Charles Bannerman

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

the sources quoted are speculation as the fee was never disclosed as far as I know

 

I have a feeling that club chairmen probably get as big a laugh at publicly quoted transfer fees as they do at publicly quoted "candidates" for managerial vacancies.

I think there are at least three sources of faults or weaknesses here. I remain in no doubt that Christie herself has to a large extent been the architect of her own downfall, probably because she skates so close to opponents that she puts herself in danger of either falling or being impeded or fouling someone else. Three consecutive "misfortunes" was beginning to stretch credibility just a bit but when that moved on to six out of six, then surely there must be a root cause to this. Six catastrophes in six events just stretches credibility a bit too far.

Then you have to look critically at the nature of the sport, including some of the observations made by DD in the previous post. Clearly the situation is not helped by a scenario which almost creates the temptation to take risks, hence compounding any weaknesses on the part of the competitor.

Finally, Team GB management have at least two big questions to answer - why did they allow her to do that car crash of an interview after the 500 which will haunt her for the rest of her career and her life, and why did they allow her even to take to the ice for the third event, the 1000m, when it was clear that her right ankle was in a pretty bad way?

The second question there also applies broadly to Radcliffe at the 2004 Athens Olympic marathon, and one of the answers is probably related to our medals-driven funding system. There are huge pressures applied to our various sports to produce medals which are, in effect, bought with Lottery money. This tends to run the show and forces governing body officials into making bizarre decisions in order to protect their future funding.

It's not just football that has a very ambiguous relationship with money.

56 minutes ago, The_Sponge said:

Why not? Multiple world champion, multiple world record holder and will still be at her peak. Don't recall Paula Radcliffe, Colin Jackson, Steve Cram etc. getting this much grief when they failed to win Olympic Gold despite being world champion, world record holder.......

I don't think any of that lot crashed out/DQd six times in as many events at two Olympics and came away with absolutely nothing. Notwithstanding that short track speed skating has a relatively large tumble rate, I think the whole manner in which this catastrophe has unfolded has been incredibly bad.

4 hours ago, davie said:

Charles, I've been in touch with supporters direct today to see if we can move this forward. hope to post something as soon as possible. this is a situation that now needs to be sorted. 

I'm glad somebody has taken the initiative since this has really become quite an astonishing situation.

One thing the club board could perhaps do is to establish exactly what the situation is with regard to CJT and make a public statement of the outcome principally, as Glover says, for the benefit of the fans whose body this is meant to be.

If whoever were previously involved in CJT are unable to respond to the likes of queries by posters on this forum, then I would suggest that it falls to the club board to achieve clarity - better still, progress - in respect of 10% of the Company's voting rights.

She's now saying she'll be back for Beijing in 2022. PLEASE!!...... DON'T!!!!

Let's also not forget that CJT holds 10% of the voting rights at a general meeting - and it has already been suggested that if CJT goes defunct, so do these voting rights, which represent something like the third or fourth biggest single source of influence within the club.

Dunno about home crowds - there were several in 3 figures during the first season - but in Montecatini during the pre-season tour in 2006, I was in an away crowd of something like 12.?

20 minutes ago, AncientMariner said:

Grass doesn't   grow unless the temperature is consistently above 5 degrees which is why ALL grass pitches are a mess this time of year. I always admired the condition of the pitch at ICT, the groundstaff do an excellent job.

Even if the temperature was above 5C, there probably wouldn't be enough light around to achieve significant growth during the winter. It's the old story of putting the lawn mower in the shed in September and taking it back out in April. On the other hand, in more recent years, these rough times have seemed to drift a little.

Tommy ("Grass grows by the inch and is ruined by the foot"?)  has a 30 year-long reputation for keeping and sustaining a fine football pitch. It therefore seems unlikely that the reason for the current state of the pitch has anything to do with the capability of the ground staff, but will far more probably be something to do with availability of resources.

I have to say that I'm a it bemused by an event where there's a fairly high probability of being fouled out of a medal by a rival and, although the rival is DQd, your prospects are also at an end.

But, tumbling out of FIVE Olympic events in a row? I really think there has got to be more to it than bad luck and that her tactic of skating so very close to rivals is not only increasing the chances of her falling but also putting her in a position to be caught by someone else. 

My sympathy with her is beginning to evaporate now and there's also one other question. Why on EARTH did the team management allow her to go through with that awful interview after the 500, the consequences of which will probably haunt her for the rest of her life?

It was even more cringeworthy than Alan MacRae's unveiling of Alex McLeish!

12 minutes ago, Caman said:

Wow, we're not very good at these. 

Don't get too many to practise with!

47 minutes ago, caleyboy said:

has it really taken all this time to come to this conclusion? Not like you CB. The deletion of this crap is long overdue!

Absolutely not, but it is worthwhile using this already well established hubris to reinforce what was being said in the post in question.

In other words, the irony was worth revisiting.

