TopSix

All ICT need is a bit of class. Someone that bring the fans out and inspire the team to victory.

Like yourself - I wish that it could be that simple !!

I totally don't agree. I think that the huge majorty of fans down by the bridge have turned up expecting a win. Expecting progression. Expecting betterment.

It's not happening at the moment. And people don't know the way to react.

Im not sure if hes captain material but i certainly rate him as a player. Now anyway.

*yawn

Is this programme on the iPlayer Charles?

Sorry T6NY I don't know about that but I would also say that it would not be fair to shoot the messenger - ie yourself. It's the frantic extrapolation of your original post which causes concern. As to the validity of Kenny's question, there is nothing at all wrong about asking it. Stranger scenarios have emerged in Scottish football. However, given that Ross handled the question very well and authoritatively, and said a very definitive "NO", then if people had EITHER:-

* Listened properly OR

* Not having been tuned into the programme had declined to comment for that reason rather than rise to the bait of the next imagined ICT disaster....

Then we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'll take the flak for this next thought on the chin if necesary, but the capacity of at least a faction of ICT fans to talk their club down when even an imagined opportunity arises quite frankly appals and amazes me.

So one then has to ask.... Is there possibly some kind of link between this mindset with its knock on to match days and home form which has been less than inspiring for quite a number of years now?

Take that as a middle of the road question, not a statement from me.

Thanks for the post Charles. Apologies to you if this has created any hassle for you. I've e-mailed the mods to ask for this thread to be closed.

From the thread title I assumed people would like to listen in. I did not set out to create controversy - i.e "Tokely talks about part time football"

I also agree with you about people talking the club down and the negative feeling at matches down at the bridge.

Roll on Ayr tomorrow!

I remember Savage saying that he wanted to "introduce boutique football to showcase other players". I assume that in his eyes, Niculae was just the first in a range of designer labels to be showcased at the Orion Dome.

**** that.

I'd take that over the s**te Sutherlands been brewing up for the last year and a half. Pun intended.

Two evils and i'm not sure which is the lesser.

Personally, i'd rather we were a members club playing in the Third Division than an SPL team providing a platform for wealthy businessmen to promote themselves and increase their power base.

I'm with you on that 1000%. With an emphasis on youth and community involvement.

GET A GRIP FOLKS!!!

It's as simple as this. There was a general discussion on the First Division hosted by Kenny MacIntyre who quite simply threw an off the cuff question to Ross about whether part time football would be in danger of happening at Inverness if they don't go back up this season. Ross VERY FIRMLY rejected this, emphasising that the club had been full time ever since it emerged from the Third Division in 1997. So what we are talking about here is an informed and commonsense response by ICT's most senior player with 492 appearances going back to the days of Telford Street to a question which is simply the kind of thing that interviewers ask in situations like this.

Charles :

Just thinking a little bit more about this.

Don't you think that was a really stupid a question that your BBC colleague, Kenny MacIntyre put to one of the players?

From what you are saying Ross Tokely answered the question, as aptly and as appropiately as he possibly could.

I very much doubt that he, despite the fact that he is ICT's most senior player, could possibly know whether part time football was something that might be under consideration now, or perhaps at some point in the forseeable future?

Had MacIntyre's interview been with the chairman of the club, and maybe the director of football, his question might then have had some relevance.

Firstly let me apologise if this casused concern. When I created this thread to let people know that Ross was on the radio the question he was answering was about the possibility of ICT going part-time.

Ross replied that the club had taken steps to address the financial situation through cuts to the under 19s side and the first team.

Is this programme on the iPlayer Charles?

Hey folks,

if you've got any old consoles / games you want rid of PM me.

Cheers

While i agree that these games provide good opportunities to pick up points, i think we should also be realistic. Take a wee look at Ayr's home record - they've lost just once in five games having beaten Raith and held Dundee and Partick to draws. Given that form, what right do we have to expect a win?

We seem to be a different team away from home.

Been a long time since we won 2 league games in a row, let alone 4.

Next four games on paper are winnable. If we can beat Raith why can't we win the next four?

I'm HOPEFUL of a bit of momentum going in to this game against Ayr especially as we took 3 points against Raith (who are, IMHO, vastly superior to the next four teams we play.

