiting ICT fans, but your current "policy" is entirely self defeating and does nothing to serve your "cause". self-defeating in what way?

Because (in your eyes) your team died, you wish to inflict that same pain on others, on youngsters who had nothing to do with the merger and knew nothing of it... on innocents? Yes, tenfold.

Whilst i can joke & be civil to all of you,don't ever underestimate the bad feeling towards your club & the individuals responsible for its existence.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

He He , leopards and spots and all that

[CaleyD]

You can allow those who were more "accepting" or "pro" merger to write the history books....where you will be remembered as nothing but bitter refuseniks who's sole intention from 1994 onwards was to "do down" ICT, Thats fine.

Why dissuade kids from following ICT. All you do there is push them down the road of supporting another team who's history will have little, if any, connection to Caley. Once again, thats fine.

I'm not saying you should be out there recruiting ICT fans, but your current "policy" is entirely self defeating and does nothing to serve your "cause". self-defeating in what way?

Because (in your eyes) your team died, you wish to inflict that same pain on others, on youngsters who had nothing to do with the merger and knew nothing of it... on innocents? Yes, tenfold.

Whilst i can joke & be civil to all of you,don't ever underestimate the bad feeling towards your club & the individuals responsible for its existence.

Self defeating in so far as you attitude does nothing to serve or preserve the memory of the club you claim to have been so passionate about. Your stuck in one moment in time and whatever "bad feeling" your hanging on to seems to be clouding the fact that there's another 108 years of Caley History which should be remembered & celebrated regardless of the merger.

You can pass on the memories of your time following Caley (and give your account of the merger along with that) to the only ones who may be interested (the current/future ICT fans) or you can let them die along with you.

[Charles Bannerman]

As for the words you highlighted, fair enough, but Davy the painter may not have had the same grasp on the English language as your average journo.....bearing in mind he was an amateur. Not really a level playing field, can you hang wallpaper?

You underestimate the quality of writing in your own publication which I always thought was excellently composed and impressively incisive. The satire really was first rate. The distinction I was making between the alternative formats was actually a genuine one. I would indeed attribute the writers of LSM with the ability to distinguish the subtle differences between the meanings of "the greatest Highland League club in history" and "the greatest club in the history of the Highland League".... and in the case of Caley, consciously to opt for the former!

Whether LSM was written by Davie the Painter, Willie the Playwright or Rabbie the Poet is of no consequence to me whatsoever. It was always a very well written publication, irrespective of whether I personally agreed with its content in its latter days.

I have, right from day one, believed that some fans within the Caley and also the Thistle fold suffered a kind of "castration panic" on the realisation that a merger would deprive them of a significant object of hate. Those suffering in that way who decided to opt into ICT initially transferred that role to Ross County. Some of those who elected not to take up that option appear perhaps to have invested it in ICT - or have latterly returned to the fold.

Edited October 7, 2008 by Charles Bannerman