alternative maryhill

Without going over the top, I'm pleased with the appointment and think it was the best possible from the options available. For all its apparent recent failings, the board deserves credit on a couple of counts: it went for experience rather than the "young manager" profile that has served us well in the past but probably wouldn't be appropriate in our current situation; and it offered an 18 month contract which won't be too costly to break on either side should the new team fail.

I appreciate that the Brentford supporters came on here in peace, but we don't really need to pay too much attention to their negativity: as one rightly pointed out, Butcher these days knows Scottish football far more than he knows English football and certainly talks a better game than Craig Brewster did. As for those who criticise Maurice Malpas, his record as an assistant manger is good: it's not fair to condemn him for his record as a manager in his own right.

Terry Butcher was interviewed on Sportsound about 20 minutes ago and it was refreshing to hear his enthusiasm and desire to motivate the players. He praised Saturday's peformance and while he acknowledged that there is money available, he spoke about working with the players we already have. I think he will gain their respect: both he and Malpas achieved far more as players than Craig Brewster did, without denigrating Brewster's talent. Hopefully the likes of Cowie, Black and Imrie will want to impress someone who has played with the best.

You've lost me guys , what text message ?

The flatmate of someone Caley Stan and I were at the game with apparently went to school with Butcher's son. The guy came out for a pint with us later and texted someone he said was Butcher jnr to ask what his dad's attitude to the ICT job was. He got a reply saying something along the lines of Tel not wanting the job because the club was too much of a mess at the moment. I didn't mention in it my earlier posts because I couldn't be 100% sure it was a true source, but I don't think the guy we were with had any reason to be talking bullsh!t. Assuming the text was genuinely from a Butcher, we still don't know whether Butcher jnr really knows what his dad is thinking, or whather El Tel could be persuaded to change his mind. I'd still be quite keen on him.

Maryhill - can you remember the content of that text message from Butcher's son?

I think it was something along the lines of El Tel not wanting to take over because Brewster had left us in such a mess.

Not really - I think you're along the right lines. Didn't bother mentioning that message earlier in the thread, but I guess his son is quote a good source - assuming the boy that sent the original message wasn't taking the p!ss.

I am sure I've seen Hissy do it.

Hissy was more famous for his vest-based celebrations...

Sunday Herald, still has Robbo as the front runner, so it 's still clear as mud

Just read that. Don't know what we're supposed to believe. Blackieforce mentions earier in this thread that Robbo claimed in commentary that he hadn't been asked for an interview. And yet:

"Robertson was interviewed by his friend, club chief executive Graeme Bennett, and chairman George Fraser at an Inverness hotel on Friday. Terms were discussed which would see Robertson take over until the end of the season, with the option of a longer contract depending on whether Caley Thistle were still in the SPL or relegated to the First Division."

So is Robbo just being coy? Or is the Sunday Herald writing p!sh?

Back to basics for this one.

Esson

Tokely Magic Munro Hastings

Cowie Morais Duncan Imrie

Wood Rooney

Magic.!

No Vigurs? :thumb04: He was outstanding yesterday! We need that sort of quality on the ball against Celtic - they'll allow our midfielders to play a bit. I would go with:

I've been saying for the past couple of weeks that if we're keeping Black we should play him, but none of yesterday's midfielders deserve to be dropped after their performances against Hearts. Having said that, I'd put Black on early if the game is not going our way.

Archie Knox has worked with some of the best players and managers in the game, but I don't think he's what we need at the moment at all. By all accounts he's the guy that puts the boot in when Ferguson, Smith etc have forgotten to give someone the hairdryer. Our players look fragile and lacking in any self belief at the moment - do we really need some boot-camp-type individual, who doesn't know much about them and whose recent experience has been at a higher level, coming in and making them feel even worse about themselves? I'd rather Robbo coming in with the arm-around-the-shoulder approach, even though he wouldn't be my first choice either.

Did we look fragile and lacking in self belief today?

IMO we just need a manager who knows how to pick the team, bring it together and play them in the right places.

Archie Knox is that man.

You know my feelings on this...

As I've said in my post on the matchday thread, the team's resilience and self-belief were fantastic today. However, it would just take one wrong appointment to crush that again - look at what Brewster's "disciplinarian" approach cost the team in terms of spirit (and, possibly, losing players). Archie Knox is famous for two things - for being a great assistant manager, and for being a hard b******. He'll have my absolute support if he does get the job, but I would just feel more optimistic with someone else. Remember my sage words about a certain Andy Barrowman at the first Tynecastle game this season?

btw - 3.38 AM? I assume you carried on for a while after I staggered off for the train?

Cant speak with authority as I obviously wasn't at the game and didn't have the benefit of seeing BBC Alba but from my normal vantage point of listening to the game via Internet Radio Scotland whilst trying to get the updates ready, I have to say it was thoroughly entertaining - especially the second half. Pavels sounded a decent goal and the commentator might have needed a wee tissue to mop things up after describing how good he thought Dougie's goal was. Its a shame they went straight back up the park and got a winner, but such is life ..... and football.

