DAM

Sorry DAM, but anyone who tries to hang the principles of racism on the back of popular political issues does not have ANY "valid" points to make.

So you don't think his point about illegal immigrants was valid then?

Having just watched Question Time I thought the panel were a bunch of ill-mannered twits - just about every time Nick Griffin tried to have his say he was shouted down. The only panel member who dispayed any decorum was Bonnie Greer. I am not a supporter of the BNP but a number of points forwarded by Griffin were valid.

It also appeared that everyone in the audience were hand picked to disagree with BNP - too much of a coincidence that there appeared to be nobody pro BNP people in the audience...... it looked rigged to me.

Is there not a breakwater that you can walk across up where the river meets the loch? Can you class that as a "bridge".

Brewster is long gone.

Butcher put us down from a safe position.

When butcher took over we were bottom

And we were still bottom at the end of the season!

then how did he manage to put us down from a safe position if we were allready bottom

We were 9th for about a week and then it went down hill from there. Dont think TB had alot of time to change things around. He was thrown into the deep end and work with the players what we had at the club

Looking at it from a slightly different angle - we are 8 points behind the bottom team in the SPL, that's how far we've dropped and that's worrying.

Paterson isn't the answer. If it's true he turned round and said f** off i expect an apology from him ,he should be able to take the critiscm like any other manager. He's not bigger than this club!

He did tell the fans to F**k off. It was not unprovoked though. Would you not tell people the same if they had been shouting abuse at you the whole game. I know I would have.

Im not trying to say that Butcher is doing a good job. He's not but I dont disagree with what he said to the fans

I certainly disagree with him telling the fans to f**K off. Those fans pay his wages apart from anything else and to turn round and shout that to them is inexcusable.

Get ready for Division 2 next year.

Common sense ain't really that common, is it?

Ok so we have a few injuries but come on we must have enough in reserve to avoid been 3-0 down at h/t to Partick if not we can totally forget any illusions we had of bouncing right back up

Perhaps the deluded people who were crowing about going straight back up to the SPL have now been given a reality check. Better sides than ICT have tried and failed. It's going to be a long, long stay in the first division (if not worse). I hope I'm wrong.

Aye Burley has only had 8 games in charge and there is no way a club manager would only be given that amount of time. If we were to get rid of a manager after every failed qualification campaign we would eventually run out of managers. We just have to face it, that we aren't very good!

I also think he should be given a chance - I don't think anyone really thought there would be any other outcome, after all sacking him would be an admission by the SFA that they were wrong to appoint him in the first place and that would never do now would it!

Having the likes of George Peat coming out and saying it's all Iwelumos fault

I don't think he said that at all. He was pointing out the fine line between qualifying and not qualifying and used a missed chance as an example. The Daily Record then applied their spin and made it into a back page story.

But he could have used a little more savvy than single a moment out. David Taylor despite being useless at least was smart with the press. Worked his political socks off and gave little away.

I guess there are many ways you could look at it but one things for sure. We need radical changes in the way youths are brought into the game to have any success in the future and following the Dutch is the way to go.

Agree the Dutch is the way to go. When you hear people on about Scotland being a small country it's true compared with the Netherlands (16 million) but then again when you compare the Netherlands with Germany (82 million) the Dutch are not doing too badly!

"Its not just the media I dont like, its their players, the team, their fans the country, everything! :P F**k them"

Neighbourly rivalry you say? Thank God I don't live near Joe Dimaggio

Well said Oz! What a sad attitude Joe has (if he's serious).

That's better, that's more like the typical anti English drivel that I expect.

Come on now Oz, be fair, there's just as much anti-Scottish drivel coming from the English. I've had my share of it down south.

Are Brentford fans warnings about Butcher coming true???

Stupid yanks

http://www.boycottscotland.com/

I'll give the boycott six months at the most then all will be back to normal. Did you see the stupid yank who was pouring his whisky down the sink in protest. Bet he'll be back to Walmart for more before the week's out.

The celebrations last night were regretable... The Scottish Government had been assured by Libya that this would not happen...

The celebrations last night were entirely predictable, to everyone except our naive Scottish Government it would seem. Out of their depth on matters like this.

Of course it was predictable, that's the way of the excitable Arab world. If the boot was on the other foot do you honestly believe there would be no welcoming party on whoever's arrival in London?

You don't get it Yngwie, do you? Being "compassionate" was just a convenient "get out" clause.

I have never thought for one moment that he was guilty. To think that he planned and executed the whole thing is an utter joke. They had to convict someone and they made him a scapegoat. The American government were desperate for his appeal not to be heard because too many embarrassing truths would have come out. The USA were leaning on the English government as well and I'm proud of the fact that our lot did not give in. Regardless of the huffing and puffing of the USA I am quite sure that secretly their politicians are heaving a sigh of relief at him being freed on compassionate grounds as that will prevent the whole truth coming out.

Sold their souls to the devil?

I give up you win

Ignore him Oz647 he's a bitter bigot - he would sh!t himself if he had to look down the wrong end of a rifle barrel.

At a time when clubs need every penny they can get, it doesn't make financial sense to increase the number of free tickets they hand out. Furthermore, you have clubs which are situated close to large military barracks who may actually rely heavily on the income they get from forces members paying to get through the turnstiles and could be faced with losing a large percentage of their gate receipts.

