Keybaird Warrior

Discuss 

If I were in the Armed Forces and I considered popping along to the event, then I'd think again after reading this thread. If the amount of negativity and red dots from ICT fans on this thread is a snapshot of ICT fans views towards our countries Armed Forces, then that is a sad state of affairs for a town that has has had a long history with Scottish regiments. 

14 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

I am not sure that the jingoistic neoimperialist example of the USA, especially under it's present leadership, is something to be admired. It certainly isn't something to be copied.

I mean the patriotism of the American public towards their forces.

Well done ICT. It's a great idea to show support for our troops. I often look at the patriotism of the Americans and how they show support. I wish we had that level of enthusiasm for our soldiers in this country. The sacrifices they make are not acknowledged enough imho. Top marks to the club for this. ??????

Very sad news today hearing about the death of Terry's son. Thoughts are with the Butcher family. 

"extend their unbeaten run" ???

3 hours ago, tm4tj said:

Story in the Courier

9 minutes ago, Renegade said:

Oh Jesus, not this again.   Zzzzzzzzz.

I know eh? It wasn't even his squad etc etc. Worst manager ever etc etc. 

The seeds were sewn when the club got rid of a Scottish Cup winnng manager. The rest, as they say is history. 

8 minutes ago, Laurence said:

Did JH not get sacked at Hartlepool , I am thinking from memory here, the seed of Hartlepool's demise might have originated from his tenure.

They sacked him at the end of the season, yes. He took over half way through the season when they were well adrift, had a mini revival but couldn't keep them up. Results improved under him but Pool fans say it was too late. Perhaps if he had been appointed a month earlier.  Their forums at the time wanted him to stay to try and gain promotion and were surprised. It is similar to us with Butcher. We improved under him but still got relegated, but the club didn't sack him (rightly so)

7 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

You are quite right. Your opinion is as valid as anyone's and certainly every bit as valid as mine.

I can back mine up with a few facts; John, as you call him, took over at Falkirk, initially as co manager with Owen Coyle, and dud well with the squad of players he inherited including gaining promotion to the then SPL. Once that squad began to break up he persuaded their chairman to allow him to spend a record sum for them, in bringing in replacements who were almost all players of a certain vintage who had played with JH himself, all were on eye watering salaries and none were a success. Falkirk plummeted down the league and were, somewhat ironically, only saved from relegation by the fact that we were so bad that season under Brewster that we went down instead. When he left, Falkirk were in considerable debt, had a poor and ageing squad, there were credible reports of dressing room division and unrest. Falkirk were relegated shortly thereafter and have yet to recover. Does that sound at all familiar ?

At Hubs, he inherited a decent squad and initially did well with another manager's players even qualifying for Europe. Once he started to recruit his own players their form nosedived and they plummeted down the league playing football that, as well as being ineffective, was eye wateringly boring to watch. It got so bad that JH, despite being a bit of a playing legend for them, was routinely and loudly jeered by Hibs fans. When he was sacked the squad was poor and ageing and there were credible reports of dressing room division and unrest. Hibs, despite their considerable resources, were eventually relegated, ironically again with another ICT connection and have only just recovered. Does that sound familiar ? To be fair, he did source and recruit one decent player in the form of Anthony Stokes.

His time at Livingston was brief and uneventful as he jumped ship as soon as he was lured by the bright lights of Harlepool who, to be fair, are the third biggest team in England with the suffix pool in their name. He was unsuccessful there, the team played unattractive and unsucesful football and he was sacked.

We know all about his time with us. He was very successful with Terry Butcher's players but when that squad broke up, despite the fact that he was given a record sum, by some margin, by the then chairman, he signed a succession of duds. Only two decent players were recruited; Greg Tansey who the club knew all about before and Miles Storey who was, by all accounts, identified by the chairman. JH was eventually sacked amid credible reports of dressing room unrest and division, we were subsequently relegated and have yet to recover.

He went on to manage Raith Rovers who were relegated and he was sacked. Their chairman himself admitted that he had made a mistake in appointing JH and that the players he was allowed to recruit on expensive short term contracts contributed little to the relegation struggle and that there was dressing room division and unrest. Thankfully for Raith, his tenure was too short to cause long term damage and they are quickly recovering.

In summary, as far as I can see, JH has identified and recruited one decent player in his entire managerial career and that player, decent as he Is, is a violent thug who I personally wouldn't want anywhere near our family club.

I think that I have provided just a little evidence in support of my position.

Perhaps you could now enlighten us on the basis of some facts as to why you think we would now be better off if the then chairman had "given John the money he had asked for'.

 

Very harsh and clear agenda against Yogi. His time at Falkirk? You fail to mention he actually managed them for 6 years winning the first division twice (Brockville not up to SPL standard). You also failed to mention that he established them as a solid SPL team. You seem to also have forgotten in your Hughes summary that he got them into Europe and the Scottish Cup Final. In his one full season at Hibs, they finished 4th. Most Hibs fans would be happy with that kind of finish these days. He was unfairly sacked at the beginning of the next season, after a poor start.  Livingston? Steadied the ship. Hartlepool? Already bottom of league and if you speak to any Hartlepool fan they'd say that they improved under him and nearly pulled off the great escape. Of course, you know about his time at Inverness. But it was Butchers squad so Yogi shouldn't get any credit I suppose eh? Rovers? Already doomed when he took over. Overall, his managerial record is quite impressive but then again, all the people that were against his appointment in the first place need someone to blame now for the state of the club.