I'm going for

Ayr away - win

Morton home - comfortable win

County away - win (I don't rate them)

Airdrie home - win

12/12. Going to find out the odds on this from the bookies today and stick a few bucks on it.

I think a team should change its formation according to who you're playing - even Man Utd do this. But I also don't think we've got the players for 4-3-3. Who would feed the front players when we've no passing midfielders? Hayes you've got in midfield, when he would be better placed as one of the front three. You also have a sitting front three, rather than (at least) one of them playing wide. If Hayes is to be the wide player then that's 4-2-4, but again top heavy with little width down one side and no passing midfielder.

Have you had a chance to see Hayes playing in the flesh yet Chris? I think he'd maybe be a little wasted as a striker, because one of his great strengths is picking the ball up deep - sometimes in his own half on the counter - and using his pace to beat the holding midfield and defence. If he was played too far forward we might lose some of the impact of that, and it's been our most effective weapon this season, away from home at least.

I like the sound of Jay's team - we need to try to find some formation where Sanchez can pulll the strings in an advanced midfield position.

I too like the sound of Jay's team. Tokely stated last night that Sanchez' English is coming on and talked about his performance in the second half of the Raith game. There have been quite a few posters on here talking about Barrowman coming good (myself included). On the other hand I'm actually hopeful that it's going to be Sanchez who proves to be the best signing by the gaffer.

Tokely is guest on the football programme on BBC Scotland just now.

Talking about ICT going part time!

I think it's more than a little unfair to say the players aren't working.....people might have just concerns over ability, but these guys can only go out there and give their best, and for the most part, for most players, I think that's happening. I certainly don't think they're out there thinking "I can't be ersed, so I'm not going to do any work".

As fans, there's certain limits on what we can do to influence the outcome of a game. I sit hear reading reams of p*sh about how fans are entitled to boo, jeer, criticise...or whatever. In itself, that's not the problem, the problem is that these very same people (often in the same post) will rant about players/manager/club not doing their bit or being good enough, and fail to realise that they have/are becoming as much a part of the problem as all the rest.

Here's a really radical idea.....why don't the fans try getting behind the team a bit more and not be so quick to turn on them. I'm not saying it's fans fault we are where we are, and I'm certainly not saying that the players, manager and club don't have any failings.....far from it. We all like to think our ideas are better, our formations are better, that we could get more from the players or whatever, but the fact of the matter is, we have little or no influence on these things on a day to day, week to week basis. What we can influence is the support we give, and only when we've been standing (sitting) out there week after week screaming until our lungs bleed can we then point the finger at others and say "we're doing all we can, it's time for you to up your game".

Criticism is fine, a bit of venting is acceptable....we all do it, and I think it can be quite healthy. However, some of the mindless crap, slaggings and abuse dished out at players, manager etc is quite disgusting, unmerited and uncalled for.

Hats off to you and fair play for getting behind the team vocally in Kirkcaldy.

Esson

Tokely Bulitis Munro Golly

Hayes Cox Stratford Mcbain

Foran Imrie

How can you possibly drop Proctor, he was by far the best player on the pitch today.

Esson

Tokely Munro Golabek Shinnie

Imrie Proctor Cox Hayes

Foran Barrowman

Subs: Allison, Stratford, McBain, Rooney, Sutherland

Proctor in CM :D

We have better players than Proctor

Strangely enough, I've been wondering this week about how Proctor might play in central midfield. Cox has faded since the start of the season - Duncan was the better player against Raith - and I'd like to see both Sanchez and Imrie in the team. Moving Imrie wide left, putting Hayes wide right and moving Proctor into the middle might work - Prcotor's passing can be a bit dodgy, but he's got a great engine and in periods when we are under pressure he could add an extra line of defence and allow Sanchez to drop deeper and provide the link to Foran and to the wings. I don't see anything laughable about BA's suggestion.

I agree with this post. Sanchez looked good on Tuesday playing a little deeper.

Any space for Barrowman on Saturday though? I think he could be good playing up front as an out and out striker in front of Foran. I still think Barrowman perhaps should be given a chance. (Unless he's not bothering in trainng?)

Christie took ICT to their highest position in the table with 7th (although more points than 6th place due to the split and 40 points above the drop zone) in 2005-06

not to mention a post-split record of 5 wins out of 5 without conceding a single goal - an SPL record that still stands (I believe).