3 hours ago, A Sofa In San Tropez said:

Very worrying that financially the Club is still in such an insecure state.

New money is still required to come in from external sources to enable the Club to even remain solvent.

The current board admit that to be the stark reality of the current financial situation. Take of the gloss of the statement and it can be viewed as akin to waving the white ( financial ) flag.

Is this an admittance that they have done all they can, invested all they have / all they are willing to.

Frightening times indeed.

Those fresh sources of money seemingly have to see their new money go into ICTFC and then work within the current Muirfield Mills board + structure.

Unless that prospect changes I find it difficult to imagine it to be an attractive investment to anyone, especially bearing in mind that any investor will definitely not receive any return on their money. Reasonably deep pockets will be required to have the Club operating on the current business model.

 I would say the fresh money must come from sources with an affinity for the Club, perhaps even a previous history with the Club. 

Would any potential investors have the financial muscle to pay off the Muirfield Mills investment?? ( circa £200k ).

This pay off  before a penny goes into Club and a new board formed to move it forward.

As I say frightening times for the Club indeed.

This post raises a number of very interesting issues and questions.

What do "new money", "fresh money" and "investment" mean? Do these terms simply mean charitable donations from wealthy individuals to right the ship after a period when the club lived beyond its means - and to allow expenditure to continue at a level which exceeds earnings? What actually is an investor who "will definitely not receive any return on their money"? Is this a benefactor? Or a source of subsidy? Or are these two euphemisms for a "sugar daddy" simply synonymous?

Why does this practice appear acceptable in the case of ICT (who also received £6M, albeit with a few qualifications, from Tulloch) whilst dismissed as "Uncle Roy's Back Pocket" in the case of Ross County?

Have the current board - who have been in post for only a short time - REALLY done all they can?

Who are "sources with an affinity for the Club, perhaps even a previous history with the Club"? Is this a call for control of the club to pass to a regime involving the McGilvray family, or Alan Savage, or both? Or someone else?

What is the thinking behind advocating that the Muirfield Mills influence be dispensed with? They are not especially large shareholders in their own direct right, although they have rather more than the suggested "circa £200K". The last full Companies House statement of holdings indicates £376,000 worth of shares, and I would be very surprised if MM were not also involved in the additional 450,000 shares allocated just last week in return for money put up front since the end of last season to keep the club afloat. I am also led to believe that another significant slice of this came from a source with a previous history with the club (but no inverted commas).

Remember also that there are several other fairly large but quite fragmented holdings on the part of, for instance, Roddy Ross, David Cameron, the McGilvray Family, Orion Engineering, the ICT Trust (controlled by MM), David Sutherland (personally as opposed to Tullochs who donated their shares to the Trust) and - in the form of 10% of voting rights - the perpetually elusive Caley Jags Together (which is an ongoing concern).

Where is this "new board" going to materialise from - a board which would continue to operate in an environment where shareholding remains fragmented?

Finally - has there, of late, actually been a further, sudden deterioration in the club's financial affairs.... or is this simply a Twitter rumour to which the Board felt obliged to respond with its statement?

35 minutes ago, ICTPAISLEY said:

If we can't afford to sustain the club on the current tv deal and gate receipts then of course the players are being paid above the market value.  I would much rather have the standard drop in football in Scotland than pay over the odds for players to try and compete. 

So would I, and this applies not only to ICT but to a large number of clubs. There is also an interesting potential debate here in sporting psychology and ethics (or possibly ethos) about the extent to which, in football, cash overrides other influences in providing a source of motivation to train and perform.

Then, when you wonder how much the players involved in the alleged drunken incident at their Spanish training camp actually get paid, you really do have to ask if the p**s is getting taken rather too often?

2 hours ago, ictchris said:

If players are being paid “generally” at a certain level, that is their market value. TV deals with different kick off arrangements aren’t evidence that players are paid above their market value. TV deals are one component of what gives footballers their market value.

I'm not sure about that. Wages are being artificially inflated above levels which, in a normal business environment or market, would be determined by the income coming into the sport. Clubs persist with this regime of over payment through living outwith their means, by carrying unrealistic liabilities, and by depending on the said "sugar daddies" - who can be as easily gone tomorrow as they are here today. Also contributing to this process is the sport as a whole straining every last sinew of the cash raising process by agreeing to TV deals which have significant down sides which include bizarre kick off times.

I would also suggest that any argument that suggests that the current TV deals are part of a genuine market value, then there is no case whatsoever for fans to complain about the truly nonsensical kick off times which are being imposed on them by these deals.

1 hour ago, Stirling Observer said:

What a load of nonsense. We are in the championship because we overpay players compared to other sports?

Not quite. Football generally pays its players above, sometimes well above, their market value - hence creating, among other things, the need to bankroll that through TV deals with arrangements like 5:15 Sunday kick-offs. One of the main reasons Caley Thistle is on an unsound financial footing is that it latterly paid its players even further above that market value (ie compared, relatively, with the rest of football) in a failed attempt to remain in the Premiership.

