Contracts (Merged)

[davieB]

Only Munro signed didn't he?

So that leaves Black, Fraser, and Cowie still to sign.

This looks worringly like the Dargo situation, week after week there was no news, then he signed elsewhere. I've no idea what process contract talks go through, but find it worrying when there's no news about contracts that were offered a while ago now.

With all the rumours about Cowie I think it's almost certain we're going to lose him very soon, but it's Blackie I'm more concerned about. If we were to lose him as well....

[PullMyFinger]

Only Munro signed didn't he?

So that leaves Black, Fraser, and Cowie still to sign.

This looks worringly like the Dargo situation, week after week there was no news, then he signed elsewhere. I've no idea what process contract talks go through, but find it worrying when there's no news about contracts that were offered a while ago now.

With all the rumours about Cowie I think it's almost certain we're going to lose him very soon, but it's Blackie I'm more concerned about. If we were to lose him as well....

It's all part of Brews masterplan to surround himself with yesmen.

[Hiro]

Are Vigurs and Wood not out of contract too? I can't find the story on the official site but I thought they were only given 1 year deals.

Every year we get caught out by this although maybe this is changing (Barrowman and Rooney are on 3 year deals??)

[Glebeict]

Someones not doing their job

[roby]

Are Vigurs and Wood not out of contract too? I can't find the story on the official site but I thought they were only given 1 year deals.Yes Vigours , Wood and Jamie Duff who incidently is gaining his first under 21 cap for Scotland are all out of contract and can be snapped up for nothing come January. If our manager cannot see fit to at least offer these 3 youngsters some sort of deal then he is an even worse judge than i thought. Can you imagine what state our club will be in if we lose them along with Cowie and Black. It would be like handing over the crown jewels for nothing!

Every year we get caught out by this although maybe this is changing (Barrowman and Rooney are on 3 year deals??)

[RiG]

Someones not doing their job

Doesn't Bennet over see contract negotiations?

[Alex MacLeod]

Cowie and Fraser have both said they dont want to discuss contracts just yet. I think most of the squad are out of contract come the summer. Not all of them have agents so they should be getting sorted now. No excuses there. With agents it can be difficult to get all parties together at the same time.

[starchief]

Didn't Black say he wanted to talk. I really get the impression he'll be forced to look elsewhere soon. All part of the 'we offered a deal but he wasn't interested' strategy. If there's no talk within the next couple of weeks, how can Black not begin to look out for himself and his family?

[CaleyD]

IMO, we shouldn't be waiting till the 11th hour to be having contract talks with Players like Black & Cowie. These are guys who have value and they should never have anything less than 12 months remaining on their contracts.

By allowing this to happen the club weaken their own position at the contract talks.

Scenario 1 - Player has 12+ months left on contract and the club sit down to talk to them. Player isn't keen to sign or wants more more than we can afford to give them. Club can then put them on the transfer list at the next window and sell them for a decent amount due to them having a year on their contract.

Scenario 2 - Player has less than 12 months left on contract and club sit down to talk to them. Player isn't being offered what he hoped for so holds out till he's only got 6 months left and can talk to other clubs, perhaps get other offers and then leave for free in the summer. The club could sell early, but aren't likely to get anything close to what player is worth.

By doing things the way they are done just now the club severely weaken their position at the negotiating table. Not only that, but if a player isn't having to wait till the last minutes to get a new deal then they're going to feel that they are valued more and may not feel the need to be looking elsewhere during the final 6 to 12 months of their current contract.

It's a win-win scenario most of the time as the club don't have the constant fear of losing their better players and the players have a little more job security and that can count for a lot in football, especially at this level where the wages aren't astronomical and looking for that step up can be a bit of a gamble.

[Guest Spectre]

I agree in theory, but in practice you can't force someone to extent their contract unless you can put enough money on the table to keep them happy. I'm guessing with Cowie and Black that would be difficult, I'm afraid.

[CaleyP]

I agree in theory, but in practice you can't force someone to extent their contract unless you can put enough money on the table to keep them happy. I'm guessing with Cowie and Black that would be difficult, I'm afraid.

i have to agree, saying that though we might have been able to pay our better players more money if we weren't paying players like barrowman the wages he is on...its a complete joke that he is one of the top earners at the club. caley are paying the wrong players the bigger money...and i just cant help but feel its what the club deserve if they loose players because they cant afford to keep them because they're paying crap players too much. is there anyone in the management and board at caley that actually know anything about football and what talent is?

Edited November 19, 2008 by CaleyP

[CaleyD]

I agree in theory, but in practice you can't force someone to extent their contract unless you can put enough money on the table to keep them happy. I'm guessing with Cowie and Black that would be difficult, I'm afraid.

You can't force them to extend, but at least by dealing with things sooner it leaves the club the option to sell them when they still have time left on the contract and therefore can command a bit of money, than to let them go 6 or 12 months down the line for nothing.

