dougiedanger

Interesting article on this theme:

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/04...ball-to-farce/

SPL Reduce Scottish Football to Farce

Posted on April 11, 2012

By Mike Small

What would it mean for Scottish football and wider Scottish society if a business was allowed to build up massive debts, live well beyond its means, distort the ‘market’ of it’s own league, operate illegal business practices for years and then be let off with a slap on the wrist? It would mean that the SPL is a farce not worth taking part in.

It would mean that the idea of a common code – a leveling agreed practice was made a nonsense of. The games a bogey. Time to do walking away, en mass.

The administrators report to creditors published last week lists the debts, the largest estimated combined amount, more than £93m, is to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC). That’s your school and hospital and your community that doesn’t have income because of tax evation on a scale of grand larceny.

And taxpayer-funded bodies are also directly owed money including: Strathclyde Police (£51,882), Scottish Ambulance Service (£8,438), Culture and Sport Glasgow (£10,338), Glasgow City Council (£7,000), and others.

The report also reveals that Rangers owe more than £2.3m to 12 football clubs in Scotland, England and throughout Europe, including Hearts, Dundee Utd and Dunfermline.

Today we’re told that such behaviour will result in a pathetic sanction. That Rangers could start the next season with a ten point reduction in the SPL. But this completely contradicts past precedent that newco’s have to provide three years accounts.

As Rangers Tax Case has put it:

” I understand (but have not yet verified) that the process for a team that does not fulfill all of its fixtures is that all of its results are voided and it finishes the season on zero points. (or -10 points in Rangers’ case due to the penalty for insolvency). This would relegate Rangers from the SPL. The number of clubs who would likely object to a newco being dropped into the SPL could then start to rise. The chances of the SPL getting bogged down in court proceedings start to increase dramatically. Thus far, the SFA and the SPL have failed miserably to provide leadership in this process. Only recently stirred from their slumbers, they do not appear to have thought any of these processes through. It is vital that these organisations start thinking and listening to expert advice. They must figure out all of the pathways and pitfalls now.”

This is true, but the SPL clubs and fans of all clubs need to make it clear that any attempt to waive the rules and allow Rangers back into the league will humiliate Scottish football.

We’re asking all fans to support the statement: “If Rangers #newco are allowed back to the SPL immediately I will officially stop attending SPL football matches.” Put it on facebook and fans forums and twitter.

There’s an opportunity to remake Scottish football, but if this is allowed to happen, there is no point.

Not sure this is such good news as Celtic winning almost everything for the next few years could kill our game and be very boring!

Smaller clubs should see this as an opportunity. Those who are the most innovative and who can seize the opportunity will thrive.

Looks like Mr Whyte might have to do without any further Scottish Cup cash too. :(

In many cases you're right but I don't think looking back to the Eighties is the right model. There are plenty of young Scots coming through. However, back then, no-one would have swapped Hibs for Rochdale. Now, look at McGuire, Allan, Goodwillie etc. All content to sit on the bench at some club, earning a few pennies, rather than staying and competing for Europe and titles. Dundee United would never have held on to Sturrock, Narey, Hegarty, Bannon, McInally, Bowman, McAlpine etc etc these days.

If Rangers collapsing (in reality, docked ten points and called Glasgow Rangers FC or some such) meant Celtic couldn't outspend everyone else, I'd be all in favour. However, without major surgery, Celtic would still have a budget that dwarves every other team. Looking to the 90s with Rangers winning everything, might be a more realistic comparison.

Some good points, though I don't think the 90s comparison quite works either, as that was a time of unprecedented spending in the Scottish game, and not only among the OF. No one has that kind of money to throw about, including Celtic, who are priced out of virtually any big-name players, and who seem to be buying promising younger ones to sell on later.

The truth is that any new era would offer challenges and opportunities that have not been seen in any previous period, and that the clubs most likely to prosper will be those most able to see and exploit the opportunities that the future will hold.

If RFC dont take action very soon and call in the administrators they could find themselves in a similar position to Portsmouth who are facing a winding up order. If HMRC decide to persue this route and its granted then the company would cease trading and effectively be wound up.

Its hard to predict the future of football in Scotland without either of the OF. Without the competition of those two would the TV companies and major sponsors of the league pull out? Its easy to think that, maybe, the competition would be better with all teams having the chance of top positions but would we then become a similar standard to League of Ireland with very little TV coverage and little money to share around? Would the lower standard drive more fans away?

