UltraJags

3 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

It doesn't sound as though you have taken anything on board at all.  You say "some of which they know fine well didn't do any damage." but my post was all about the fact that this is not just about the damage.  It is about behaviour in general and the absolute need for the bus driver not to be distracted.  I acknowledge that you have not defended the actions of anyone on the bus and I assume from that that you at least acknowledge some folk behaved inappropriately.  What you seem unable to appreciate is the seriousness of this.  I am sure you accept that sanctions must be taken against anyone causing malicious damage but the more pertinent issue here is what actions should be taken against those whose behaviour was not in any way malicious but which, nevertheless, was inappropriate and inadvertently put people at risk.

My knowledge of events is only what I've read, but whatever the truth of what went on is, the key consideration here must be to ensure that this kind of thing does not happen again.  It is clear that there are some at least for whom a ban is completely justified.  It may be that there are several youngsters who got sucked into the bad behaviour by peer pressure and perhaps against their better judgement.  It would be a great shame if they got banned when a talking to and getting them to appreciate the potential consequences of such behaviour might well do the trick.  But then again, some of these lads may well have been warned before for all  I know.  What I do know is that the actions of the club and the Travel Club will be aimed at ensuring that safe travel is available for people who wish to support the team.  If some innocent lads are being unfairly banned then the fault for that lies squarely with the morons who caused the trouble in the first place.  The club tries to provide a service which offers as cheap and convenient transport to games as possible. Remember, people give up their own time to organise this on a voluntary basis for the benefit of others.  If you want to use the service, you abide by the rules.  That's the deal.  

And please don't spout that cr*p about the club losing a group of fans for good.  If the club has lost a small handful of morons  then good riddance to them.  The genuine fans amongst the youngsters will keep coming to the games - because that is what fans do.  

I was referring to the travel club losing a group of fans that would not use their bus, not the football club. 

I know now the truth of what happened.

However I feel this is getting nowhere. We have similar view points on fan safety/travel concerns etc but can't agree on how it should have been handled. 

20 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

But it's not just about the damage.  I don't know what the Travel club have decided or why, but there are general points which apply in any situation like this.  The driver is responsible for the safety of everyone on board and for other road users.  If the driver is briefly distracted then disaster can result.  One only has to think of the tragedy down South recently when 13 people died in a minibus crash when it appeared that the driver did not realise soon enough that the lorry in the motorway lane in front of him was actually stationary.  I personally had a narrow escape a few years back when stationary at traffic lights on the A9 Spey Bridge at Kingussie.  The driver of a coach behind did not realise the traffic was stopped until too late.  The driver slammed on his brakes whilst I looked in my mirror with increasing concern / horror about whether the coach was going to stop in time.  As it happened, the last of the traffic going in the other direction had passed and the driver was able to move into the other lane and finally stopped level with me.  It was a very scary incident with my life literally in the coach driver's hands.

Whether people are guilty of damaging the bus or not , over exuberant behaviour, even when good natured can be distracting for the driver and puts people at risk.  Most people understand that, but it seems that some of the youngsters  have yet to grasp that simple truth.  D&E may not have banned anyone but they may well have told the Travel Club that they will not be hiring out buses to us if there is any repetition of that behaviour.  As for the mess: if I gave someone a lift and they left empty cans and bottles  and chip papers (and probably a few chips) strewn around my vehicle, you can be pretty sure I wouldn't be giving them a lift again.  I don't see why D&E should be expected to tolerate such ignorant and disrespectful behaviour 

The more mature and sensible lads amongst our young support will appreciate that the club and the travel club have absolutely no option but to take firm action here.  I fully accept that some lads who are generally innocent of the bad behaviour may be affected by this, but the only people who are responsible for that are the the moronic ring leaders of the trouble.  It is to them they should direct  their grievances.

Of course, if 30 are being banned from travelling with the Travel Club, that should be enough to hire their own bus and take the responsibility for that.  They just might see things differently then.  What a shame that the great job many of the youngsters are doing in providing enthusiastic vocal support for the team should be ruined by a small number of d*ckheads.  Get rid of these morons lads, and get back to doing what you do so well.

I take onboard what you have said, and if you check my comments I have not defended the actions of anyone on that bus, it's the reaction to it since and how the travel club have tried to hide behind D&E for banning folk from the bus, some of which they know fine well didn't do any damage. 

Anyway, nothing will change and they will have lost a group of fans now for good

39 minutes ago, izzy said:

Quite sure if you check FB you will find its updated also .

Putting it on Facebook 10 minutes after I called you out on it ??

7 minutes ago, old caley girl said:

Why was the owner of DandE in press quoted as saying they were? Also said the mess left behind was worst he had seen? 

Don't recall seeing a bit in the paper saying he had banned them, I don't condone the mess but not exactly worthy of banning orders, perhaps all 30 of them broke the fan?

1 minute ago, izzy said:

To be fair to the 30 fans who had already booked bus to St Mirren before price increase,this will now not take effect till Dumbarton bus on 23rd September .

Facebook post says it takes effect from 9th. Which is it? 

1 minute ago, jingsmonty said:

Probably cheaper than the SFA fines the club would have to pay if they had done nothing....

This is nothing to do with what happened in the ground 

37 minutes ago, Fraz said:

No ideas how long, the statement wasn't clear. Have they been banned though? I haven't seen any public announcement to that effect. 

I used to help run the buses and it's a thankless task. People moan it's too expensive, people moan if you don't put on a bus cos you know it's gonna lose money, people moan if it's too quiet, people moan if it's too noisy, people moan if it doesn't stop enough, people moan if it stops too much, people moan it leaves too early, people moan it leaves too late....

It's quite possible that the coach company threatened to remove their service (they have before I believe) if people who are causing damage, causing the driver hassle etc arr not dealt with as ultimately the driver and the hirer are responsible. There's no way the travel club will want to lose money and they defo want to get as many fans to games as possible but they're left in an impossible situation. Somebody has to take responsibility. 

All I know is that over 30 people got banned by the travel club (not D&E) with no proof that single one of them caused the damage. 

For what it's worth I don't approve of driver abuse etc but very poorly handled imo 

27 minutes ago, Fraz said:

What difference would it make? I thought they were boycotting the games anyway?

How long will that last? Think my point is still valid, banning that many people cannot make good business sense.

Is this code for "we have banned 30+ members, so we need to make up for our self inflicted losses"?????