reefinweedallday

Elgin dont play in red/blue stripes ......

hmmm have a look at their away kit

These buses were all running before the merger took place....!!!

Woosh!! My point being that people followed Caley or Thistle,yes they still supported other SPL teams because Inverness wasn't in the league.

Once they merger happened these people started following their SPL team and got on these buses or got on trains to follow "other" teams when they would have been happy to follow Inverness if it had been done in a proper fashion and not the underhand way it was.

I don't expect you to understand the feelings D you didn't follow football then so i understand you don't have a full grasp on things.

Whatever way you want to cut it, ICT have more fans...and did so immediately following the merger...than the previous combined total for Caledonian and Thistle.

 

The fanbase has grown due to the success of ICT who were allowed to follow a path which was not, at the time, open to either team individually.  Had we still two Highland League teams then I very much doubt the combined total attendance for both would match current levels for ICT....that's if both clubs were even still in business.

Not disputing that fact in the slightest D.I am trying to offer a debate from the "other" side and i will always stand by the 100s figure as i personally know so many that follow other SPL teams all because of the merger.We can only make presumptions but i believe we would have had similair crowds had the club been called Caley oR Thistle most in Inverness were desperate for a club to get in to the Scottish leagues,it's more the underhand way things were rushed through that sticks in a lot of peoples throats.

 

 

 

i personally know hundreds of people who would have stopped following football in Inverness due to the merger,most follow other SPL teams now or just dont go to a game rather than follow ICT.

Name them.

Would you know them all? you must be the Electoral roll?

I dont believe there are still 100s (if there were ever quite that many) ......

There may have been a fair sized group in 93/94 and beyond, but some have decided to follow ICT, for some life changes happened and football would no longer be in their weekly plans anyway, some are no longer with us on this planet, and still others have moved to the other side of various oceans ......

There may be 'dozens' around in total, but once you consider only those in Inverness or still attending football (at other grounds) then I would suggest the number is in single figures !

So you dont believe that there are supporters buses leaving for Celtic Park,Ibrox,Pittodrie? on a weekly basis as well as the people travelling on trains and buses to the likes of Hibs,Dundee United and Hearts? How many does a bus full of supporters hold? the vast majority who travel on these buses were at one time Thistle or Caley fans.

I would agree that sadly some have passed on their way and others have moved to eh..the central belt(could never follow ICT from there)

reef, if these hundreds of die hard caley/thistle fans really exist, why didn't they vote to save their clubs from death?

 

Clacher if you can find anything about the merger you should read up on it.....or ask Charles to tell you the full ins and outs.

Mr Dougie Macgillvary and some of his fellow board members i believe paid money to people to go along to vote.banned certain "members" from being allowed to vote,told the players exactly which way they should all vote...or face the consequences.

You were also only allowed to vote if you were a season ticket holder,in those days i dont remember the vast majority having season tickets the grounds could hold 3000+ it was never going to be a sell out and for us young lads on a couple of quid pocket money a week a season ticket was a lot of paper rounds!!

I don't understand this "can you afford to lose 100 fans" argument....even if I was to accept that the number might be anywhere near that level.

 

Given the choice between having 100 merger stay aways or the couple of thousand additional fans picked up since the merger then, financially, it's a no-brainer.

I'm not so sure about the couple of thousand picked up? Inverness has grown in size quite dramatically from 1994 to the present day and has a lot of incomers who had no affiliation to either club.

ICT do have a lot of fans outwith inverness and who have moved here for work etc,that much you can not debate surely? add that to the fact that Inverness had a club in the Scottish league and a combination of both Caley and Thistle fans who didn't stay away i dont think the figure is anywhere near the couple of thousand you believe.

I stand by the statement that ICT can not afford to have any stayaway fans,nor any club in the present climate for that matter.It's neither here nor there if you believe this number to be correct,i actually believe it is a few hundred higher but for debate's sake i am calculating it at a nice round hundred just to point out the club can not afford to lose money in any way.I do believe that this season ICT could do with those few hundred more than ever looking at the attendance figures.

 

i personally know hundreds of people who would have stopped following football in Inverness due to the merger,most follow other SPL teams now or just dont go to a game rather than follow ICT.

 

Name them.

Would you know them all? you must be the Electoral roll?