Love them or hate them I feel both halves of the OF are a necessary evil in Scottish football.

We have complained for years about the stranglehold the OF have on the Scottish game, and we know that the status quo does not work for anyone.

So, there seems little point in clinging to the old simply through the fear of the unknown.

In fact, it is not so unknown, as in the 80s there was proper competition, when RFC were weak. I think most of us would relish the return of that kind of competitive environment, even if we attract less sponsorship money. Young players would come through as they did in the past and as a nation we would find our proper place in the footbal hierarchy.

The Irish comparison does not really work either, as they have no real history of competitive football leagues, while we do. The reinvention of our league should be our priority, not the retention of a failed model that is strangling the game.

Scottish Football is terminally ill...even without the whole Rangers thing.

The best thing that could happen is it being administered a lethal injection. There's still some hope of rebuilding it, and rebuilding it for the better...but the longer it drags on in it's current state the more that hopes fade along with the will of the fans who will ultimately be the ones who are still around to pick up the pieces.

Rangers administration could be that lethal injection, but only if the rest have the balls and the long term vision to see beyond the short term pain.

Unfortunately I fear the rest do not have the balls and despite what they may say publicly, they will be scrambling like mad men behind the scenes to not only keep Rangers in the SPL, but keep them competitive with Celtic.

Tend to agree with this. What is the point in tyring to maintain a status quo that is detrimental to the game as a whole, and which has run its course?

Let any club that has unsustainable practices take the natural punishment for them, and allow clubs time to find their feet and for the game to reorganize itsef in a way that benefits as many clubs as possible.

The worst thing that could happen would be to prop up any club that cannot run its affairs properly. We have had enough of a set-up that has all but killed the game.

All clubs should look to the post-OF future and consider the ways in which it could bring a rebirth for the game.

A lot of talk in the papers and online about the severe problems at Ibrox, even some prospect of them going down the tubes completely.

A lot of the media people seem to think automatically that this would be "a bad thing" for the game in Scotland, though some might say such a shift in power would let other teams into the frame and perhaps spark a revival in the game overall.

Where do you think ICT as a club and as supporters would stand on this issue, in particular, would the club vote to keep RFC in the SPL if it came down to that?

Or is this a chance to end the OF stranglehold on the game?

Something that always puzzled me: how was it that after selling two prime sites in the centre of town the club ended up with a half-built stadium at the dump?

And did no one think of the potential problem of the gas pipe when deciding on the stadium site?

Football is virtually dead with this bill, it's like going for a night at the opera FFS.

Apparently, to make ends meet he is doing some painting and decorating.

Different kind of plastered I suppose.

IAN BLACK is working as a part-time painter and decorator as the Hearts wage row bites.

The Tynecastle players have been hit hard with no sign of their pay packets for the last two months.

And the midfielder is struggling to make ends meet so much he was out helping a tradesman pal in Edinburgh on Monday to make some extra cash.

SunSport can reveal Black's feeling the pinch ahead of Christmas as he struggles to buy presents for his eight-year-old daughter.

A source told us: "Because the players are not getting paid, it got to the stage where Ian's now started working for his mate.

"He owns a painting and decorating business and Ian was out doing hard graft on Monday on his day off.

"He is looking at the possibility of working twice a week for him in the run up to Christmas.

"He said to the gaffer last week he might have to work on a Monday and Tuesday because he has to put food on the table for his kid.

"He has got an eight-year-old daughter and needs money to go out and buy Christmas presents as well as put food on the table."

The players have had one ?1,000 payment but the rest is nowhere to be seen and their December wages are due to be paid on Friday.

But our source added: "We are not expecting to get paid on Friday at all."

Players are suffering in the pocket and SunSport understands some players can't pay their bills.

Our source, who is a first-team regular, said: "I am having to avoid my bills and I have constantly been getting reminders.

"I have a mortgage as well but I have spoken to the lenders and they are not too bad with me about it just now."

First song: can't call huns huns any more, I am afraid, as that is dead sectarian, and huns don't like it.

Only 70 years or so behind L.A..

Looking at the Goggle map, you get a sense of how well laid out Dalneigh was, with crescents, green spaces, shops, big gardeens, and plenty of living space.

It tells a story: that of the post-war feeling that working people should have a decent home and standard of living, which contrasts with today's serious lack of public housing and the over-priced boxes that people are expected to live in.

I recall too that the houses were quite spacious inside. It must have been a dream for people to move from tenements and the like to the greenery and space of Dalneigh.

