Charles Bannerman

I don't have a complete knowledge of what David, or more specifically Tulloch, has invested in ICT but, off the top of my head, I can provide a reasonable overview. As a result of this, and other efforts, ICT certainly isn't loaded but it is no longer in debt and currently holds its head above the water. There was the approx £500,000 investment which in 2002 gave Tulloch the chair of the club and control of the board for five years. Apart from finally seeing off the last vestiges of the £2M debt of 2000, this probably also facilitated what turned out to be the imminent transition of ICT from the SFL to the SPL. Tulloch also had a significant financial input to the capital cost of the North and South stands, along with a loan from Highland Council. I don't recollect the details and figures but the Tulloch input would have assisted to the tune of several hundreds of thousands of pounds. Tulloch as a company also physically put the stands there in an incredibly short timescale and in advance of a very tight deadline in January 2005. This brought SPL football to Inverness. I would also not be surprised if I were told that Tulloch are possibly picking up quite a few odds and ends of costs relating to administration and staffing. One other major contribution by David Sutherland, albeit not a direct financial one, was his role in the setting up of the ICT Trust, of which he is still a member. He played a major part in this initiative which (and I STILL haven't had a categorical answer out of him excactly HOW!) magically spirited away from club to trust, albeit at the expense of the club losing ownership of its principal asset the stadium, over £2M of debt, mainly to the Bank of Scotland. I do not believe that this could have happened without David's input and influence. So in summary, but without some of the financial details and numbers, David Sutherland in one way or another has played a major part in the transition of ICT from an almost bankrupt middle order Division 1 club to a successful and financially relatively stable entity which plays SPL football in Inverness and is currently in the top half of the table. HOWEVER there is a fundamental difference between what has happened at Gretna and Inverness. The two most definitely are not to be compared. In contrast with what I have said above about David Sutherland and ICT, Brooks Mileson has simply thrown money at a club which does not enjoy the infrastructure necessary to be viable at anything above a very rudimentary level of play. Gretna's wages are way above what ICT have ever paid (as I'm sure David Bingham discovered) and I do not believe that the situation there is anything like sustainable without the straightforward and ongoing bankrolling of Brooks Mileson. I'm not at all convinced that balancing the books is very much of an issue at all at Raydale Park. In summary, David Sutherland's overall input to Caley Thistle has had the effect of creating as financially stable and as viable an entity as it is reasonable to hope for in the current football climate. The emphasis has been on using his input to stabilise and give a viable future to the club. This is certainly not a straightforward bankrolling job. On the other hand Brooks Mileson appears to have created and continues to prop up a dreadfully precarious house of cards which has stretched up very high but could so easily come crashing down.

Sandy, I'm not going to become involved in a debate over this and will therefore have to restrict myself to the hope that your apparently insatiable need to vent your anger will have moved on to some other subject by next week.

I'm going to offer an alternative view in support of my colleagues in Aberdeen... which may not be altogether popular on this site! You have to remember that in broadcasting, news moves on very quickly indeed and North Tonight was on air all of 50 hours after the ICT match took place. There can be absolutely no doubt that ICT's result on Saturday was an exceptional achievement which was well documented over the weekend. So in terms of broadcast news, by Monday evening it had become decidedly dated. Things move on irrespective of how much ICT fans might want to savour the moment. By the time "Grampian" (STV) got to it after 6pm on the Monday, so many other people had done it and STV really needed to look for something else to lead their sport with. The fact that Dundee United had hit the bottom is of major interest to another very large slice of their audience and, although resulting from another Saturday match, is something which is ongoing for at least another week. This is not, as Sandy suggests, "a real non story"... not to the very large number of people interested in DUFC at any rate. There must have therefore been a strong editorial case to jump in that direction, especially with the one to one interview with Brewster on going bottom available. At least they showed the ICT goal. I sometimes feel that running SPL goal clips on Reporting Scotland is right on its last legs in terms of still being newsworthy. Newspapers tend to have a longer shelf life but if you look at the Highland News, published Wednesday teatime, you will not generally see football match reports. Appearing when it does, the HN is nowadays very much styling itself a "preview paper". It would be very easy to respond to all of this by pointing out that Scotsport shows extended highlights of the SPL on a Monday night, but that is a sports programme not a news one where things tend to move on rather more quickly. Now Sandy (HYPOTHETICALLY!) if Ross County did something wonderful on the Saturday such as, say, beat Gretna 6-0 while ICT went to the bottom of the SPL, would you be complaining if the County result had, by the Monday eveing, been ousted from the top of STV's sports bulletin by the ongoing relegation crisis in Inverness? Come to think of it, I suppose you might well.....

