missing a bridge and a castle

[luvgravy]

From my recollection....you were behind the flag Scotty.

I'm right here:

[Scotty]

nahh - I am there .... and so is another SPL supporter - GaryJambo (guess which team he supports LOL)

[RednBlackComeback]

You're all standing up.......and there's no a steward in sight !!! :o

[luvgravy]

Ahhh...Gary's a good guy for a Jambo. Gives me someone to team up with when taking the **** with the Tims and Huns supporters.

But back on track...

The capo made a huge difference for us, but then again our problem has been coordinating the different groups in the South End. I know other teams use them in the MLS....Chicago would be a good example of what you're trying to do here....to get everyone up and on the same page.

You're all standing up.......and there's no a steward in sight !!! :o

Stewards stand between the stands and the pitch (along with the police) and at the entrances up from the concession/concourse area.

There are problems with them over reacting/under reacting in the stands here too....but for the most part everything is pretty cool

You also forgot to note us holding beer

[RednBlackComeback]

You also forgot to note us holding beer

Beer at the games too !!! :o :o :o :o :o :o

I'm emigrating !! :thumb04:

[Glen Mhor]

A Bridge and a Castle is a classic football song - so simple but sums up Sneck in two words.

I was sitting at the edge of Section G at the Hamilton Intellectuals match and after the lady steward waded in checking tickets and telling the boys they were in the wrong seats the singing and hence the atmosphere died there and then. If we're not allowed singing and chanting to back the team then the whole meaning goes out of being a supporter.

Come on Caley Thistle get a grip and let the boys have a song or two.

[jamie ictfc]

that steward was telling me it was my fault for everyone standing and her coming to chec tickets,i sit in the back row and she was telling me its my fault because it causes people infront to stand up,she is the worst steward ive seen in a whilst,she thinks shes the man in control of the 10 of us,if she was away i would enjoy the game,we stood for most the game on saturday and she wasnt there no1 complained,1 minuite into the hamilton game she was up

[CaleyD]

Compare the Stewarding at the Liverpool match with that you get at a League Match....Chalk and Cheese.

I stood for the entire 90 minutes+ of the Liverpool match, as did many of those around me and we didn't see hide nor hair of a Steward, and as far as I am aware their wasn't a single incident in the North Stand that required their intervention.

There's a lesson in there for the club/stewards, and that is....any "trouble" at League fixtures is in large part down to the way in which they are policing the fans. Leave them alone, and your not going to get any bother.

I understand that the SPL have certain rules that need adhering too, and it is them that say people cannot stand at league matches, but really....listen to the fans and instead of hammering them for doing something you will happily allow at any other time, stand up to the SPL and fight them on the matter and use matches such as cup games and the Liverpool game to show them that you have no problems when you lay off the fans.

[Proctor]

I tried to start singing at the Hamilton game; it failed. My cousens moved from the main stand (they are season ticket holders) for a better atmosphere. Next time I see a stewerd doing that to anybody in the section I and hopefully others will say something.

I would have thought stewerds would be more eager to police away fans, after all they know what to expect from ICT fans as they see us every home game whereas away fans are a reletivly unknown entity. Meaning it is harder to predict their behaviour.

[NigeyBear]

Would it not be possible for the Moderators to put a sticky topic on somewhere like the Beni board where people can add the words to the songs or chants that are sung at games? That way there is no excuses for anyone who doesn't join in!

[Alex MacLeod]

Would it not be possible for the Moderators to put a sticky topic on somewhere like the Beni board where people can add the words to the songs or chants that are sung at games? That way there is no excuses for anyone who doesn't join in!

I've done as you request and I'll monitor the use of the thread. The B.E.N.I forum is not used as much as had been anticipated so I hope you guys see that we Mods will bend over backwards to appease everyone. But it would be nice to see that our efforts are appreciated and that you'll use the facilities we provide at your request.

[ICTFCkev]

Bring back alcohol to football stadia and you will see the atmosphere improve.

Why is he not President of the SFA..

St Mirrens the next home game..

I say we make an effort for it and see how it goes?

Anyone else into it?

[chris123]

Bring back alcohol to football stadia and you will see the atmosphere improve.

Why is he not President of the SFA..

St Mirrens the next home game..

I say we make an effort for it and see how it goes?

Anyone else into it?

What getting alcohol back into football grounds

Good luck with that, If I am correct, alcohol was banned from grounds following Hillsborough.

[ICT90]

does any one no if the lady steward has gone if she has we will be able to stand more often as her replacement for the day didnt ask us to sit once

[Scotty]

If I am correct, alcohol was banned from grounds following Hillsborough.

nope. A ban was introduced after violent clashes during the 1980 Scottish Cup Final at Hampden Park in Glasgow.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/s...rem/7265902.stm

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

The "atmosphere" at TCS is poor becos - Scottish Football regulations totally deter the making of an atmosphere - the TCS stewards are IMHO the worst in the SPL - they single people out and try and make life a misery for them - they really do antagonise - why are they not like Hearts or Midden where the stewards concentrate their efforts on the Away supports.