Absolutely Dougie. I think this was very much the post war philosophy which also embraced the likes of Garden Cities. Certainly the house we lived in on St Andrew Drive had a pretty big garden, bigger than average for Dalneigh I suppose, with a back lawn which itself was 10 yards long and then there was a vegetable patch before you reached the back wall of the St Ninian garages. And that was just half the garden. There was another chunk parallel to that which was like a wee croft running down to the minister's hedge!

The Swedish houses are all 3 bedrooms and all identical to or mirror images of each other. The bedrooms were pretty large, especially the "master" bedroom at the back and the one above the livingroom also had a fireplace. The other rooms were big too and there was lots of cupboard space.

In fact I was just today relating a tale of a previous era when the large collection of fireworks which - aged 10 - I had bought used to be stashed in the cupboard beneath the stairs! (Aye... the "lobbing bangers into front porches" craze culminated one year in one headcase putting a Roman Candle in Mrs Anderson the P5 teacher's front hedge!)

Other friends of mine (such as Beys and Kavvies for those who remember Inverness and Caley football of a bygone era) lived in stone houses on St Valery Ave and St Fergus Drive and these were pretty big too. The "electric flats" were maybe a bit different.

The streets were also quite wide - especially the bit of St Andrew I was on which had the transformer.

I remember the Swedish houses well, especially the "master" bedroom at the back, it seemed massive. The top of the stairs was also very spacious as I recall. Pretty cold upstairs though with no central heating, though I do remember the fireplace in the bedroom at the front. What I like too is the close proximity to the private houses that surround the scheme, so that you don't get the feeling of being isolated or in a ghetto. Very democratic again.

I guess Bruce Avenue and the like would have been built in the late 60s/early 70s?

Looking at the Goggle map, you get a sense of how well laid out Dalneigh was, with crescents, green spaces, shops, big gardeens, and plenty of living space.

It tells a story: that of the post-war feeling that working people should have a decent home and standard of living, which contrasts with today's serious lack of public housing and the over-priced boxes that people are expected to live in.

I recall too that the houses were quite spacious inside. It must have been a dream for people to move from tenements and the like to the greenery and space of Dalneigh.

Because that's where the creme de la creme of Dalneigh were to be domiciled and they wanted a sweeping boulevard to remind them of their vacations down the Champs Elysees.

quality patter

Seems like Section E is not living up to the atmosphere previously in Section G. I kept my seat in Section G and miss the boys - never ever told anyone to sit down there, so, why don't you all petition to come back?

And, old sourpuss Dougal, the Supporters Club were not baking cakes at Forres - it was a very special Harry Gow Birthday cake for Kath's birthday - so boo to you........jealous old so and so. Obviously you don't know how to celebrate birthdays with friends.

Quite right girls. Great to have women fans nowadays. They add so much that was lacking before. Maybe the club should have a nail painting concession installed by the pie stand, in fact make the pie stand a cup cake joint or some such. Also, sales of work could be a real moneyspinner.

So Lennon and several other high profile Celtic supporters are sent bullets and put in fear of their lives by death threats that beyond any reasonable doubt come from supporters of another football club, and then Lennon himself is subject to a disgraceful show of hatred at Tynecastle, and yet the "real danger" in the whole thing comes from those nasty "Celtic fans," who to my knowledge have not retaliated to the very real anti-Celtic (and no doubt anti-Catholic) intimidation that characterised last season's Scottish football.

This whole episode was a disgrace to Scottish football and the whole nation. Even the Sunday Post condemned it at the weekend!

The real issue here and probably the "real danger" lies in the blind denial that there are sectarian issues at play in all of this, and in the implicit idea that somehow Lennon, Celtic, and their fans deserve it, that "they bring it on themselves."

After all, they are not "the people".

Dougie, I refer you to my previous answer regarding Souness. Souness and his band of brothers were universally despised in the same way as Lennon was last season.

Those you refer to as 'the people' are widely despised, mainly because of their triumphalism and arrogance, but they would not have ascribed sectarian motives to this, neither now, nor back in the days of Souness.

The other lot (or 'not the people' as they could perhaps be called in a reference to a once famous fanzine ) seem to have a problem separating sectarian motives from other motives.

And no, I'm not excusing the actions of a handful of lunatics who see fit to send bullets or attack Lennon in the street. Thankfully, to most of us it is just a game.