To all those who think the ICT fanbase - especially the naughty 20 - are nothing more than whingers, I would say to you to read this thread ...... we are disappointed at getting nothing from the game that's for sure, but virtually everyone is making positive comments that despite this defeat, the players are to be applauded for the effort they put into it and the fight they showed (a little too much from you though Roy !) ...... Well done lads, more of the same please. With that effort and a few breaks we WILL climb the table.

Well said. No-one's written much about the support yesterday, but it was excellent - maybe 300 strong and giving loads of encouragement throughout, especially when we went behind. There was a really upbeat feel throughout as well, whereas last week there was a real mood of desperation, even though the backing was great. I was hoarse at the end of the game, and I'm not normally very vocal - it was impossible not to get caught up in it because both fans and players gave so much.

As for the game itself, I'd echo Caley Stan's comments - the most exciting game since the previous 3-2 at Tynecastle. It had everything except the right scoreline. Was slightly surprised to see the stats - would have thought there were more shots - but there was real quality from both sides in midfield in the second half. Vigurs' back heel was a great moment, and Duncan tried something similar later on, unbelievably. No-one could believe it when Tokely lined up in the centre of midfield, but he did a pretty good job: it was glorious when Aguiar went off half way through the second half, having been utterly dominated by Rosscoe, to sarcastic applause from the ICT support. Although they were both a little quiet in the first, Imrie and Cowie came on to their best games for us for ages. There was still fragility at the back, obviously, but we were also unlucky: I felt the first goal was a foul on Esson, and the third came from the left back area, where Munro had been forced to deputise for Roy (although the whole side was probably culpable for losing concentration after Imrie's goal). Esson had a tremendous game, and Pav is already a god.

The unity and adventurousness the team showed yesterday just brought home the damage Brewster has done to the club in the past few months - the players performed like a weight had been lifted and really seemed to be enjoying just playing proper football. At the end, although they looked gutted, they also looked like they still had some pride and self-belief; a week ago, they went off looking like a team that has acepted relegation. The team still has spirit and still has skill - whoever takes over has a responsibility to bring these qualities out of the players.

Archie Knox has worked with some of the best players and managers in the game, but I don't think he's what we need at the moment at all. By all accounts he's the guy that puts the boot in when Ferguson, Smith etc have forgotten to give someone the hairdryer. Our players look fragile and lacking in any self belief at the moment - do we really need some boot-camp-type individual, who doesn't know much about them and whose recent experience has been at a higher level, coming in and making them feel even worse about themselves? I'd rather Robbo coming in with the arm-around-the-shoulder approach, even though he wouldn't be my first choice either.

That's a shame. We could have signed him in 18 months or so after he'd banged in a few in the SFL...

Think he might be a good manager for someone one day - despite the on-field attitude he's a very intelligent and articulate bloke - but certainly not for us. Not experienced enough and possibly too abrasive for a squad already at a low ebb confidence-wise.

FFS. I hope this gets sorted out in time. I was planning on getting mine from the Tynecastle ticket office on the day - don't want to risk trying to buy from TCS at this late stage. Better try phoning Tynie tomorrow, I suppose.

I'm just not sure about Robbo. I don't like the idea of going back to a previous manager again and his record with us in the SPL first time around wasn't great - although it was only over a short period. Ironically, though, if we went down, I think he'd be the right choice to manage us in the SFL - he has the motivational ability and the knowledge of Scottish football from top to bottom to make a real go of getting us back up. If he was to be appointed, I hope the board and the fans would stick by him if we didn't survive.

Don't know if that makes sense the way I've tried to explain it but it makes sense in my head.

Sitting in my classroom marking essays when the cleaner came in and told me. An ICT supporter is considered such a outlandish specimen in a Glasgow Catholic school that even the cleaners know who I support.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/chickyoung/2009...ball_was_a.html

I can't really work out what his point is. The man's just rambling.

Completely. It's ill-informed reactionary bullsh*t that doesn't examine any of the real reasons behind Brewster's dismissal. The forum posts that follow it are quite good, though - Rangers fans outraged that Chick isn't writing about them for once. It makes you think that they really don't think any other club should exist - they'd rather play with themselves...

Traynor made a few cracks about Inverness being the back of beyond

I only heard part of the issue...but in the part i heard, Traynor was saying the opposite of the above.....saying it was a myth that we are in the middle of nowhere.

To be fair, you're right - when he was treating the discussion seriously, he did say that people's perceptions of Inveness as inaccessible and remote was wrong - it was only a little later he started joking about three day journeys and so on.

Nothing much that hasn't been covered on here already. Probably the most entertaining aspect was Charles B twisting and turning like a live man being spit-roasted while Jim Traynor tried to pin him down on the boardroom politics that might prevent Robbo returning. CB also mentioned Butcher as a possibility but was eventually persuaded to admit that Robbo would be the frontrunner IF the internal politics could be sorted out. Traynor made a few cracks about Inverness being the back of beyond and also tried to get Billy Dodds to admit an interest in the job (would be the most unpopular appointment in history if it happened). Luckily Dodds wasn't biting. Lastly, there were a few entertaining vox pops from the streets of Inverness. Anyone on here going to admit to being interviewed?