I have always felt that Section G need a "leader" or a couple of head the balls - but would they be targetted ? When there is a few more pissed up senior citizens the singing prevails. But when the lads start off the North stand "sweetie rustlers" prevail.

I also note that there are pockets of singers dotted all over the North Stand but unless you have a concentrated mass it doesnt work - but look what feckin happened when they put us all together !!

Yes alcohol does help - and **** the kids with the sweary words - like Caley D says they no all the feckin words already.

Long live and prrosper the yoof of Section G - dont let the bestards get ya down.

I must arrange that home trip - and a lawyer. :thumb04:

[Council Juice]

It shows how bad the stewarding has become if fans dont even want to sing, stand, talk at games. Bit like the atmosphere at my work when the manager who will be known as "moobs" is in. Dead quite and tense..less work gets done though.

Section G is the song base. So good at their vocation they have become that people have become reliant apon their greatness :018: :thumb04:

Could drink not be moderated with tokens or a book with a stamp. Once book full for day you canna drink more. or once tokens used no more. And anyone already intoxicate refused drink.

Oh and stewards... its entertainment. Thats what football is. Your not policing a G8 summit and your not important people so get of your high horse and let us stand and sing a bit without getting out of order. ie treat people like "mature" adults.... except IHE. Just treat him like an adult perhaps The bit before isnt nessesary.

And everyone swears... Anyone with any sense knows when and where it should be used. Fitbaw is one of those should be used occasions!

[luvgravy]

Could drink not be moderated with tokens or a book with a stamp. Once book full for day you canna drink more. or once tokens used no more. And anyone already intoxicate refused drink.

Or....do it with economics an make them too expensive to get more than one or 2. Easy-peasy.

[Scotty]

I hate to keep harping back to TFC for my examples but as its the only regular football I see, then its my yardstick these days.

TFC has a "supporters section", part of which is shown in the photos above. Like the rest of the ground, it is 'all-seated' but the front office at TFC worked with the fans before the start of the first season to relax certain rules and set certain guidelines which apply only to this part of the ground.

• In the supporters section it is almost required to stand (in others sitting is enforced - but not strictly). If you dont stand, you wont see anything because everyone else is standing. The only part of standing that seems to be clamped down upon is when fans are standing on the seats from the row in front to get a better view which is fair enough as the seats can break when people start bouncing.
  
• The supporters section is allowed flags, drums, and certain noisemakers but no flares, air horns etc. A few have lit flares or smoke bombs and been huckled out which is also fair enough. Other parts of the ground have more restrictions.
  
• The whole ground has alcohol available to it but as Luvgravy mentioned, prices are quite steep ... anything from $9 - $13 for a beer. TFC has had a problem with some fans throwing beer onto the field when opponents come to take a corner or such like and this has led to some restrictions in the supporters section ... there are no more beer sellers going up and down the aisles in the supporters section and the sales stop around the 60th minute, but if you want to go to the concourse you can buy one up until then (and beyond I think).
  
• This past week has seen the introduction of the 'capo' stand which has been hailed a success. The front office know that they need atmosphere and despite ramping up security somewhat (because of beer throwers and other idiots spoiling it for the rest), they continue to work with the fans to try and create the atmosphere they (the club) want in the ground.
  

There are quite a few things the front office at TFC dont get right in many fans' eyes but when it comes to the supporters section, I think they do it pretty well. They are slowly but surely weeding out the real idiots and at least trying to encourage the real fans (and those from the season ticket waiting list that replace the idiots) to generate a formidable atmosphere.

The front office has lost no control by allowing fans to stand or to bring flags, in fact, many of the fans become self-policing in weeding out the idiots because they know that the privileges they have been given may be in jeopardy if they dont. There is a fair bit of respect towards certain named members of the front office staff who have worked with the fans and listened to them and even when things are not quite right between the fans and management, they still talk to each other.

If Toronto FC can do this with a whole stand at BMO field and still keep control over a 20,000+ crowd then there is no reason why ICT could not do this at the TCS with a 4000 crowd. I know they are bound by certain regulations or guidelines about standing and could potentially get into trouble for openly flaunting them but what is to stop them taking the fight to the SPL/SFA or whoever. They have done this before over bigger issues (SPL entry / stadium capacity) and won.

Why not work with a group like StandUpSitDown or similar and suggest a pilot scheme whereby the West Stand is allowed to be terracing or even a seated area where standing is 'tolerated' and the singers can congregate without having seat numbers constantly checked so they can be separated from each other by the killjoys. Work with the young lads who are only wanting to generate the atmosphere that has been lacking at the stadium for virtually every game since the stadium opened and embrace the fact they want to gee on the players rather than try to crush their enthusiasm. From the other side though, it means that those wanting to do this would also have to follow certain rules. There have been incidents in the past where fans were sitting on the wall or where some rushed one of the stewards and then complained it was the club's fault. If something could be done, then fans would need to view it as a privilege and not abuse it. If that can be achieved then maybe ICT could have accomplished yet another thing for Scottish football ................