[stevico1]

If it was just 1 player you might put it down to the player been difficult to deal with but its not its a few of our key players, with the transfer window opening in a short while not to have them tied up is crazy. I thought I read somewhere that these contracts were been dealt with in the last International break, either that didnt happen or didnt go as well as planned.

As Caley D says these contracts negotiations should have happened at the start of the season we are not talking about a couple of players that have to prove themselves, one was the player of the year last year and the other is the player of the season so far. If clubs come in for them at Xmas the club have very little bargaining power

Edited November 19, 2008 by stevico1

[ICT002]

we are tight fisted even for our best players (black and cowie). offer them money close to what they are asking for unless we have realistic targets out there. i doubt that we do though that match their quality and we can hardly have faith in brewsters signings can we? also a bit worrying that it looks like we have 3 or 4 good youngsters coming through and starting to play who will be on peanuts. we better be careful we dont lose out there too!

[Scotty]

At the end of the day we are assuming the club are at fault here, and that could well be true but has anyone considered that the players might also be taking time to consider their options..... I think Cowie was quoted as having said something to that effect quite recently.

Also .... If there are problems behind the scenes - as has been speculated with comments about lack of respect for the manager etc - then its only natural that employees might take there time before committing to more of the same.

[stevico1]

At the end of the day we are assuming the club are at fault here, and that could well be true but has anyone considered that the players might also be taking time to consider their options..... I think Cowie was quoted as having said something to that effect quite recently.

Scotty agreed that the players may be taking time to think it over, my main concern is why we didnt start the discussions at the start of the season as opposed to now, maybe a perfectly good reason I just think it is a dangerous game game to be playing with our key players

[Scotty]

I would agree with that Stevico.

[gillian black]

Someones not doing their job

Doesn't Bennet over see contract negotiations?

It is my belief that this is a large part of his remit, he hasnt got a clue, i am also led to believe CB has asked Black if they have spoken to him or his agent, to which he has replied, NO, so what does this tell us, I cant believe this is happening, Blackie, Cowie etc will be away at Xmas or at least they will be committed to other clubs by January, due to the fact that they feel demoralised, angry, frustrated, p***** off, to the extent if i'm not wanted i'll go elsewhere, they need to look out for their families etc, many of the quotes I believe are spot on this should have been tied up long ago, or money made from them moving, personality clashes or not, the boys are doing their bit on the park what is Bennet doing, sweet F A, i too have said Brew needs to go, but it goes deeper than that, the rest have to go first, then maybe Brew would improve. Once again ICT will suffer because of the idiots at the top of the tree.

[CaleyP]

Someones not doing their job

Doesn't Bennet over see contract negotiations?

It is my belief that this is a large part of his remit, he hasnt got a clue, i am also led to believe CB has asked Black if they have spoken to him or his agent, to which he has replied, NO, so what does this tell us, I cant believe this is happening, Blackie, Cowie etc will be away at Xmas or at least they will be committed to other clubs by January, due to the fact that they feel demoralised, angry, frustrated, p***** off, to the extent if i'm not wanted i'll go elsewhere, they need to look out for their families etc, many of the quotes I believe are spot on this should have been tied up long ago, or money made from them moving, personality clashes or not, the boys are doing their bit on the park what is Bennet doing, sweet F A, i too have said Brew needs to go, but it goes deeper than that, the rest have to go first, then maybe Brew would improve. Once again ICT will suffer because of the idiots at the top of the tree.

yep i agree with that.

[Fanoffooty]

Not a good season so far & if we lose any more of our quality players then i fear the worst

Come on ICT get these boys signed , you know it makes sense

[StockholmSyndrome]

It frustrates me that this same pattern gets repeated year after year after year. At best the club is incredibly naive in this respect, and I would agree that Bennett is not doing his job. We've lost so many good players over the years because of this kind of incompetence.

[PullMyFinger]

We are a selling club, end off. It would be nice though, to retain the talent for another season and reap the benefits on the park which would also increase the value of the players (if they agreed to appropriate extension of course).

[CaleyD]

What makes you think we are a selling club? We should be a selling club, but in reality all we do is gift our best players to the competition for nothing or next to nothing every season.

Rankin, Wyness, Niculae, Bayne, Hart, Dods, Dargo, Brown....all players who immediately spring to mind as having left for a fraction of what they were worth...or worse, nothing at all. In fact, I can't think of a single instance when we sold a player and, at the time, thought it was a good bit of business.

[PullMyFinger]

That's the point I was trying to make, contract negotiations before players are considering their future options will require investment in the short term, but should improve cash flow in the long term either through results if they are retained or transfer fees should they go. Clubs are also less likely to poach players who have a 2 or 3 year contract unless they are outstanding and hence worth a lot more.

[Kingsmills]

Not sure what the situation is with the others but, in fairness to the club, Cowie was made a concrete offer months ago and it's his decision to delay either accepting or rejecting.