Credit where credit's due

[Guest Spectre]

Reality check:

- We are doing no better or no worse than all comparable teams, all of whom have put in some good and some bad performances.

- After many years of relative stability we needed to blood new talent, something which is being done reasonably successfully.

- Brewster is not solely responsible for our inexperience up front, he did not force Marius out, Wyness no longer cuts it, maybe he could have kept Bayne but he scores no more frequently than our young lads.

- We are, some of the time, playing more attractive football than in the recent past.

Replacing the manager is a knee-jerk reaction. It's not as though we are Tottenham having spent ?millions adrift at the bottom of the table.

It's clearly going to be a very tight season with no 'Gretna' to bail us out...we should be getting behind the team.

[Jay_7]

Reality check:

- In the last 10 months we have lost 18 times. An abysmal record compared to the teams immediately around us.

- Brewster is directly responsible for the team he picks to play on matchday and the tactics he chooses to employ. Too many times I have seen the long ball being used, if that's not in the tactics, it's about time he dropped those who use it.

- Before Park left, we were a respectable team and other teams did not look forward to playing us. Fast forward 10 months and we have Malky in place most teams relish the thought of picking up points at our expense.

It's clearly going to be a tight season and I don't particularly want to rely on flukey wins to see us clear of relegation.

[mainstander]

- In the last 10 months we have lost 18 times. An abysmal record compared to the teams immediately around us.

So let me see - that means that the teams round about us have been doing a lot better than we have does it?

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Of course the teams around us ( Aberdeen, Falkirk , Hibs ) have done better than us. do you follow football Mainstander?

[Yngwie]

As for the real issue at hand here: Brewster must go. What odds on him fielding exactly the same team as Saturday against Falkirk at home?...

I rest my case...

If that's your case, I'd be inclined to find the defendant not guilty!

[Jay_7]

- In the last 10 months we have lost 18 times. An abysmal record compared to the teams immediately around us.

So let me see - that means that the teams round about us have been doing a lot better than we have does it?

In a word - Yes. We have taken 0 points from 18 games this year so far. St Mirren and Falkirk have both only lost 13 times in that same length of time. If you can't understand why that consitutes those teams doing a lot better than us in the same period of time then that's frankly, not my problem.

If that's your case, I'd be inclined to find the defendant not guilty!

You think it'd be acceptable to field exactly the same team and use the same tactics at home against Falkirk do you?...

[Council Juice]

The lads did well yesterday so credit where its due - Well Done.

It doesnt stop the fact that Brewster has made some bewildering decisions in his time and results in general of late have been pretty poor.

I was backing Brew for a fair while. Given his limited resources it's not an easy job but he doesnt always make it easy for himself with odd tactical decisions.

Hope thats them ended the rot but the jury is still out IMHO

[KingBeastie]

The weekend was one of the best performances I've seen in a LONG while.

The defence definetly has more confidence with Esson behind them.

The passing was great to watch at times.

A thoroughly good show and I'm delighted with the 3 points.

However our results since the start of 2008 still worry me.

Lets get 1 thing clear - I do not want to see ICT do badly.

I don't want to see Brew do badly as it means ICT do badly but it is my opinion that he is not cut out for the job and I think we'd be better without him at the helm.

I'd be feckin more than happy to admit I'm wrong and that he is the right man to take ICT forward but (and I don't expect the blinkered ralph milne to get this) 1 win does not mean everything is rosy.

I was behind the team at Easter Rd at the weekend and I will continue to get behind the team as I did before Brewsters first reign, during his first reign and now.

Not thinking that Brew is the right manager for ICT does not mean you can't support and get behind the team. My throat was hoarse from cheering them on at 4.45 on Saturday.

I don't see many (if any at all) of the anti Brew bigade trying to get the pro brigade to change thier minds so could those in the pro Brew camp please stop telling everyone else what they should be thinking and that we are not getting behind our team.

[Guest Spectre]

I don't see many (if any at all) of the anti Brew bigade trying to get the pro brigade to change thier minds so could those in the pro Brew camp please stop telling everyone else what they should be thinking and that we are not getting behind our team.

