davie

On 5/18/2018 at 5:04 PM, CaleyD said:

I wanted nothing but the best for ICTFC

loved that vanilla 

12 hours ago, Hearach said:

Could you please clarify Izzys full name to avoid any confusion 

sorry hearach. too many shortened isobels out there! it's actually issy fairclough, an appointee of the board. 

2 hours ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

How many turned up and who were they ?  Or does this lie in the realms of the Secrets / Confiedntiality Acts ?

don, Johnny horne, me, kath Fraser, izzy and Laura grant with two boys from supporters direct on video conference. 

2 hours ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Who is our present Supporters Liaison Officer ? It also appears to me that confidentiality is demanded by the Supporters Direct organisation. I am reliably informed that the present CJT echelon are basically debarred from making comments on this forum which is evidently being preyed on by the predators. I would be very interested to hear the views on this debate from the Supporters Direct organisation. I am saddened that individuals on both sides of the divide, except Bannerman of course, who have given large amounts of their time to this organisation are squabbling and practically at war with each other's. I sense that the motivation to challenge and change is as much about internalised anger and resentment, actually understandable in some instances, towards people at the club who are attempting to change the face of ICTFC. Unfortunately I sense a fight to the death, dog with a bone feeling and unfortunately this argument will probably fester for some time. Instead of a best of three scoring system this is akin to a three set badminton match and we are still in the early throes of the first set. It is clear to see who is standing on one side of the court but posters probably have no idea who the opposition are ? 

Johndo, as far as I am aware, the present SLO at the club is Kristine Fraser. It’s difficult to see what role she would have until the internal business is sorted out and CJT then have a legitimate basis with which to communicate with the club through the SLO. I know that Scotty has offered an equal platform to all to comment on this matter and it has been used by CJT and those wishing to affect change. It’s an open argument – there is no internalisation on my part – and it has nothing to do with people who are “trying to change the face of ICTFC” The signatories to the original requisition for a special general meeting are the ones using a public forum, CJT are choosing not to. I for one am happy to answer any questions that posters on here might have and I’m sure that Don would echo that – in fact we are the only ones who have explained matters.  As for demanded confidentiality from Supporters Direct, if you look back at my posts I have quoted them as regards advice and comment supplied. Asked, they were happy to be quoted. If there is a continued silence from the present Board of Directors it is  self-imposed. To end it, all they have to do is comply with a legitimate request from the membership, present their arguments in a special general meeting and either stand or fall by them.

Davie – my views only

16 minutes ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

There is a registered - and very inactive - company called "Inverness Caledonian Thistle Supporters Society Limited".  Company number SP2665RS.

Just to confuse things, it is described as an "Industrial and provident society".

So I'm not even going to guess which rules apply.

I seem to renember someone saying that "Caley Jags Together" is an informal operating name or brand name for this Society.

Caley Jags Together is the adopted name of the "Inverness Caledonian Thistle Supporters Society Limited" and it is a limited Company governed by the rules and regulations set out in The Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2014. You can find the Legislation here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/14/contents 

The rules that CJT operates under are those described as Model Rules and issued by Supporters Direct. They are the umbrella organisation for Supporters Trusts. Don previously attached those rules in a post on the CJT update thread where they are available to download.

14 minutes ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

God ?

nah, I gave him a shout but he's busy. 

I recieved an e-mail yesterday at 6:27pm from Caley Jags together which says "Hi Davie, following a Caley Jags Together Board meeting we would like to acknowledge reciept of your request for a meeting. We are working to make the necessary arrangements to deal with the business raised in your letter.

We have set a provisional date of Wednesday 18th April at 7pm, we hope to be able to confirm this date along with the location in the very near future" It's signed by Hamish Wood Company Secretary.

Notwithstanding that CJT are required by their rules to give 14 days clear (not provisional) notice of the meeting - and it's not appeared to anyone else, never mind the membership I'm of a mind to ask CJT here and now to make notice of this meeting on CTO. It's as close to a public forum that we have that reaches the membership. It wasn't my request, it was that of the thirty odd others willing to question the Board with me, Don Johnstone and John Horne. Find the venue, finalise your communication and date the meeting 14 days from that time so that all members have an equal opportunity to prepare and be there. After all, some people seemingly needed to firm up travel arrangements before the e-mail above was sent and we can't have that, can we.

6 hours ago, Caman said:

On second thoughts I'll go to the St Midden game instead.