I do see what you are saying and respect your point of view, but it seems to suggest the old idea that one lot is as bad as the other, when it appears more complicated than that. One is not simply the flip side of the other.

Souness & co may have been unpopular, but they never received bullets or bombs.

I agree absolutely that it is only a game, and that is how it should be.

I agree with almost everything you said except "the very real anti-Celtic (and no doubt anti-Catholic) intimidation that characterised last season's Scottish football"

I was very much anti-Celtic last year but absolutely not anti-Catholic. Their gamesmanship that led to a referee's strike and constant whining that their multi-million assembled squad was being harshly treated smacked of the Machiavellian hand of John Reid. Under Tommy Burns I loved to watch Celtic. So Celtic did bring contempt upon themselves but they didn't bring what was, IMO, a blatant assault and death threats. I think it's important to make it clear they can be separate things. Booing Lennon and wanting Celtic to lose isn't necessarily sectarian.

BTW, if you simply meant the death threats and assault, then I fully concur.

Yes, thanks, that's what I meant.

We can all dislike Celtic or any team for the reasons you suggest, and it certainly does not make us sectarian to do so.

Nor does it implicate us in sectarianism if we admit there is a sectarian problem in our country. To constantly deny its existence however is to perpetuate the problem (not meaning you obviously).

Bottom line....the CPS thought they had a stick on case to put someone away for a sectarian related crime. They got caught up in the media frenzy (which had him pinned as guilty of being a bigot before the evidence was ever heard)...thought "hey, we could make an example of someone here and really stamp home our authority and show we are serious about tackling the issues".

Unfortunately, they didn't have the evidence to support the charges. The court process WORKED AS IT SHOULD. We can argue the rights and wrongs of no Assault Charge being upheld, but it would have been an even bigger injustice to have found him guilty of acting with racial/religious hatred without sufficient evidence.

The real danger now is that those on the Jury become victims of the, well publicised over the years, abuse that we know some Celtic fans* are capable of dishing out to people who do or say things they don't like.

(* Fans of other clubs have also been guilty of such things, but we are talking about a Celtic related incident here)

So Lennon and several other high profile Celtic supporters are sent bullets and put in fear of their lives by death threats that beyond any reasonable doubt come from supporters of another football club, and then Lennon himself is subject to a disgraceful show of hatred at Tynecastle, and yet the "real danger" in the whole thing comes from those nasty "Celtic fans," who to my knowledge have not retaliated to the very real anti-Celtic (and no doubt anti-Catholic) intimidation that characterised last season's Scottish football.

This whole episode was a disgrace to Scottish football and the whole nation. Even the Sunday Post condemned it at the weekend!

The real issue here and probably the "real danger" lies in the blind denial that there are sectarian issues at play in all of this, and in the implicit idea that somehow Lennon, Celtic, and their fans deserve it, that "they bring it on themselves."

After all, they are not "the people".

In my opinion "Against all odds" always seemed a strange title to me, more fitting would have been "Pro-merger Propaganda"

Again IMO a very one sided view of the merger written by a self-confessed pro-merger author, wouldn't it have been great had the Caley and Thistle fanzine guys got together to give their sides of the story, at least then we could have both sides to mull over???

Anyway I'm off to download the new chapter lets hope theres not too many spelling mistakes

dougal

Actually a decent point and I am sure Mr Bannerman would be confident enough to stand his version against conflicting viewpoints. Or maybe the "refuseniks" should go ahead and write their version.

If only there were one who visited this site...

Not really wanting to get into all this again, but the Hearts security official, a former police officer, testified that he heard the assailant call Lennon a "Fenian b**tard."

Not sure of that is sectarian enough for the jury or indeed for some on here, but as Scotty says, seen from the outside, the whole episode must paint Scotland in a very poor light.

Out of interest, how does someone become the chairman of ICT? Is it simply who puts the most money into he pot? or are there other factors considered?

It seems that Fraser & Savage have their business ties. But do succesfull businessmen make for good chairmans? Certainly Murray provided the goods at Rangers!

I know, the Gers do get lucky with their chairmen. Murray leaves after a glorious reign and next minute they have another billionaire on board, wealth off the scale, lives in a castle, everything.

It never ceases to amaze me how dougal comes on, starts a thread full of negativity then f's off again. One day he'll stay and actually argue his point.

To be fair, that first post was so full of genuine 'rage' that he is probably still seething after the result.

It was real 'crush a grape' stuff.

Hats off dougal, you always reel them in.