 

I'd like us just to play in solid red and blue vertically striped strips, Barcelona style.

Absolutely, it's unique within the Scottish game, displays an intertwining of Inverness Thistle and Caledonian and would end the calls of the club showing a bias towards the latter.

I also believe that a Caledonian style home shirt and Thistle away is a ridiculous idea that would do nothing more than open up old wounds.

Bring back the stripes!

      unique to Elgin City??

 

I personally know dozens of ex Caley and Thistle fans that have never set foot inside the new stadium and who rejoice when ICT get beat .

I know a few who claim they don't attend ICT "because of the merger"....but when pushed on the subject it transpires that they rarely ever went to the football pre-merger anyway, so would hardly count as a lost fan.  It's almost as if it's just a convenient get out clause for many local OF supporters when challenged on why they don't support their local team as well.

The truth is, as I pointed out, the real "stay aways" are few and far between and are certainly have no significant impact on current crowds.

 

 

As one of the younger members of the ICT fan base I don't know a lot about the merger but ive been surprised to hear that it has kept many fans from both teams away from supporting ICT? Find it quite silly TBH

The reason you are surprised to hear this is that the merger has NOT actually kept very many fans away from supporting ICT at all.

This is and always has been a complete myth which a tiny rump of Cyber Rebels attempt to perpetuate through various social media, including on here, and when they occasionally meet face to face in plenary session in a phone box on Telford Street. It's a wee bit like the myth about Celtic supporters in Seville, except about 20,000 times smaller.

If you are one of the younger members of the ICT fan base, let me summarise what happened from the autumn of 1993 in a very few sentences. (A more detailed account can be found in "Against All Odds" online on this site.)

Some Caley and an even smaller number of Thistle fans objected to the merger and the manner in which it was achieved. It is important to understand that attendances at games in these Highland League days was tiny (a few hundred) compared with nowadays since in between a large number of new fans with no interest in the merger in the first place have come on board. In the case of Caley, it is also very important to understand that in any case, no more than 226 people ever voted against the merger, even though recruitment by the anti merger faction was exhaustive. Of these:-

* Very many still came to games and even helped out behind the scenes when the club got under way.

* Some more have drifted back over the years.

* Some more have left Inverness as would have happened anyway.

* Some more have died in the intervening 19 years, as would have happened anyway.

The numbers in Thistle's case were a good deal smaller than that.

So, almost 20 years on, this residual small fraction of what, by modern standards, was a very small number in the first place, is really a drop in the ocean. However the more successful Caley Thistle has become in its transition from the Third Division to the top quarter of the SPL, the more and more bitter this tiny awkward squad has become and also the more laughable their cyberfiction.

As a result, this Christmas, with this highly successful team sitting where it is, there will rather more "Bah Humbugs" than usual in that phone box on Telford Street.

The merger, fascinating though it was to observe, is long gone and its product is now riding high in the very top tier of Scottish football.

So this Yuletide, beware men with "predominantly blue" Santa hats, telling fairlytales, bearing grudges and with back numbers of LSM sticking out of their predominantly blue santa suits!!!

EDIT - and I thoroughly agree with Caley D who posted as I was writing!!!!!  

Really Charles? I think we both know that it is a lot more than a "phone box" full of stayaways.i personally know hundreds of people who would have stopped following football in Inverness due to the merger,most follow other SPL teams now or just dont go to a game rather than follow ICT.

I put it to both yourself and Caley D that any stayaway fans are bad for ICT,can the club afford to lose even 100 hundred fans? 100 x £20 = £2000 per game i'm pretty sure the club could put that to good use over the year perhaps even an extra loan signing or to tie up a youngster for a few years,so to laugh and try and make a mockery of stayaway fans i'd be more concerned with why the club has falling attendances and what can be done to encourage stayaways to return.

Charles i love how you now want to confine the "merger" to the dustbin, do you even understand how it feels to be a football fan? a football club is a love that cant just be changed or taken away at the drop of a hat.it means a lot to many so please dont make fun of such a subject it only makes you look foolish.

We all know that you gained from the "merger" with the BBC "gig", oh but i hear you cry "they've moved the press box at Ross County and i don't get to see all my old pals"         Aaaaawwwww.