Can I sit on your lap davie and run my fingers through your sideburns? X

why isn't there an emoji for frankly terrified? :) 

2 hours ago, Polo Chick said:

Well that's 92 minutes of my life i don't get back what a dreadful game but a cup win is a cup win Pass marks only to Donaldson, Tremarco , Ridgers and young Daniel who i hope the club have the brains to get tied up and eventually make some money out of .....but then perhaps not P.S please do not let Vigurs take any more penalty's 

thanks for the support and celebration of a trophy win against a really stuffy side. Glad you appreciated it.

7 hours ago, Caman said:

Think I'll go to the shinty next Saturday.  Having to watch three ICT games in 7 days would be bad for my blood pressure and make me a gurnier b####ard!!!!

please do. I'm sure we would'nt want you to bother yourself. Enjoy the shinty.

actually DD, the rule change ditching the ability of the membership to demand a performance audit of the business conducted on their behalf is a fundamental and major change. it needs challenging. 

Liz,

I have thought long and hard about replying to your post in open forum and exacerbating the feelings that you express. I’ve balanced that against the absolute requirement to make points public and open to comment from any quarter. I have to take your post to task on several points.

“The current board is only in place at present to protect the 10% shareholding.  In my view if the people who are currently listed as board members had not stepped up to resolve all the issues there was a real possibility CJT would fold and the shareholding lost”. 

This is the first time that this point has been made, despite all of the prior posts on the matter and is not the case. The Board is in place to ensure the proper running of The Society for the benefit of the members.  Don Johnstone can make his own points regarding legitimacy (see prior posts) but if the Board of Directors is not properly constituted it is protecting nothing and is in fact endangering the continued existence of CJT if any of the governance bodies decide to investigate and/ or take action.

“There has been many appeals for people to step forward to take key roles.  There has been letters issued, e-mails sent and also posts on here to try and get people to come forward”

Please review all of the posts about this but I recognise it is difficult to recruit to unpaid posts. There has been no widespread appeal. Those who could help you have been actively excluded. Members have been effectively dumped. What you have done is attempted to recruit from a friendly part of the membership, which is understandable but look at the other posts. You have only succeeded in alienating people.

“We have been accused of impropritories however, have been working hand in hand with supporters direct who have confirmed that the board is legitimate”.

No one has accused you of any impropriety. What they have accused you of (and I continue that) is being wrong. The second part of what you have said here is a case in point. I have spoken to and communicated with Andrew Jenkin of Supporters Direct and his reply was “Yes, we have offered support to CJT by giving them the latest model rules and outlining the process to them (as we do for all members) - but the Trust ought to have gone through the correct procedure to get these approved by the members and voted through at an AGM before submitting these to the FCA. I'm not sure what has been done in respect of this.”  I need not point out it’s directly contradicting your points above. You know that you have submitted these rule changes to the FCA without consulting the membership and you have been warned against that on several occasions and refused to respond. You don’t appear to realise the implications of this. They are: section 398 of the Financial Services & Markets Act 2000 (Misleading the FCA or PRA: residual cases) makes it an offence for a firm knowingly or recklessly to provide the FCA with information which is false or misleading in a material particular in purported compliance with the FCA's rules or any other requirement imposed by or under the Act. An offence by a body corporate, partnership or unincorporated association may be attributed to an officer or certain other persons (section 400 of the Act (Offences by bodies corporate etc.)) I don’t know who you are getting guidance from but I would ask you to recheck it for your own sake.

“An EGM can easily be called and the current board totally replaced if thats what is required, however, im not wasting my time organising that if only 20 people turn up and nobody is prepared to take on the roles that are required”.

Liz, this shouldn’t have been said. You are Chair of a Society registered under the Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2014 and as such you and your Board of Directors exist to represent your membership. If they require you to organise an AGM or special general meeting you must do it, no matter how irritating you find that. Just don’t express it in an open forum, again for your own sake.

“The roles that are currently needed to be filled with people who have the time on their hands to deal with everything are:

Chairperson, Vice Chairperson, Treasurer, Secretary, Membership secretary. On top of these roles, general board members are also required. Ahead of the last AGM which unfortunately I could not attend, there were requests for new board members to stand, we got nobody.

So all those people who are quick to shoot me and the other office bearers, please feel free to step, e-mail you intention to stand for board membership and we can put the wheels in motion to get CJT back on track”

I’ll deal with this in its entirety. I know the workload required Liz, it’s not easy. I’m sure that your current Board are behind you but I don’t know if I would want to be described as someone “with time on their hands” There are reasons for there being no answers to requests for new board members prior to the AGM because that call was limited to the process I refer to in paragraph 3. Your Board has engaged in a process of refusal to engage with “certain people” (myself included) or give them information that they are entitled to (not granted by favour) as members on the grounds that you believe them to be simply “causing trouble”. It was Kath Fraser who expressed this and it is directly in opposition to the objects of The Society. With the greatest of respect, none of my posts contain any personalised invective and that’s why I have consistently called for the demission of the entire Board, not any one individual.