What's going to be the loss in revenue as a result of one home game being switched from a Saturday to a Monday? Let's be quite pessimistic and say that the gate drops by a swingeing 3000. There would have to be quite a large underlying crowd like and Aberdeen game for that to happen. There are seven other opponents against whom there wouldn't be that kind of drop, but let's be pessimistic. At an average of £15 a head, that would be 45K in cash lost. What would the loss be from corporate hospitality etc? Am I being too pessimistic to suggest another 5K? Let's quite gloomily suggest that, from a big crowd the gross reduction would be 50K. Let's err once again on the safe side and assume that there would be no cost savings in stewarding etc as a result of a much smaller crowd. So the worst case appears to be a net decline in income of 50K for a game. So how many Caley Thistle home games well be switched from Saturdays to Mondays in return for an extra £300,000? As many as six which would be needed to cancel out the extra 300K? Of course not! It looks to me as if it would be very difficult for this enhanced Setanta deal to be less finacially disadvantageous. NB - I am only doing a ballpark calculation on finaces here.

Johndo... this has been going on for so long that if you don't hurry up, that pint is actually going to COST 70 shillings! Hey... that's quite a thought isn't it? A pint already isn't that much less than 70 shillings (£3.50) in any case. Dearest I can find in Inverness is 62 shillings (£3.10) but I haven't been in the Marriott of late. A far cry from lager and lime in the Lochgorm for 2/4d (less than 12p)!

I certainly had no intention of raising this issue anywhere and merely phrased my earlier post as I did, perhaps with a touch of satire, to highlight the fundamental absurdity of this thread being started in the first place (unless it was IHE in ironic alter ego mode). However now that it has been, I think the upshot is to show that ICT fans, who are not the easiest to please!, are more than satisfied with their manager. MIDGE55... why not simply stop digging yourself in any deeper! (Even if you are IHE in disguise) Celtic1Caley3... to say that fans' confidence in Charlie is "miles in excess" of any confidence that I will become a great athlete is to **** poor Charlie with faint praise! Even if you meant the 5000 miles you ran in 2004, that would still vastly overrate any chance I have of athletic greatness. Enough of this now... and off to Dingwall..... IHE... can I take the manner in which you described me above as a professional clinical diagnosis?!

So from this thread, can we in the press corps feel entitled to go with the line "Caley Thistle fans have given manager Charlie Christie an overwhelming vote of confidence....."? PS - a post briefly appeared asking if MIDGE55 was actually one of Johndo's windups in the tradition of his legendary GREENBHOY LARSSON alias. Unfortunately it disappeared very quickly because this is a question well worth asking! IHE... are you at it again?!

Eye Settee... I have a feeling we may know each other from an earlier existence!

As it happens a school contemporary of mine just about fits TBB's description but I'd better not say any more since it could be wildly, wildly wrong!

On the subject of the Bully Wee, I remember reading a newspaper article which came up with several ideas as to its origin but could come to no conclusion. It's also interesting that a multiply postponed DU Scottish Cup tie should be mentioned in a thread where the "Jags" part of ICT is being asked about, because the record for postponements happens to be held by Inverness Thistle.... 29 for a Scottish Cup tie against Falkirk early in 1979. Now to digress just a little, that winter was one of two on the trot which were extremely cold and at that point people were asking if we were going into another ice age. Then they invented global warming. Can't remember if I mentioned the 29 postponements in Against All Odds or not. You've got me thinking we should maybe get it put online now but I don't know if Highland Printers would still have the original discs. Oh, by the way Caithness Gal, you may or may not know that when Jags Park went out of use as a football ground after the merger in 1994, the floodlights and enclosure were sold to Wick Academy to upgrade Harmsworth Park to specification for the Highland League to which they'd just been elected in place of Thistle, Caley and Ross County. And here's a bit of trivia.... the day the Wickers loaded the stuff on a lorry and took it "up ee rodd" was the day DU beat Rangers 1-0 in the Scottish Cup Final, the goal coming from a certain Mr. C Brewster!

With apologies to Orwell... all mergers are unequal, but some mergers are more unequal than others.... except that you'll be hoping that after tonight's North Cup semi this one would become a little more equal than before!

I can exclusively reveal that, further to merger talks between ICT and Nairn County in a bid to bring annual Champions League football to the Highlands, the main reason for the proposed development of Tornagrain is as a venue for a 70,000 seater stadium in neutral territory.

Caley D... your request in red seems sort of to assume that everybody knows how to do this!

Dazza.... he used to do some wonderful curries!

"With me I have Kathy Jamieson, the MSP for Heid-the-Ba-Jimmy-Ah'm-a Shopaholic West.... Mrs Jamieson, what exactly is the Executive's stance on Football Banning Orders?" "Y'orright Bernard son? Ah'm just oot o' Primark and ah'm aff tae Lidls now tae get ma man somethin' fur his tea..... but see yon Susan Deacon wan....."