I'm not "pro-Brew" or "anti-Brew", but I am anti the continual negativity. If the "anti-Brew" brigade are not trying to change peoples minds, why the plethora of threads and posts. OK I accept many of you do get behind the team, fair point, but collectively all fans need to do more at home games.

The jury's out on Brew, for many of the reasons you state, but the point remains this season we are doing no worse than anyone else. I agree the results from Jan to the end of last season were abysmal but we have often underperformed after being safe and rolling it into this seasons performances isn't really fair, not least because of the changes in the squad.

[Harry Chibber]

Great win and delighted the team pulled it out of the bag (I for one didn't expect anything) but disappointed that out of the 2 scorers not 1 was a striker

You either need a solid defence or an on form striker to stay in this division and just now we have neither

I think Brew has a lot of work to do in January if we are going to stay in the SPL next season

[PullMyFinger]

I don't see many (if any at all) of the anti Brew bigade trying to get the pro brigade to change thier minds so could those in the pro Brew camp please stop telling everyone else what they should be thinking and that we are not getting behind our team.

I'm not "pro-Brew" or "anti-Brew", but I am anti the continual negativity. If the "anti-Brew" brigade are not trying to change peoples minds, why the plethora of threads and posts. OK I accept many of you do get behind the team, fair point, but collectively all fans need to do more at home games.

The jury's out on Brew, for many of the reasons you state, but the point remains this season we are doing no worse than anyone else. I agree the results from Jan to the end of last season were abysmal but we have often underperformed after being safe and rolling it into this seasons performances isn't really fair, not least because of the changes in the squad.

Who's to blame for that then, if not Brewster?

[Guest Spectre]

I'm just saying it's not particularly fair to look at calendar 2008 performances as a whole.

[CaleyD]

Right....so we're only allowed to look at the good performances when judging a Managers ability?

[Scotty]

For me it is all about consistency ...... I wholeheartedly accept that I am not watching the games in person and that listening on Internet radio, or snatching a small windowed video feed when possible (for OF games), does not give you the same perspective as someone who was at the game but you dont need to be at the game to know we are terribly inconsistent.

• We have not won two back-to-back league games since April
  
• We have only won once in six attempts at home this season (last year W9, D2, L8)
  
• We have won three times away from home this season so far (last year W4, D2, L13). Considering we only won 4 times away from home last season, maybe this will turn out better !!!
  
• Our form from the start of season is W-L-D-W-L-L-W-L-L-L-L-W (home games in red) so the only streaks we have had so far are losing ones.
  
• Our form last season contained 6 "streaks" from the opening 6 game losing streak (4 of which were with CC or DP at the helm, to a streak of 5 wins mid-season and then that worrying streak of 7 straight defeats from 20th Feb through to 5th April. L-L-L-L-//-L-L-W-W-D-L-W-L-L-W-W-W-W-W-L-W-L-W-L-D-D-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-W-W-L-W-L-D
  

You can call me anti-Brewster if you want, but the simple truth is that I am still in the undecided camp although I am leaning more heavily towards the "anti" crew. I have chopped and changed my perspective on Brewster ever since he was appointed for the second time ... its part of the deal when you are "undecided" !!! Some weeks I feel he IS the man for the job, other weeks I couldnt see him far enough .....

The Rangers game was another of these "swingometer" games and I have to admit that apart from basing my comments on my own perspective from watching that game on a crappy video feed, I was also swayed by the comments of those who were at the game such as the eternal optimist of all things ICT (Alex) who quite literally stated that the team did not appear to be trying. If it had been one of our more negative posters, that comment would not have resonated with me so much, but for Alex to say it, I know things must have gone badly awry for him to make that statement.