Neither me, nor anyone that I have spoken to on this matter has been quick to shoot you or anyone else. We have put up with months of silence, indecision, backbiting and wrong headedness. Your board has consistently aligned to a position that appears muddled or wrong. Anything that I have said here is backed up by fact and is attributable and that’s the sole reason that I decided to post this publically.  Please organise a Special General Meeting at your convenience. We now have sufficient support to mandate this but it would be better for everyone if you instigated it as Chairperson.

My apologies for the length of this post.

I’m swithering between being really hacked off or delighted at the OP from CJT. The statement is disingenuous, shows an utter disregard for the membership and displays an arrogance that people who are members of CJT really need to challenge. It’s dreadful but judging by the replies thus far the challenge is exactly what is happening.

This Board (whoever it might be) cannot be constituted properly and cannot be valid. The last meeting (the AGM) broke up after being mismanaged (as was the case with the previous AGM) and the Board at that time was left without sufficient members to continue (2 or 3 depending on your viewpoint about electing a treasurer). The Board was not in any way endorsed from the floor. The only thing that was agreed was that Laura should redouble efforts to establish an accurate membership figure and then come back to that membership with a properly constructed AGM/EGM under the rules. No information was given (despite repeated requests) about the rules being submitted for approval or any other business. No minutes have been published.  The Board were not “given time” to do anything in regard to appointing casual or co-opted directors and its rules don’t allow for it in the numbers stated. I am told that the input from SDS has been limited to giving CJT the model rules and advising on completing them. Nothing more.

It’s important to state that people on this forum and elsewhere have not “borne with” CJT on this. They have become increasingly concerned and exasperated to the point of moving to demit this Board and that is presumably what has prompted this fairly disgraceful statement. DD has asked all of the questions that I would have, I’m not holding my breath on answers. Let’s just get to an EGM and elect a Board who can actually do the job. We still need people to commit to putting their names to the call for a special meeting, can I respectfully ask you to give me a direct message with your membership number and I’ll add you to the list and I will respond to each and every message. We need as many as possible.

folks, I'm grateful for the support. I'll make it clear now that I want neither office nor a long term role in this. the most important thing therefore is to get people on board who are willing and able to form a new board that will operate in the interests of the fans. People have already expressed an interest. a modernised and streamlined cjt has a crucial role to play this season and beyond. 

2 hours ago, Renegade said:

This is increasingly my viewpoint.  Seems to me, that some people joined the board, simply to say they were on the board and yet do none of the work.  Also, I thought I was a life member (like everyone else).  Now it turns it that I'm not a life member at all and in fact my membership has been taken off me along with everyone else.  Sorry folks, but that doesn't really make me want to re-join.

bear with us rene, it will get sorted. wr need people like you 

1 minute ago, Scotty said:

Davie - or whoever - let us know what if anything CTO can do to help in terms of info, distributing forms for download, or as mentioned before about having the "club" section within the site. I would probably get more involved if I lived closer, and I was hoping there might have been a meeting while I was back in December but sadly not .... but happy to do what I can from afar ......

I believe the new version of the forum software (currently in beta stage) may even allow membership fees to be paid online and sent onwards to a third party (ie. not through us) but I do have to get more info on that as if thats possible we could extend that service to any (legitimate) groups who may need to have a membership page and an easy way to collect membership dues, send renewals etc.  

Thanks Scotty. appreciated. 

Glover and others.  I think we can now safely say that the current Board of CJT seem either unable or unwilling to represent or inform the membership effectively or at all. There have been seven separate attempts to gain a response from them about what they have been doing on this forum alone in the last couple of months without success. Facebook and website queries are unanswered. It’s nearly dead but we can’t let CJT die and then start a rival supporters group because the voting right within ICTFC that is held by CJT would die with it. As Charles Bannerman says that’s the 3^rd or 4^th biggest bloc within the club and represents the people who make the club what it is. That can’t be allowed to disappear.

