Scotty

You want Hamilton to stay up for the sake of sportsmanship and fair play? Really? That is an interesting and somewhat beautifully ironic debate .... should we ourselves 'cheat' by fielding a lesser team or putting in less effort so that we can punish St Mirren for the 'cheating' of one of their players on Saturday ......... I say NO. Hamilton and St Mirren are in the position they are because over the course of the season - like us two seasons ago - they have not performed well enough over their last 36 games. If the midweek games mean that there is anything left to play for on Saturday then it is for St Mirren and Hamilton to take it to their opposition and fight for their own survival. For ICT to aim for anything less than a win is disrespectful to Hamilton, to St Mirren, to themselves, and to all the fans who will travel to the game, including the Highland Marchers who will be putting in a supreme effort to get to Saturday's game.

Going by the highlights - now up http://ictfc.com/video for those who may not have seen them - suggests it is a harsh decision. Ref had his back to the incident as play had gone in the other direction so cant be faulted, and I can see how the linesman might interpret it worse than it was. Looks like nothing more than handbags with a fair bit of embellishment from the Midden player who succeeds in getting Duncan a red instead of what might perhaps have been a deserved yellow for the push/bump. If Duncan had to go, then so did Mair for the throat grab. Might be worthy of an appeal but somehow dont think that will be sanctioned by the club/manager.

Yeah, it will say report to follow for a while, but further down the page is what we would call a "box score" thingummyjig ... it shows team lineups, subs, scorers, cards etc. Wont slag off the BBC because when I enter the scores from today into our system the league table will also be 'erroneous'

Now 1-0 (Rooney). Look at the links in the very first post of this thread for game day text coverage .... P&J and BBC text links update quickest. Also - you could look on the front page of the site and click on the match report story - I update that as the game is in progress.

Will be interesting to hear the views of those at the game but the commentary team definitely think we should have had 2 if not more penalty kicks awarded ... including the incident that led to Duncan's sending off. feck !!! Rooney hits the woodwork for the third time !

<table width="80%" border="0" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" bgcolor="#003300"> <tr> <td width="55" scope="col"><div align="left"><img src="http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/ball_icon.png"'>http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/ball_icon.png" alt="ball" longdesc="ball icon"></div></td> <td bgcolor="#003300"><div style="background-color:#003300;" align="center"> <h2><font color="#FFFF00" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">THE MATCHDAY THREAD</font></h2> <h5><font color="#FFFF00" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Discuss ICT & other games in this thread as they happen </font></h5> </div></td> <td width="55" scope="col"><div align="right"><img src="http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/ball_icon.png"'>http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/ball_icon.png" alt="ball" longdesc="ball icon"></div></td> </tr> </table> <table width="100%" border="0" 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I personally have never hidden behind any of the laptops (or desktops) I have used on this site (or any other site) over the years and if I had a problem with your actions or those of the group, you would know about it. I am normally very diplomatic, but I am also forthright. I did exactly that with one person at Toronto FC who stands about 10 feet away from me. At MLS games, the national anthems of Canada and USA are played before the games. He would sing the Canadian one normally and then do a high pitched pisstake on the USA one. I am not American, not really pro-American, but to do that to any anthem is disrespectful so I told him that "politely" and asked him to stop doing it. He has never done it again and no grudges are held (not by me anyway). It is true that there are some users on here who prefer to remain anonymous, and thats fine, they can do that, its their choice. However, I would say that the vast majority of users on here ... especially the ones who post a lot, which is who I presume you are meaning, do so in the knowledge that most of them know each other and can identify the username to the face. Most have a pseudonym they use here, and that is entirely different than hiding behind a keyboard ...

The subs were Jonny Tuffey (staying) Stuart Golabek Russell Duncan Gavin Morrison (staying) Eric Odhiambo Dani Sanchez Alex MacDonald (end of loan) so yes, DC's highlight is right .... 4 of the subs were players being released, along with the other two he mentioned (Innes/Munro) who started the game ... no need to mention the others as they are staying, or in the case of MacDonald, his loan is ending.

on the first point .... not true. yes some users of this site might bitch about you if/when you have done something they didnt like ... in the same way they bitch about performances, about the board, about the moderators, about CaleyD's shirts when he was the announcer and a thousand other things .... what you fail to mention is that the group that make up the "us" you speak of have also had plenty of support in the past when you have felt victimised and the site users have agreed with you, or even the comments about how "section G was pretty good today" which I recall reading on more than one occasion. on the second point .... please explain to me how anything posted here is behind your backs? You can read the topic, its out in the open for all to see (whether logged in or not) and its also quite permissible for you to register and argue your own point which is exactly what you have done today ... If you re-read my own post on the matter, I am not bitching about you, I am not calling you out about behaviour (because I obviously wasnt there), and I am agreeing with you that the rules are a farce and should be changed ... all I am guilty of doing is suggesting to you that you might want to employ some strategy in how and when you bend, push or even break the rules .... so if that is bitching about you ... guilty as charged !!! Otherwise, what you are typing is displaying the classic signs of paranoia and I am sure IHE - who has not only pushed the envelope, but has posted it and had it delivered when it comes to the rules - will be along to offer the benefit of his professional and supporter experiences !!!