Saturday's result may have pushed me back more towards the centre of the undecided camp as it was a pleasure to listen to the game, and to see the comments from posters who were at it. Was it luck? Did the manager get it right? were the players embarrassed by their capitulation the previous week? who knows .... For me, once again the question will come down to consistency .... We have two winnable games coming up and if Brewster can motivate the players, set tactics that will work, pick the best starting 11, and hopefully achieve a result, then maybe he can start convincing us. Hell, we dont even have to win all our games, for many of them, I would be happy that we gave 100% and that even if we lost, we knew we had tried our best (like the recent Celtic defeat). However, I cannot and will not accept the way we just laid down for Rangers. ICT dont do that.

[Jay_7]

I'm just saying it's not particularly fair to look at calendar 2008 performances as a whole.

and why not?...

[Guest Spectre]

Reasons already stated.

[Jay_7]

Reasons already stated.

The only reason (note singular) you've stated are changes in personnel. We've lost 3 strikers. We've signed 1 striker with potential, 1 work-shy striker (from what I'm told), an excellent goalkeeper and a poor excuse for a footballer.

As I interpret that, we should arguably be doing worse than last season. If I take 2008's stats and compare them to every other teams 2008 stats, I fail to see how the comparison is unfair.

[Guest Spectre]

I agree the results from Jan to the end of last season were abysmal but we have often underperformed after being safe and rolling it into this seasons performances isn't really fair, not least because of the changes in the squad.

Reason 1. We have often under-performed post-safety

Reason 2. Squad changes

[Jay_7]

I agree the results from Jan to the end of last season were abysmal but we have often underperformed after being safe and rolling it into this seasons performances isn't really fair, not least because of the changes in the squad.

Reason 1. We have often under-performed post-safety

Reason 2. Squad changes

That's a ridiculous statement to make. So because poor performance is the "norm" once we are mathematically safe, we should just accept it?!

Should we all just be happy that we are in the SPL at all?... Clearly us fans have no reason to feel unhappy. Brewster for Prime Minister...

[CaleyD]

Reason 1 is a Myth.......our post split results

07/08 - W L W L D

06/07 - W D L W W

05/06 - W W W W W

[KingBeastie]

I think Spectre has a point in that the results are across 2 different seasons.

However the others also have a point in that the results are rubbish (when taken into consideration over that length of time).

One thing we will all agree on - None of us want that form and inconsitency to continue.

[Guest Spectre]

Well I said post-safety not post-split - how often have we been challenging for top six only to fall away compared to other clubs, every year apart from the first (after which we only got 2 more points I think).

I dind't say the performances post-safety are acceptable, just that it's not fair - substitute "meaningful" if you prefer, to add the two seasons together.

And yes, the point of my original post 'reality check' to some extent is we should be happy with SPL survival, unless somebody wants to pump ?millions into the club.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Spectre

[mainstander]

Of course the teams around us ( Aberdeen, Falkirk , Hibs ) have done better than us. do you follow football Mainstander?

I would have thought that by definition the teams around us would have been doing roughly the same as us?

[Jay_7]

Well said post-safety not post-split - how often have we been challenging for top six only to fall away compared to other clubs, every year apart from the first (after which we only got 2 more points I think).

I dind't say the performances post-safety are acceptable, just that it's not fair - substitute "meaningful" if you prefer, to add the two seasons together.

And yes, the point of my original post 'reality check' to some extent is we should be happy with SPL survival, unless somebody wants to pump ?millions into the club.

A view many do not share on here, myself included. It is exactly that kind of attitude that saw Brewster get reappointed.

[Scotty]

Spectre has a point about post safety .... and that has got to be down to motivation .... what was said to the players in 05/06 that was different to every other season ? or did the idea of a bigger bonus for finishing higher mean more to them then than in subsequent seasons ?

Motivation is part of the manager's job .... we should also expect a modicum of it to come naturally from professional players so there is a sharing of blame if the motivation is not there.

I want to see an ICT where the players are motivated for every game, even the "small" ones, and where they at least try to be consistent in those games. Of course we are going to lose games, and have off days, but if we look like we are trying, and the players seem motivated, then it is a far easier pill to swallow. If we can get those two things going, the manager and players would also get a little more leeway for the odd bad performance.