I’ve been in touch with SDS and asked advice on how to demit this Board in order that we can get CJT on an even keel and operating properly according to its objectives. The model rules (insofar as we know because CJT cannot or will not confirm what rules they are operating under)  state that the Board should be informed of the intention of the membership to call a meeting of the society and that the intention must be supported by 20 members or 5% of the membership (rule 32). The Board at present appears to dispute who are or are not members in their view but anyone with a fob, a £1 share certificate or membership number who paid a one off £1 would be regarded as members for this purpose. We therefore need 20 people to take this forward. If you can DM me on this forum, I can add your name to the list. As soon as we have the minimum number, we call the meeting which has the sole agenda of requiring the immediate resignation of the current Board (Liz MacRae, Cliff Sim, Laura Grant and any others) From the date of that meeting being called, the Board may not do anything – other than preparing for that meeting. It’s questionable if, after the way the AGM finished, they are allowed to do any business now that isn’t direct preparation for a Special General Meeting under rule 36.4 and rule 65.

  It’s a damn shame it’s come to this but it’s not too late to do something about it. We will need people to serve on a new Board.  At present I’m talking to various people about how to move things on and there are ideas. We’ll put them out there after we have got the support to call an EGM and certainly before it happens so that the members can make an informed choice about what happens next.

11 hours ago, caleyboy said:

have you an official position within cjt Davie?

No. I'm a (very) ex-chairperson

1 hour ago, Charles Bannerman said:

One thing the club board could perhaps do is to establish exactly what the situation is with regard to CJT and make a public statement of the outcome principally, as Glover says, for the benefit of the fans whose body this is meant to be.

If whoever were previously involved in CJT are unable to respond to the likes of queries by posters on this forum, then I would suggest that it falls to the club board to achieve clarity - better still, progress - in respect of 10% of the Company's voting rights.

Charles, I've been in touch with supporters direct today to see if we can move this forward. hope to post something as soon as possible. this is a situation that now needs to be sorted. 

Is there any update on the position here? The timeframe that CJT committed to for proposing a way forward following the AGM has long come and gone, so even an interim statement would be appreciated. Thanks.

1 hour ago, Glover said:

Yes,  there is a serious lack of transparency here - regardless of the buts, ifs, and howevers.  No info on CJT website about AGM or anything (defunct)  no info on Facebook and no info here.  Supporters of Caley Thistle know more about the ICTFC board than CJTs.  How has this been allowed to happen?  

Can someone from CJT comment? 

 

3 hours ago, Buster said:

For the sake of balance it would be good if we could hear from one of the committee.  Who is on there now?

I fear you might wait some time. As far as I know, the only remaining Board Members are Liz MacRae (Chairperson) and Laura Grant (who chaired the last two AGM's) Cliff Sim was elected on the night. Laura intimated her intention to resign at the AGM and must now go, so there is effectively no Board. The AGM was a farce, I'm not going to dwell on it as Caley D has covered it adequately. What has happened here is that the were members of that Board who are wholly responsible through their actions and inactions for the situation that has transpired. Liz must be wondering what she got herself into. 65 members? I know of at least that number who they couldn't be bothered to contact.

We need to build bridges with the club, right now. We need to build bridges with the social club, right now. We need to adequately deal with the issues within the support (young team etc.) and communicate to the outside world. We need to sort CJT administratively and make it accountable to the membership. The situation whereby a membership can be reduced from 700 to 65 without telling them simply as a means of forcing an agenda can't be allowed to recur. As with all orgnisations of it's size, there's a small body of activists that serve a larger membership but more need to help out. I'm up for it.It's an important time for CJT and I hope that others can join us to take it forward.

14 hours ago, L_G said:

I don't want to detract from this important thread but I collected mail today and there was no membership applications for collection, indeed only the letter referred to above

Hi LG, I have checked, the form is where it was put on Saturday - in the dookit. If it could be collected prior to the agm, I'd be grateful. 

DD, forgive me but is the Brechin game not tomorrow night and the CJT AGM the next week - 5th December? There's not much that would make me miss a game but I share your concerns and might add a couple more so this would. I had to re-submit my membership on Saturday after being approached by a Board Member on the grounds that there was no basis in CJT's rules for continuing membership and that's why I hadn't heard anything. Ifound that curious but if it is the case, the terms of membership as understood by most members would seem to have been changed without recourse to the membership or without publicising the fact. I'm aware of CJT's struggle with its constitution over the past  while. If any member of CJT has not recieved notice of the AGM (and I still haven't) my best advice would be to download a membership form (Scotty has a link on this site) and get them in ASAP. You can then turn up at the AGM and question the Board as to why you have apparently been excluded.

1 hour ago, DoofersDad said:

19.00 on Tuesday 5th Dec at the Social Club, Greig St.

Thanks, appreciated.

As an ex chairman of cjt, I would have expected notification of the agm but I have not heard anything. However I know how difficult it is to keep track of a membership database, so OK. Where and when?