You also have the potential for a situation where dozens (or more) fancy a day out at the football and turn up at a club en mass. This can throw stewarding/policing into chaos, not to mention other logistical problems like the potential for insufficient turnstiles in operation to see everyone in to a game on time and the knock on impact on catering etc.

Whilst it's something I'm reluctant to mention as I'm sure I'll be shot down for it, there's also the matter of trouble. I'm not going to point the finger of blame, but it is my experience over the years that anywhere that you get a large concentration of forces personnel turning up for an event it is a recipe for disaster and will often lead to some form of clash with the locals.

Personally I'm of the opinion shared by others on here that it is just politicking, and it's ill thought out and potentially troublesome/problematic politicking at that.

Ive taken 4 car loads to games before and I'll bet no1 notice the bunch of squaddys/Airmen at the match, look at this weekends match, they were just a group of fans who had issues with our No2 keeper, and they were paying Civvys... Its abit taring with brushes.

He does not talk about letting all Forces in for free, the system has been tryed in other places where its on ticket allocations, Lossie had it last season when the club offered 5 tickets towards the end of the year.. and I'll bet no one noticed due to our stand being so full.. if they gave 5/10 tickets away then that 5/10 more pies sold..... its easy economics...

Well CD, i don't know where you've experienced that. Forces personnel are not angels but in my experience 99% of the trouble I have witnessed or been involved in were started by civvies who thought they were hardmen, after a few drinks. Needless to say they did not try it on a second time.

Birdog, I have served in the Armed Forces (including Ulster) and also a spell at sea and I find your views interesting. In my book there is no way Servicemen should be given free or concessionary tickets. The days of 30 shillings a week have long gone. Personally I would not even think of accepting this "charity".

I am not sure what you mean by interesting, the way I see it (now) is that I have heard of stories of people returning from Afghanistan and Iraq and the public being less than supportive, a new phenomena for British troops I believe, and I think that news of private companies showing a little appreciation by giving away a few concessions is raising moral a little.

Having spent a little time at sea you will know that seamen suffer from some pretty bad ailments, my knees are fecked with arthritis due to vibration and have been for more than 10 years, I am not as fit as I should be due to the lack of facilities on board for exercise and the poor standard of food, I have sailed with shipmates missing fingers and/or toes, I know lots of people who have had to retire well before their time through ill health brought on by the job and it is well documented that deck and engineroom hands at sea have one of the lowest life expectancies of any profession. I inhale more noxious fumes than a beagle at a smoking laboratory due to exhaust leaks. Nautilus (formerly numast) are carrying out a study at the moment on the effects of prolonged exposure to vibration on the human body. All this is before you take into consideration the effects of 6 hour on 6 hour off watchkeeping. This link here shows how hazardous an environment a ship is to work on. (if anyone is interested)

My point in bringing this all up was that these are the working conditions I am used to and know about and not to belittle the risks which frontline servicemen face but these guys signed up knowing the risks, as I chose my occupation knowing and accepting risks which I later learned about, a lot of occupations face danger in their every day life but people have the choice to take these risks for the rewards on offer and do not expect freebies or recognition. At the end of the day, during peacetime which is more often than not, service personnel have some of the best facilities at their disposal for leading a healthy lifestyle with little or no risk but during times of conflict they are expected to do the job they are paid for and signed up for.

By interesting I should have said that I agree with your views. When you mention noxious fumes I assume you're an engineer? That's what I was and I don't regret leaving that behind, nine month voyages were no joke. At least in the Forces I could walk down the pub for a pint!

georgeious, it's surprising how many people think the Armed Forces don't pay for their food and accommodation or don't pay Income Tax and National Insurance.

Birdog, I have served in the Armed Forces (including Ulster) and also a spell at sea and I find your views interesting. In my book there is no way Servicemen should be given free or concessionary tickets. The days of 30 shillings a week have long gone. Personally I would not even think of accepting this "charity".

Atrocious, reminded me of ICT under Brewster.

What do you make of these two events Scarlet? A number of years ago a good friend of mine was walking back home along a quiet country road one night when he was aware of a small light following him, the light being a metre or so above him. Every time he looked behind the light kept following him. My friend is not easily frightened and eventually he turned and asked "what are you, do you mean to harm me"? The light then disappeared into the distant. My mate never told anyone for fear of being ridiculed but eventually he confided in me. You could never meet a more genuine guy and certainly not one to let his imagination run riot.

Secondly, this happened to my mother: about six o'clock one morning she woke my father saying that there was someone outside their bedroom window saying his name. My mother thought she had been dreaming but when she heard it a second time and then more earnestly a third time she made my father get up and see who was there - there was nobody there and as you can imagine he was none too pleased with her. Two weeks later the exact thing happened again, my father's name called three times at six in the morning, she again made my father get out of bed and when he opened the window our elderly next door neighbour's grandson was standing on the pavement saying his grandfather had just died and my father was needed to help attend to matters. So why did my mother hear the exact same voice two weeks previously? I was a young lad then but I clearly remember the old neighbour dying and his grandson being grateful for my father's help.

I don't believe for one minute that he caused $700.000 worth of damage. The mighty United States of America was left with egg on its face. Does anyone seriously believe that the UK government was going to stand up to the US, after all our puppets dance to the American tune every time.

Surprise surprise. A jury of Liverpudlians found their local hero Gerrard not guilty.

They agreed that he acted in self defence - obviously believers in the footballing philosophy about the best form of defence....

Self defence my @rse. If it had been you or me the verdict would have been completely different - twisted barstewards.