2 hours ago, Yngwie said:

Do you have any suggestions as to how this could be resolved?

   

Nice one, Yngwie.... but it will never happen. It's the obvious, logical thing - has been for years - but football is far too tribal, or indeed human nature in general is far too tribal. Many of the factors which helped things in Inverness to limp across the line in 1993 - 94 do not exist with respect to what is otherwise a viable next step.

4 hours ago, TheMantis said:

Serves them right for being shyte at fitba if you ask me.

The bigger concern is people who are shyte at fitba getting big money for being shyte at fitba. (qv, among others, ICTFC in recent years.)

And then there are all these sets of Emperor's New Clothes which Scottish football in particular continues to acquire.

31 minutes ago, IBM said:

And worse than that there are a hell of a lot go over the bridge 

You are doubtless absolutely correct there IBM but it's difficult to have much reasonable issue with that, possibly for a number of reasons.

Those who go over the bridge from Inverness will comprise both Invernessians and non-Invernessians (aka "incomers"). The latter category very possibly don't distinguish between ICT and Ross County in terms of local loyalty because, as "incomers", they have little or none; nor should they be expected to. They probably choose to go over there rather than here on the basis of other factors such as the match day experience - which now also includes County playing in a higher league. There is no particular motivation for them to go to ICT based on any affinity with Inverness, and some will actually be of Ross and Cromarty origin. On the other hand the reasons for Invernessians going over the bridge are possibly more complex and are probably a bigger concern. However they may well include ICT's historic failure to project itself to the local population.

My own belief is that the Inner Moray Firth doesn't have sufficient population or economic weight to support two Premiership football teams in the longer term - even when one is heavily supported by a benefactor. However when the other comes up with one or two bad decisions, appointments and financial strategies, errors which it's not in a position to buy itself out of, then that's the one that will be squeezed - especially in this marginal inner Moray Firth economic environment.

From the early 2000s Caley Thistle, saved from possible extinction by substantial Tulloch intervention and with a lot of largely good administration, more or less hung in there in the top tier and at times punched well above its weight. Eventually, Ross County's assistance from an ongoing benefactor got them into the SPL/Premiership as well, and on a number of occasions they have had to sign their way out of danger. The "perfect storm" has been a combination of County's financial muscle alongside strategic errors of governance creeping in at ICT, and we now have a situation which includes more and more likely going over the bridge on a Saturday.

Roy MacGregor put the Hotel on Mayfair and in times of difficulty produced a "Get Out Of Jail(end) Free" card. Meanwhile Caley Thistle paid far too much for Old Kent Road, only maintained it by selling various other properties and got no return.

"Always In Our Shadow" and "Pride Of The Highlands" certainly have something of a hollow ring about them now.

1 hour ago, Stirling Observer said:

Who cares about any other sports, how they train and what they are paid? How is that relevant to Inverness Caledonian Thistle performing in the championship. 

Unfortimately it's that kind of insular attitude which has contributed to landing football in the state it's in - a general state of paying players far too much, often for not doing a geeat deal, which in turn is one root cause of ICT's current specific predicament.

Has it not occurred to posters who have been calling for a "sugar daddy" for ICT,  just how bizarre it is that there should be some kind of institutionalised expectation that wealthy people should subsidise businesses which are loss making because they pay employees way above their market  value? Football shouldn't assume that it is owed a living by rich people simply to keep turnstile prices down. And yes, 5:15 on a Sunday is a daft KO time, but it's simply a consequence of inflated wages creating pressure to do TV deals.

If football would only wake up and sniff the coffee, it might actually learn something from the other sports which organise their affairs in a far more sustainable manner.

On 03/02/2018 at 4:57 PM, Polo Chick said:

Can anyone confirm that the team only train for 1 hour a day 3 days a week ? and were also beaten by the youth team recently in a bounce game 4 nil who by all accounts train 5 days a week

 

 

As far as I am aware, the ICT training regime requires rather more commitment than suggested there.

However there are people in other sports who train 6 or 7 days a week alongside their day jobs, using their wages there to cover their training and competition costs.

There are also some footballers in the Highland League who are paid hundreds of pounds a week and receive four figure signing on fees for training twice, or even once a week and playing in the fifth tier of Scottish football.

54 minutes ago, RiG said:

One the plus side one of our former managers will finally be paid off this summer. Just one more to go after that...

I often wonder how much money Scottish/ UK/ World football spends annually, paying former managers for doing absolutely nothing?

Thanks to Fraz and Yngwie for the much needed reality check!

16 minutes ago, bughtmaster said:

Perhaps then C B we could do with having some good reporters up here that will assist the cause of our Club.        

It is not the function of a reporter to "assist the cause" of a club. It is the function of a reporter to report events, be they positive or negative. What you are describing is more like a PR operative.