As I see it, Butcher is manager right now and his task is quite simply to get us back up to the SPL. He has a contract that runs to the end of the season and even if we wanted to we could not sack him as he would likely be due some significant compensation that we could ill afford given the Niculae debacle, lower revenues etc etc etc.

Having said that, I do not believe we should seriously be looking to sack him anyway as he should be allowed at least a full season before full judgement is passed. I hear what everyone is saying about this player or that player being lower quality than what we had or need and playing his favourites etc. and whilst I do agree that its frustrating, and gives us all a sense of deja-vu to the "good old days" under CB (sarcasm), I dont buy it that a manager - who is judged on results - would leave out someone he thought could do a better job unless there was a reason. We only see (or hear) the 90 minutes on gameday. we do not see the rest of the week in training, nor do we normally hear of any other things going on in the background in a typical week. I could be wrong, but I would suggest that the management team get a fuller picture than we do over the course of a week.

As far as players are concerned, it would be nice to think that they all live in the same ICT-tinted world that we do and all that has to happen is for us to wave a contract under their nose and they will sign it regardless. Unfortunately, it doesnt work that way. Another thread lists a fair number of players that "would have kept us up" and whilst I agree that quite a few - who may actually have stayed with us - were possibly hounded out by various people, there are just as many who would have moved on regardless of what we offered. We had pretty much the lowest wages in D1 when we were last here, and our SPL wages were the lowest in that division so unless its players like Tokely or Munro who are ICT through and through, they are going to (quite rightly) look to get the best deal they can whether that be at ICT or elsewhere. That gives us no option but to sign players we can afford even if they may be of a lower standard than we would like.

Lets have a bit of a reality check here, realise what and who we are, and maybe we can make progress........ No matter how big we would like to think we are, we are, in reality, a small club playing in a smaller league than we were last year and we have to cut our cloth to suit. I used to hate Charlie saying "a club of our size" but now we are back in the first, that is exactly what we are and until we realise that, we are never going to be happy. We need to get rid of the arrogance, get rid of the sense of entitlement that relegated teams/fans display and get back to the days where hard work and teamwork took us to the SPL and allowed us to "punch above our weight" for so long and that applies equally to the players, the team management, the fans, and the club officials. One thing that has been getting my goat for a while is that we as fans are displaying the same sense of arrogance and entitlement that used to make us hate the fans of the "big" clubs that had come down from the SPL. We are not better than the teams in Div1, we are at the same level. We need to work hard in every game to finish ahead of them.

Getting back to Butcher ..... As I said above, I dont believe we should even consider sacking him, but if we do not reach the SPL - and on current form we will not - then I fully expect TB to walk away citing conflicts with Scotland/TV committments and with him will go quite a few players who are on short term contracts. We will then have a wilderness spell (like Dundee) before we hopefully regain that ICT ethos where hard work and team work made us a good side.

Whether Robbo or Charlie would be that salvation, I dont know. In the event that TB jacked it, either would do for me but neither would get the full backing of 100% of the fans as they have been in the hotseat before so there would be grumbles, but then again, no matter who took the job, that would be the case.

Maybe we can just start winning and this whole debate can be pointless :D

Great post Scott. Hit the nail on the head.

If it doesnt click soon I'll not be back till its fixed.... Season ticket back the works.

Fair play im on strike officially haven't been since miserable defeat to county at start of season.

Aye. I will be joining you. Why should i pay money to get the bus to see that shower of ***** when i could be hitting the Shot Or buying some new Xbox games :D

Good riddance to the both of you. Don't come back.

he actually is tbf. Something TB isnt and hes no good.

Bye bye.

Nope none, except failing to keep ICT up, unprofessional behaviour towards the supporters, bizarre team selections towards the end of last season, refusing to play Esson in the last game cause of his ego, playing boring football, playing far too defensively at home, getting rid of decent younger players (ie - Vigurs) and replacing them with duds (ie - Stratford). Other than that he's been fine.

QUOTE (KingBeastie @ Oct 19 2009, 11:58 PM)

The large majority of teams who have the same management team in place that long tend to reap the benefits.

The difference is they have a decent manager in the first place, and don't stick with duds for the sake of it. They also don't employ a manager who has an awful record.