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Scotty - been there and got the T-shirt - Rules, regulations and over zealous stewarding is killing the game - it aint an enjoyment anymore - it is trial and tribulation.

[luvgravy]

Perhaps the club should start making contact with the TFC FO and exchange notes

I still think that ICT should make a trip over for a friendly.....

[Scotty]

I hear you IHE !!!

Its a stark contrast to MLS where they are trying to develop the game and encourage more fans. The Toronto FC 'model' is seen as a breath of fresh air in MLS and its success although overshadowed in the media by Beckham's arrival in LA is seen as more important because it shows what can be achieved if a club focuses on football, the fans and entertainment.

Toronto FC is a pretty mediocre team so far, they are getting better, but they are still mediocre .... yet there is a 20,000+ crowd at every game and the waiting list for season tickets is now reputed to be more than EIGHT YEARS (due in no small part to the 99% retention rate of existing season ticket holders). Why is the list so long? why is the retention rate over 99%? ...... in my mind, it is because they want us to enjoy the experience and allow us to do so (within reason).

In the next few years the MLS will expand by several more teams - Seattle [2009] and Philadelphia [2010] have already been confirmed and there are rumours surrounding Cleveland, Milwaukee, Phoenix, Rochester, New York (2nd team), Miami, Vancouver, Montreal, Ottawa, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Portland, St Louis and Orlando. Most of these will be urged to follow the Toronto model which sees fans as an integral part of the whole experience.

Perhaps the club should start making contact with the TFC FO and exchange notes I still think that ICT should make a trip over for a friendly.....

no argument from me - although I can think of a few bodies in the Gate who might cringe LOL. But seriously, there would be no harm in ICT talking to the likes of Paul Beirne or others at TFC ... these guys work for MLSE who own many sports franchises and have many many years experience in marketing and making their teams popular .... even when they arent winning things !!!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Scotty - Remember the days when you could get well oiled before the game - stand and sing freely on the terraces - engage in "harmless" banter with peers and away fans - enjoy the craic and go back happily to the pub ?

Well nowadays ya are apprehensive about what is classed as intoxicated at a football ground - you are apprehensive about standing up and singing - you are apprehensive about being lifted for pettiness - and possibly spite. Jobs, careers, aspirations and livelihoods can be at stake - that is feckin frightening !!

There is only one thing fer it as far as I am concerned - I am feckin emigrating to Toronto.

[Guest RPFaither]

This looks like another case where it would be good to talk! I haven't experienced the woman steward referred to but I'd be very surprised if she was acting off her own back. Stewards and police will always get a pre-match briefing on what is expected of them from their supervisors. Some of the instructions will be as a result of communication with the Club, some will be because it is law. IMO it would be worthwhile getting an interview with a senior club official/head steward/police commander and find out exactly what is being policed and why. Then post the replies on this site for everyone to see!

I think if you speak to other supporters you'll find numerous criticisms of stewarding/policing at their grounds.

[Scotty]

Scotty - Remember the days when you could get well oiled before the game - stand and sing freely on the terraces - engage in "harmless" banter with peers and away fans - enjoy the craic and go back happily to the pub ?

Indeed I do. I also remember the days at the Caledonian Stadium (as it was then) when although not standing for long periods we could do so without hassles, we could also get banter going with opposing players and management from above the tunnel and then go back to the pub to dissect all that was good or bad about the game ... in short, an enjoyable day out.

Well nowadays ya are apprehensive about what is classed as intoxicated at a football ground - you are apprehensive about standing up and singing - you are apprehensive about being lifted for pettiness - and possibly spite. Jobs, careers, aspirations and livelihoods can be at stake - that is feckin frightening !!

I actually felt this on my last visit. the atmosphere when we were demolishing Kilmarnock 3-0 during my last visit was at best, subdued, but compared to my days as a ST holder it was morgue-like. Even the craic in the pub before the game was different with a lot less anticipation or enthusiasm for the game. Seems many felt it was a chore to go (although that might have been becuae the only home victory in 2008 up to that point was against Gretna). Also, after the game, virtually no-one was back at the pub - was that economics? or was it the fact that they left the stadium in a far less happy mood than in previous years. We had just scored an impressive 3-0 win yet no-one wanted to celebrate that fact. shame.

There is only one thing fer it as far as I am concerned - I am feckin emigrating to Toronto.

Oh ****

This looks like another case where it would be good to talk! I haven't experienced the woman steward referred to but I'd be very surprised if she was acting off her own back. Stewards and police will always get a pre-match briefing on what is expected of them from their supervisors. Some of the instructions will be as a result of communication with the Club, some will be because it is law.

agreed. BUT some actions by stewards are because the "power" goes to their heads. I agree its a problem at other grounds too, but perhaps because of our lower crowds, or the inconsistencies between home and away ends its just more apparent here.