Oh, and Traynor made an utterly inappropriate parting shot about Charles staying "on the job" tonight. Lowland vulgarity...

...currently discussing the Brewster sacking.

Why would he want to, though? He's going to the club he supported as a boy, on higher wages and with more likelihood of both European football and a Scotland call up. Obviously there are risks attached - he may not hold down a first team place and Hearts' financial position is apparently still very precarious - but to be honest, I think he would have taken this offer once he heard of Hearts' interest regardless of who our manager was.

What's more important is, can we hold on to him for the rest of the season and will the new manager put him back into the team? We missed his composure on the ball in midfield badly on Saturday, and I have no doubt that he would give heart and soul for us between now and the end of the season, as he has for the past four and a half seasons.

I think Butcher might be a decent shout. Has experience up here, did OK with Motherwell, knows the scene in in the SPL and I reckon he would be a good motivator and a better communicator than Brewster. I suspect he'd command the players' respect more too.

I'd also be happy enough with Craig Brown - seems to be a bit of an arm-around-the-shoulder type, which the squad probably needs at the moment, and again he has a lot of experience, although he's not managed in the Scottish leagues for a long time.

Like a lot of people, I have reservations about Robbo. He did a good job here in the first division, but reappointing managers almost never works and his SPL experience is more limited than, for example, Butcher's. If he were to be appointed, however, and we did go down, I think he might do a decent job for us in the SFL. Certainly if he is appointed, I'll back him all the way.

I don't think it's the time to appoint an outsider from, say, the lower leagues in England. Whoever the new manager is going to have to work with the squad he has and try to motivate them against the rest of the SPL. I think a manager with limited knowledge of the SPL is more likely to want to bring his own players in and will also be at a disadvantage when it comes to planning tactics against the other SPL clubs that he's never managed against before.

I'll be there. What about another shoe protest and make sure the media pick it up this time.

I'll make sure I'm wearing trainers then. Was wearing docs yesterday - it would have taken me until full time to get the feckin things off and I'd probably have fallen over the rows in front in the process...

I'm not sure any captain could make much difference to the morale and organisation on the pitch at the moment. However, Munro has had his poorest season for us so far, IMO. Maybe playing alongside a more commanding centre back in Mihadjuks will help his form to improve. Of all the potential rivals for the job, however - Munro, Tokely, Duncan - I think Munro is (marginally) the most likely to keep his place in the team. Also, changing captain just now would probably have an even more negative effect on team morale. Probably the most painless way of changing captains would be if a new experienced signing was brought in by a new manager and given the role.

I'll be there because I've got myself into the mindset that I have to attend every away game I can make this season, but I'm going into this game with less hope and expectation than I've ever had before a game. Frankly, I don't think we've a cat in hell's chance of avoiding a defeat. By about quarter past four I expect us to be two or three down and for me to be looking at my watch willing the hands to move faster so I can get back to the pub.

I'm also pretty sure we're going down. Glen Mhor mentioned the fighters in the team, but the last few league games have suggested that morale under Brewster is so bad that most of the fight has gone out of the team. I'm not sure a new manager would keep us up, but Gordy makes a point that illustrates exactly why we can't keep faith with Brewster: if he is still in charge when we are in the first division, then the effect on home crowds will be catastrophic - probably below the numbers we were getting in the third division.

As someone who goes to away games rather than home games, I will quite enjoy the change of scene and going to grounds I haven't visited for a few years, but it's also sad accepting that the momentum and growth that we enjoyed during the club's first 12-13 years is finally over.

That was the most depressing defeat yet. I barely recall any shots on goal except for Tokely's outrageous 35-yarder in the first half, and a header coming off the bar in the second. To be fair, the weather probably did make it difficult for the players, but knowing what it was like, WHY did they return to the long-ball p!sh that seems to be Brewster's default tactical setting? As people have pointed out already on this thread, the line-up was also wrong again. Barrowman trotted around 20 yards from goal and didn't seem to have either the strength or the guile to make any impact on Hamilton's central defenders; Vigurs was played wide left, which limited his greatest strength, his passing; Cowie was playing in the middle (I think) but as so often this season, just didn't look up for it. What was most frustrating was that Black was left out of the team but named as a sub, when it was obvious Brewster had no intention of using him. The game was crying out for someone who could put their foot on the ball in midfield, make space and make a pass, and Black should have been on after about half an hour.

Any positives? Morais looked quite skilful, had some nice touches and made a few ambitious flicks and passes that nearly came off - also, he worked very hard throughout. Mihadjuks looked solid, but Hamilton didn't really threaten apart from the penalty incident, so it was difficult to judge him.

The support was brilliant yesterday - fantastic atmosphere in the pub beforehand and really vocal inside the ground. I felt proud being part of it. Unfortunately it was far harder to feel any pride in the team - by 20 minutes into the game, it was all too clear what was going to happen. I can't see any possibility of us taking any points from the next three games under the current circumstances - the team has less ability than any of its opponents and judging by the last few games, it also has far less fight and self-belief. Although my feeling is that it is already too late to save us, Craig Brewster has to go now - the supporters and players deserve better.