Makes me laugh all the people slagging the guy for setting up this page.It is not an ICT page it is a Caley page the pages uploaded are from the fanzines of the time,of course their is going to be a lot of anti-merger talk in them it was the era of the merger after all.

I in no way agree with any of his "views" but he was a Caley die hard who supported his club literaly to it's death and tried to save them from extinction,i wonder how many on here would go to the same lengths if ICT went through the same mess....

anyway i'll always hate Caley

I'm all for remembering and even celebrating our pre-merger history...and that includes stuff like LSM etc.  However, that page does the memory of Caledonian FC no justice whatsoever.  There's nearly 110 years of Caledonian FC and Inverness Thistle FC to be remembered, not just the "merger years".  Yes, they are important and they should not be glossed over or ignored....but obsessing over them or hiding away from recognising our true history because of them only serves to deny the current generations the chance to celebrate them.

 

And if I am honest....we're probably all as guilty for getting so drawn into this type of discussion every time it comes up.

Were you around in the pre-merger days??  LSM was a rabid caley "zine" hated Thistle,Clach,County Elgin and all the other east coast fisherman clubs.It was hilarious even for the fans of the clubs who it poked fun at.

It was also a very anti-merger publication as the boys wanted their club "Caley" in the league and who can blame them every fan wants the best for their club do we not?

One of the most ludicrous statements i have ever seen on this site to be honest,that would be akin to Dundee celebrating Dundee Uniteds history.Rangers celebrating Celtic,Man united celebrating city etc...it's never going to happen.

I take it you didn't attend matches until the ICT days? as your grasp on this is way off and the majority of fans at the time knew all about the fanzines of both clubs. To suggest the creators of this page should celebrate Thistle along with Caley is ridiculous.

The 'funny' part of the article that no-one picked up on yet (or at least posted about)

Garry O'Connor did a runner from cops after they swooped on him in a drugs bust. O'Connor, 28, is believed to have been in a car with another person when officers approached, but fled on foot. Officers quickly caught up with the ex-Hibs ace in a lane in Edinburgh.

But can they kick a football? maybe it wasnt that difficult catching a man who was at the time chasing a two headed golden unicorn on roller skates.

Haha some people really shouldn't comment on things they know nothing about

Was only meant to be a joke reefinweedallday, Some people shouldnt pretend to be experts. Or should I say some people who are experts users, shouldnt promote their hobby addiction on a Sports forum frequented by youngsters

Are you trying to say that there are people on this board with Cocaine addictions or some other sports forum? Sad reflection on how you think of your fellow supporters if you think they are all addicted to Cocaine very strange,perhaps you should refer them to Narcotics anonymous or Just ask Frank sure they will be happy to help

Silly me, reefing weed all day, sorry for making the assumption that you were pro drugs, wonder where I got that idea from.

I don't know where you got the idea from probably the same place that u presume that people on this board are addicts or people who take cocaine see two headed unicorns.

Assumptions can lead to stupidity,you should always gather the facts sir,if i was of the same thinking as you i may assume that you were the first name down on the subs bench every week

The 'funny' part of the article that no-one picked up on yet (or at least posted about)

Garry O'Connor did a runner from cops after they swooped on him in a drugs bust. O'Connor, 28, is believed to have been in a car with another person when officers approached, but fled on foot. Officers quickly caught up with the ex-Hibs ace in a lane in Edinburgh.

But can they kick a football? maybe it wasnt that difficult catching a man who was at the time chasing a two headed golden unicorn on roller skates.

Haha some people really shouldn't comment on things they know nothing about

Was only meant to be a joke reefinweedallday, Some people shouldnt pretend to be experts. Or should I say some people who are experts users, shouldnt promote their hobby addiction on a Sports forum frequented by youngsters

Are you trying to say that there are people on this board with Cocaine addictions or some other sports forum? Sad reflection on how you think of your fellow supporters if you think they are all addicted to Cocaine very strange,perhaps you should refer them to Narcotics anonymous or Just ask Frank sure they will be happy to help

Good luck to him. He's actually a top-class coach/assistant manager.