The bit I just highlighted is the problem .... no point having a go at anyone else for stating an opinion. The plain and simple fact is that the powers that be, most of whom have never stood on a terrace in their lives have deemed that standing is not allowed and when you "get picked on" for standing up, its because the stewards are applying the stadium rules - ludicrous and ridiculous though they may be. Much like referees, stewards are also not consistent, treating home/away fans differently, or being more officious with smaller supports while leaving the green and blue hordes to do as they please .... its not right, and its very frustrating, but I am afraid you just have to suck it up because regardless of anything else, what you are trying to do is against the rules and you will not win the argument by defying those rules or making excuses about inconsistent treatment. Get militant with them, and they will just give the same back tenfold. Been there, done that, got the bruises and scars to show for it. You want to make that better? You need to change tactics, and (for some) stop trotting out the excuse that "they are allowed to do it". Many stewards (not all) love the power trip, and its a lot easier to pick on a small support, and the younger members of that support when they want to feel like a big man .... equally, if you give them dogs abuse back, or disrespect the decent stewards then there is only ever going to be one winner .... and thats not you. You perhaps need to pay heed to where/how you can push the limits and where you might need to take a step back if you know certain stewards will be assholes. You also need to try and change it from within !!! The Safe Standing campaign has gained ground in recent years, and the introduction of safe standing areas in German grounds is a good focus to show it can be done, and it can be done safely .... you just have to keep pushing. I cannot and will not slag off any of the people attending games given that I manage maybe 1 or 2 a year on a trip home if I am lucky ... however, I will note that compared to my bi-weekly fix of footie at Toronto FC, where standing is encouraged (even mandated) in certain sections, and used by the club for the last 5 years to "sell the atmosphere" of the club, on my last trip home I was pretty shocked at how 'docile' we had become and disheartened by the explanation that it was because of this rule and that rule .... its no longer about allowing people to enjoy themselves, its about petty rules and 'concerns'. Thats not football !!! But to change it for the better, it needs to be somewhat collaborative because those in charge have shown time and time again, that when presented with confrontation they will go ten times further in the other direction !!!!

Highlights video now up on the shop/video site ..... http://ictfc.com/ Great goal from Granty and looks like a good performance all round.

if we were playing St Mirren I might buy into that ... but c'mon, we always raise our game at home versus either half of the OF ! The proof of the pudding will be the next 3 bottom six games ....

I believe the referees should pick it ..... there would never be another OF winner ever again ... they would be too scared that Celtic/Rangers would say it was a conspiracy when a player from the other side got picked !

Pele used the 'stick you on the transfer list' rouse to good effect on a few occasions, with Wyness being the prime example. I dont think the Rankin situation was overly similar to Granty in that, yes, both were told they could leave, but in Rankin's case, it was the manager who ended up desperately wanting to keep him, whereas in Grant's case, he obviously wants to stay at ICT but the manager is unconvinced ... so far. Its all carrot and stick .... Granty has been hit with the stick (told he can leave) and this morning the most humongous carrot one of our managers has ever dangled has been deployed where TB has said he may reconsider. Granty effectively has 3 games to grab that carrot and I for one hope he does. Granty is no world beater, and I hate it when he plays hoofball instead of football but he is a decent, solid centre half who has ICT running through his veins just like Rosscoe, and I would say, just like Russell Duncan too. Unfortunately, I dont think there is any turning back on the Russell Duncan contract, there definitely seems to be another issue involved here as on those rare occasions when he did get a game, he outperformed those who were selected for his position ... this makes the decision seems less performance related and more of a personnel (or personal) decision. I hope we retain Granty, and although I would rather he was kept on at ICT, I wish Russell well wherever he ends up. Oh, and I also fall into the "AYE" category - if it wasnt obvious

Slightly longer version of the article on the BBC from Mr Bannerman http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13262352.stm

I would disagree .... not normally a fan of Wikipedia, but this snippet seems to match with my recollection of his time at Motherwell .... "..... Eric Black was briefly in charge with the club floating near the foot of the table before it was placed in administration in April 2002 with losses approaching GBP 2,000,000 yearly. Black resigned, and was replaced by Terry Butcher. The club's outlook remained bleak as they were forced to make redundant or release 19 players and replace them with younger players. Relegation in 2002?03 - normally automatic following a last-place finish in the league - was avoided on a technicality, as First Division winners Falkirk lacked a stadium meeting Premier League regulations. Despite the lack of resources, Butcher was able to find a number of young talented players to play for the club; crucially, when many of these moved on, including Stephen Pearson and James McFadden, they brought revenue in the form of transfer fees, and with John Boyle waiving the club's personal debt to him, its financial future was assured by the conclusion of the 2004?05 season with the club's yearly losses falling to one of the lowest figures in the Premier League and the club coming out of administration in time to avoid a ten-point Premier League penalty which was being phased in for teams in administration. On the field, the club also managed to reach the League Cup final, although they were comprehensively defeated by Rangers. Butcher moved on to Sydney at the end of the 2005?06 season ....."