Once again I find myself obliged to expose the myth that Caley Thistle crowds are still suffering from the aftershocks of the merger. For a start, the number of "refuseniks" when CT started out in 1994 was quite a small proportion of the 600 or so, which was the average combined home gate of Caley and Thistle in their latter spell in the Highland League. Even in these early days of CT, this was no more than a minor disadvantage and a small price to pay for what was created. In the 12 intervening years, a lot of these refuseniks have started coming to games and indeed others will have either left the area or even died off. As a result there are now very few people in and around Inverness who were Caley and Thistle attenders but who still do not come to ICT games on principle. Meanwhile in these 12 years, average HOME support has risen to something in the region of 3000, so really the refuseniks who are still around now represent no more than a drop in the ocean. This never was a major issue at any time and hasn't been one at all for some years.

TBB... my main problem in the classroom is that my pupils never seem to have a sense of humour! However I would have to admit that humour is becoming more and more difficult as one generation gives way to a younger one. For instance when I am discussing "diols" (as in antifreeze), references to telephones are now fruitless. Similarly "I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it" falls on deaf ears and when I describe my relationship with something as "similar to that between Basil Fawlty and the Eleven Hundred" I get equally blank looks. "Nobody expects a Spansh Inquisition" has equally slid from the public awareness and, amazingly, Skodas these days are regarded as quite respectable motors. Even more alarming is that, from a couple of decades later, "Wayne and Waynetta" and "loadsamoney" have also slipped from the awareness of the current generation, although one or two do remember Jonathan Watson's much more recent "Sean and Seanetta"... with their little daughter Setanta. (Scotty... I fully expect this to be removed as a football thread!)

In the post at the top of this thread, caleyboy wrote..... "I know it must hurt but he and Parky must analise the game....." I have no doubt that if Charlie and Parky literally took Caleyboy's advice, it WOULD hurt!!! (Or did caleyboy really mean "analyse"?!

MFTJ.... that Jags result in1985 is not one I'd be likely to forget! On the assumption that Thistle had no chance at all, I treated myself to a much needed Saturday off. However I happened to be driving back up Kingsmills Road about 4:55 so I stopped and asked these guys in black and red what the score was. "3-0" was the (goodness knows why) somewhat subdued reply. "Never mind, lads. Next year, maybe." "3-0 THISTLE!!!!" I really regret having missed that one. Question for former Jaggies.... when Thistle went to Celtic Park in the next round, who was their substitute striker? (HINT - the same man came on as sub in a different position in Bruce McCraw's testimonial on Sunday.) By the way, I tend to be a bit of a pain in the a**e when it comes to the minutiae of the merger and apologise if I appear over pedantic. I think this originates from the need during these very delicate days to report things with absolute precision and impartiality!

Thanks Caley D... I hadn't realised that Wikipedia was an open source. As far as I am concerned that means that I will be looking on its contents with a good deal more caution in the future. At best, a lot of Internet sources are of dubious reliability and what you've just said has certainly downgraded this one. As for adding to it, that, unfortunately, requires a degree of technical competence so I'll just give it a miss!

A couple of points here. As far as I recollect, it was in 1985 and not 89-90 that Jags beat Kilmarnock 3-0 at Kingsmills. Also, whilst understanding the need for brevity is describing the merger process, I have some reservations about this statement from Wikipedia"..... "Caledonian decided to apply for membership, as did city rivals Inverness Thistle. The SFL hinted that a joint application might be more successful and the boards of Caley and Thistle decided to merge. This decision was met with widespread opposition by supporters of both sides but an amalgamation went ahead." It's principally the second sentence I take issue with. For a start, even within the necessary constraints of a single sentence, it oversimplifies a rather more complex process. Secondly, and possibly more importantly, it was not the "boards" of the two clubs which made the decision. Neither club had a board since they were both members clubs. It was the Memberships of the two clubs, on the recommendations of their respective committees, which corporately both voted in favour of a merger. I'm also not convinced that either club decided to apply on its own account although it was always a possibility. Caley had had a "letter of intent" lodged with the SFL for some years which wasn't an application since, when it was lodged, no vacancy existed. It was more a standing delcaration of interest in SFL membership. Thistle had just missed out on a previous application during their heyday in the early 70s. But given the extent of their financial decline in the intervening 20 years, I'm not convinced that they could or would have sustained an independent application in 1993. But there's no point in rehashing history. I for one am in no doubt that the outcome which (eventually!) arose was the best one for football in Inverness.

Especially for Third Division football!

Don't know too much about this since I am now home but I gather the Pistoia team were at least a bit more competitive, which is what the manager said he wanted. Dargo - 2 McCaffrey Wyness Wilson. 1-0 HT. More than that I don't know. What I have is just the result of a quick call to Trevor Martin on the team bus back from the ground at Pistoia to Montecatini. If Italy win the Final, all left over there will have a WONDERFUL time tomorrow night!

OK so that does make Rory McAllister's goal last night ICT's fastest ever. I remember checking that up when Dargo scored against Celtic before Christmas but last night could only remember that the fastest was in an earlier friendly. The time escaped me. Thanks Scotty. I'm now heading home so won't be able to post on the second game but the club seem to be well on the ball on that anyway.

I have been particularly impressed by Parratt, both in tonight's game and on the training field.