Haha that is said with tounge in cheek right? surely no one can actually believe that he is a good coach/assistant manager or manager...just a man with an over inflated ego who thinks he is a lot better than he is would be my summary of Brewster

Not really. Brewster had many flaws but he was one of the best we've ever had here in terms of keeping the players fit. Folks like Barry Wilson shed weight through Brewsters training sessions. So as long as he is not top dog in a managerial team i think you at least have yourself a good coach in the ranks. He just dosent have the charisma or man managment skills for a top job.

Fitness coaches are ten a penny to be honest,never stated that he didn't keep the players fit,if anything he went overboard with fitness and upset the players with his constant focus on fitness and not much on ball work,i was stating the fact that he is not a good manager or assistant manager.....Sacked by United,Sacked by us and the gadgies 3rd bottom(only because Calderwood saved them) overlooked for the job in Dungwall kind of sums things up,he isn't even good enough for a mediocre job let alone a top job!!!

Can the chanters chant and sit down or will they just annoy the full price paying customers in Section E?.

Their language certainly needs to be modified.

Do we really want foul mouthed anti-social yobs in our family friendly club?

can you please define anti-social yob in the terms of our supporters

Good luck to him. He's actually a top-class coach/assistant manager.

Haha that is said with tounge in cheek right? surely no one can actually believe that he is a good coach/assistant manager or manager...just a man with an over inflated ego who thinks he is a lot better than he is would be my summary of Brewster

The 'funny' part of the article that no-one picked up on yet (or at least posted about)

Garry O'Connor did a runner from cops after they swooped on him in a drugs bust. O'Connor, 28, is believed to have been in a car with another person when officers approached, but fled on foot. Officers quickly caught up with the ex-Hibs ace in a lane in Edinburgh.

But can they kick a football? maybe it wasnt that difficult catching a man who was at the time chasing a two headed golden unicorn on roller skates.

Haha some people really shouldn't comment on things they know nothing about

Why, what's he going to win in England if he doesn't go to Man U or Chelsea? The Chamionship is just the Second Division with a fancy name.

With Hearts, I expect them to potentially challenge next season. As in, a real challenge for first, unless Rangers get some investment. Hearts with Diamond and Rooney, plus the likes of Templeton and Elliot getting more games could really do something (although I'd still prefer Rooney to stay).

Hearts have also a far better chance of winning a cup than Watford or Notts County.

[/quote

one of the best posts in a long time,to mention Hearts and silverware in the same sentence is ridiculous

Niculae, gave us what 10 or 11 goals?

Off topic so I apologise, but does anyone have "SPL goals per game" figures for Niculae and Rooney?

Barrowman - 15 starts, 20 sub appearances (+ 3 sub apps for Kilmarnock), 2 goals

Rooney - 70 starts, 30 sub appearances, 44 goals

Surely Rooney hasn't been around for 100 SPL league matches with us. Would be interesting to see Dargos and Rooneys ICT SPL record.

As for most over rated i wouldn't say Barrowman was over rated at all, he came from a 2nd division side and no one on here thought he was excellent. I always took a shining to Xausa whenever he played but always wondered if he was actually that good. He done well when signing for Livingston but soon dissapeared off the face of the planet.

John Robertson certainly over rated Darran Thomson in his time and he has to be our worst ever player.

This might come as a shock but i always thought David Bingham was massively over rated. Some games he would play terrible and yet still pick up the MOM awards. I did like Bingham but just thought there was a bit too much hype around him at the time.

Bingham was a great player for us contributed so much to the team and def an ICT legend,quite a few in the over rated category Richard Hastings for one don't get me wrong a decent hard working player but how many times i heard he would be moving to a bigger club and then nothing makes me think i wasn't the only one who thought he was overrated

Stewards are just another reason why attendances are dropping all over Scotland,Do the people at the clubs not realise that they have to hold on to the customers they have left and start treating them with respect not like cattle

Football fans all over the country are being treated like scum by people who crave a little authority that they wouldn't otherwise get in their mundane lives,a luminous jacket changes that and a large percentage of them cant wait to use their authority just clowns

The Government really needs to get the bill for safe standing at football through in time for next season,the lack of atmosphere in grounds terrible and something needs to be done quickly,it works very effectively in many other european country's so why not here,Bayern Munich have a great safe standing sections which encourage a very vocal support,everyone has a standing number similair to a seat number,no problems

I used to get worried or take it personally when folk slagged this site off. After all, it has been my 'baby' for the last 16? years. However, over time I realised we cannot be everything to everybody so focused my attention on those who spend a lot of time here and that is far more satisfying. We must be doing something right to be in our 17th year of being the main ICT forum on the web, and one of the longest running Football forums around.