Source ??? It is true to say Adam is going to be out of contract in a few weeks, but the club have not said he is surplus and he has not said he isn't signing a new contract if/when it is offered. Please do not clutter up a factual thread with your own speculation

Its definitely a sad day, both have been stalwarts of our club as have the other two players whose release is not garnering as much chagrin. Granty is 3rd in all time appearances for the club at 363 (3 behind Hastings) and Russell is 5th on the list at 351 (2 behind Barry). I wonder if either of them might move up a place between now and end of season? With Roy McBain in 6th on 342 and Golly 8th on 263 we have just cut 4 of our all-time top 10 appearance makers who have an incredible 1319 appearances between them. You do not replace that level of experience overnight, nor do you expect people to be happy about losing players who have shown such fabulous loyalty to the club in a day and age where such things are seldom heard off .... Personally, I am also sad at the end of the Granty era for another reason. I personally sponsored him when he first broke into the squad as a youngster and either by myself, through the site or latterly through the "internutters" sponsorship of the site members, he has been sponsored by us for his entire ICT career - at the start, when he started to cover for injuries, when he broke into the team and formed a partnership with Bobby, through the time he was captain, and right up to the end of this season. Very sad.

[info='PLEASE NOTE: ']Audio links may or may not work during this match. These are the default Saturday links and may or may not be operational. Also, please note that we do NOT allow links to unauthorised streaming footage of games to be posted in the open forum. All such links will be removed and the user may be excluded from the thread at the discretion of the moderating team.[/info]

<table width="80%" border="0" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" bgcolor="#003300"> <tr> <td width="55" scope="col"><div align="left"><img src="http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/ball_icon.png"'>http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/ball_icon.png" alt="ball" longdesc="ball icon"></div></td> <td bgcolor="#003300"><div style="background-color:#003300;" align="center"> <h2><font color="#FFFF00" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">THE MATCHDAY THREAD</font></h2> <h5><font color="#FFFF00" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Discuss ICT & other games in this thread as they happen </font></h5> </div></td> <td width="55" scope="col"><div align="right"><img src="http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/ball_icon.png"'>http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/ball_icon.png" alt="ball" longdesc="ball icon"></div></td> </tr> </table> <table width="100%" border="0" 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Its a toughie .... I think this thread shows that pretty much all of us are positive about RD's contributions to the team in the past, and feel he could still do a job for us in the future (for another couple of years at least - if not longer). Its kind of weird in a way because I also remember that when Russell was playing regularly, some of the people crying 'foul' about the lack of a contract offer were also the same ones who were coming on moaning about him missing passes or not performing to the level they expected. I guess to a certain extent, the rose tinted glasses have been put on by a few who maybe didnt rate him in the same way as those glasses get worn when discussing any ICT 'legend'. I stated my own personal opinion earlier in the thread and it pretty much mirrors the first paragraph above. However, I am just a fan, and not party to much of what goes on behind the scenes. I dont know what the day to day relationship is between player and manager, although I would imagine that right about now it is not too good (for obvious reasons). I dont know how committed the player is in training and I also dont know if he and Butcher have (or have had) 'words' in the past which is colouring the manager's opinion. All I know is that I agree with others in this thread and that I would rather see him in an ICT shirt than in another SPL shirt next season (and make no mistake, he is still good enough to be in the SPL next year). Reading between the lines of various articles last week, TB definitely seems to be one for developing the youth as he was quite happy for the comment to be made that the average age of the midfield against St Johnstone was under 20. He took a similar approach at Motherwell and it worked there too. Personally, I think the most successful teams have a blend of youth and experience and I am sad that part of that 'experience' next season will not be Russell. I wish Russell all the very best, I hope he finds another SPL team - I am still betting on him going to the Pars - and I definitely think that he is one of those players who will have 'legend' status conferred upon him for all he has done for the cause. I also note that in one of the articles last week he made the time to thank the fans for their support over the duration of his ICT career which was a nice touch. Good luck Russell, and all the very best.

This is the correct forum ..... remember the matchday thread is there to "Discuss this and other games from today in here ...". ITs the one time we do allow and encourage non-ict discussion within an ICT thread .... our version of open all mics .... "open all threads"

the word Dunfermline sprung to my mind as soon as the final whistle blew today ........

Russell Duncan on .... 'to add some bite'

commentator just said he was 'pernickity in the extreme' .... believe thats BBC code for s*** !!!!