DC; Renegade:

Fair enough, you don't rate Butcher as a manager; I have doubts myself. But can either of you explain why it would benefit the club more to sack him now, accrue extra debts for the club paying off his and MM's contracts and leave a replacement (probably of equally or more dubious pedigree) to fashion a winning side out of TB's signings, rather than accepting we're going to have a poor season and allowing TB and MM to walk away at the end of the season at no extra cost to the club? And if you can't, don't you think it's potentially counter-productive to be so relentlessly critical of the management team?

I'm not having a go: I've just not been convinced yet by any of the arguments in favour of changing the management team mid-season.

P.S. Apologies for not being able to quote properly from multiple posts in one reply - maybe some kind person less technically inept than me will explain it some day...

I don't think I've called for him to be sacked so far, I just feel that he should never have been given the job in the first place. If I could turn back time, and I was given the choice to take Butcher or not, I wouldn't take him. I was keen on him coming in in the first place, but now looking back I was wrong to think so. His record says it all, it's not even what you'd call mediocre. Five previous sackings, four sackings and the other was a bottom finish in his first season, only saved from relegaton on a technicallity. The way his team is and plays, his ICT team, it's obvious why he has such a poor record. The problem is we sit and tolerate it and don't have the funds to get rid of him no matter how bad is, and we're going to have to sit and bare with it for now.

bizarre team selections

This site needs a "pot...kettle" smiley!

The difference, mine would work.

Big beefs with Mr Butcher from many people. Second half during the Raith game he actually gave a flying fyck and it was clear he wanted to win. I've said all along, if he, from his personal point of view, can't win / hold a decent position in the first division then he should, perhaps, give up on management completely.

Maybe that's his plan?

Year in the big snake then offski?

Who knows.

My view is that the home 'fans' are a miserable shower who are too negative. Personally I'm a fan of Butcher as a man. As a manager, I think he's getting a wee bit of a hard time. We have a small club - granted. But does it need to operate in such a highland league manner? ( And in no way am I dissing the highland league.)

Too many people on here are very quick to offer their opinions.

Are you coaching these players week in, week out? (I was going to offer day in, day out...)

Too many people on here are too quick to blame players and the management. I say lay off with the negativity and look forward to the game against Ayr on Saturday.

I think we're going to pump 'em rotten

I'll be heading down, not sure how yet though.

if you live near a Sainsburys they have got ?15 return deal tokens on the go for anywhere in Scotland.

Just tried calling Ayr United to get ticket prices but there was no answer.

Might as well head down. Anyone know the ticket prices for this one?

15 years ago when the club was just starting out, I think everyone would've been delighted to be where we are just now and what we have achieved with being in the top league for so many seasons.

I know we aren't playing the best and probably won't get promoted but just think on how far we have come for such a small town and club.

Spot on.

Like the ICT board its a joke .

Perhaps Renegade's calling has arrived!

Get yer tickets booked to Fiji

Ok, so the impression is that board members are only about self-promotion and don't really have the interests of our club at heart. I am fed up of the negative posts/threads on here being so self defeatist.

What needs to change in order for us to move forward?

I think ICT has the potential to punch well above our weight.

Adam is getting a hard time from some people for "missing" a one on one with the keeper today. I think this is quite harsh. Rooney is lucky if he's getting 15mins a game at the moment, and from the games I have seen almost every week he is managing to get himself into the position for a one on one with the keeper. On almost every occasion the keeper is required to make a very good save.

How often are our other strikers managing to get shots on target? I feel Rooney will come good, they reckon for every 4 shots on target you should score one. I reckon i've seen Rooney "miss" 4 one on ones recently, so my money would be on him tucking the next one away.

Naaa, don't agree. He's paid money to play football - which is great. He should score all the time at every opportunity. Why you sticking up for him?

Esson

Tokely Bulvitis Munro Golly

Proctor Cox Duncan Hayes

Foran Imrie

I'd go with this but replace Sanchez for Cox

From all of TBs signings Hayes looks the best by a long way. Have to say that Sanchez was pretty damn good on Tuesday.

On the other hand, I think if the club can keep Esson he could be the key to a return to the SPL so on that basis I'm going to pip for him.

Have they really, like really disappeared? I read this post thinking an Argentinian military junta had taken over at the TCS