Whether you like P&B or not, the same has to be said for them. They are likely the busiest football forum in Scotland and outside of "Big Soccer" which covers the globe, probably one of the biggest/busiest around. Div has successfully turned a 'niche' forum for a single team (which is what we are) into one with a national, if not global appeal and I know from experience that this is not an easy task.

Most of the CTO naysayers on P&B fall into one of three categories ... they have had some form of run-in with us at some stage, they dont like the fact that we have certain rules we stick to, or they think we are in the club's back pocket ... They are entitled to their opinions but I am not going to lose any sleep over it. We will continue to have our own standards, we will continue to moderate 'in-moderation' as we do now, and we will never be in the club's back pocket (think that one was well and truly dispelled over the last couple of years).

The simple truth about the naysayers on P&B is that the vast majority of them have never had a warning from us, nor been banned from the site (with one or two notable exceptions) and if any of them - bar one - chose to return it wouldnt even raise any eyebrows !

Always a very fair moderator in my opinion even when u don't agree with views,never take comments seriously not worth it,easy for people to get spiteful behind a keyboard

I feckin hope I dont end up like the old fuddy duddys in the Main stand .

Believe me... your Peter Pan days, and with them your delusions of moral superiority, are well and truly numbered along with everybody else's! It has been said that there are two certainties in the human existence... Death and Taxes. However there is a third which intervenes before the inevitability of Death... and that is Old Codgerdom.

I also wonder how many of the Caley Animals which IHE was so en on reviving for the Elgin game now sit in the Main Stand wrapped in tartan travelling rugs and sucking Werthers Originals?

When ah wurralad there was no shortage of Old Codgers either... except that in these days they normally had the fairly potent option of reminding us that they were the generation of the Normandy Beaches or El Alamein or even the Somme, whose efforts saved young people like me from being tramped under the boot of the Hun.

At least we can take comfort in the fact that we will never be as old as you Mr Bannerman

For a home game against a team from only 40 miles away in the Scottish Cup who we haven't played in 17yrs,low ticket prices etc i would have expected 4000+

You are living in a dream world then if you think we should have had 4000 at the game. Wake up son, it's 2011.

You are also splitting the argument between league and cup games, two very different occasions.

To be honest I am sick of these wind up merchants trying to undermine everything that goes on. Big deal, Elgin had a lot of fans here.

Not a wind up merchant and not undermining anything the club has achieved i just think that it is a sad day when little over 1000 people come out to watch a team who play 40 miles away who had an intense rivalry between both Inverness clubs before the amalgamation,shocked at the apathy to be honest but then you summ that up with big deal Elgin...Obviously not one who cares for the history of Inverness football

There was clearly over 3000 at the game on Saturday. All crowds would have been declared lower across the country.

Surely the taxman should be looking in to that

If Rangers or Selic have 5'000 fans who decide not to turn up for a game, no one cares, but we have 1000 - 1500 less than normal and we're a disgrace. How many fans does everybody think should have turned up? If we used to get 1500 - 1800 in the third, then Saturday was an improvement. If we were playing Clach, how many should we have then? Or if we play Inverness UTD, there should be 50'000 with casuals waiting at the away end to 'welcome' them. The Keppoch has a darts team as well which pisses me off, as they moved from the Chieftain. Maybe people stayed away because they were worried about the potential blood bath. I'm just glad the whole thing passed of peacefully.

Are ICT as big as Rangers and Celtic?? 5,000 of any of those two would be 1/10th of their support,ICT having 1000 - 1500 less(i would say slightly more) is more than 50% of the normal attendance

For a home game against a team from only 40 miles away in the Scottish Cup who we haven't played in 17yrs,low ticket prices etc i would have expected 4000+

1500-1800 in the 3rd and you think saturday was an improvement? remembering that in the 3rd you would be lucky to get 50-100 away fans

Clach are Highland League Inverness United are amateurs bears no relevance

50,000 casuals at the away end,i'd prefer 1500 "fans" in the home end to be honest,This is football maybe you stick to darts by the sounds of your ramblings