DoofersDad

Nah, you really dont understand me at all, even though you are right in what you are saying.

And I expected a gubbing because Motherwell are on an unbeaten streak since the start of the season and are obviously on form AND, well, i was there to witness the absolutely dire performance at Airdrie on saturday. Put these two expectactions together = drubbing.

It was NOT because i feel the team are worse than ever. I would not go to games to support them if i thought this! Always have been ICT and always will be.

I agree, I really don't understand you at all. That's because you are contradicting yourself. I took issue with you because you were agreeing with Absent Friend who came on with some nonesense about some of us having unrealistic expectations for the season. You then say I was right in what I was saying.

Of course we were all expecting Motherwell would give us a humping given the way we've been playing but my point was that if TB was doing the job he's been paid to do, we would not have gone into the match with such low expectations.

You then say you would not go to games to support the team if you thought the team were worse than ever and go on to say you always have been ICT and always will be. If you always will be ICT then you'll watch them and support them however bad they play.

I think we probably agree. We had low expectations for the match against Motherwell because of respective recent form, but high expectations of what the team should acheive by the end of the season because of the stated ambition of the board. And of course we will go to ICT games even if the team is the worst ever - just maybe not quite so often.

I know what AF is meaning. I went there last night expecting a humping from a Motherwell team unbeaten this season. We went there and held them to a 2-2 draw over 90 mins, with them playing against 10 men for 20 of those.

We went there and got a draw, where we expected to be taken out, so its better than that happening, therefore not a bad result and a good performance to boot.

Good to see the highlights.

As others have said. A loss is not a good result. It might have been a good performance but it was not a good result.

And why were you expecting a humping? There seem to be too many people who take the view that now we are in the SFL we have to expect mediocrity and its par for the course to be given a gubbing by the likes of Motherwell. I don't buy that and neither should anybody else. Remember, when the board took TB and MM on it was with a clear mission. Whilst the Board seemed to resigned to relegation the clear remit for TB was to bounce straight back should we go down. To bounce straight back up requires us to have a better team than the one that went down.

Last season we would have expected a tight game against Motherwell and it is reasonable to expect one this season. What is not reasonable to expect is that we be taken to penalties by Montrose, draw against the likes of Airdree and get beaten convincingly at home by County. Had we had results like that last season we would have been a laughing stock. We may only have lost 2 matches this season, but had we still been in the premier division and playing as we are we would be lucky to have secured a single point.

I appreciate it is early days yet and the team will get better, but then so will others. Given that TB's remit is to get us straight back to the SPL it is not negative to say that early indications are worrying. We look as though we are going to be a mid table side at the moment and that is not what TB and MM are being paid shed loads to deliver. I hope I'm wrong and perhaps a convincing win against Patrick Gristle on Saturday will give me cause for a bit more optimism.

Is it just me or is it mainly the boys Butcher brought in that canna control a ball?

No. It isn't just you.

quote]

I'm worried.

Wouldnt have Rossco anywhere near central defence... he cost us big time.

I wonder when Tel will realise its been too many changes, and how long can we wait to see if the players he brought in 'gell'.

Put Roscoe up front. We might score some goals then. After all, he has scored more goals for ICT than any other player in the squad and has a better strike rate than Barrowman. He'd probably get booked less often too.

today the control was pretty poor. at one point in the second half for about 5mins the team could not get the ball under control, poor touches stray passes etc. surely this is basic stuff worked on in training?

This is basic stuff. It's not what they should be working on in training as they should already have these basic skills if they are playing at this level. The worrying thing is that TB has brought players in who don't appear to have these basic skills and if they don't have them now, they never will. I'm worried.

Where will it all end? Technology for deciding whether someone is off side or if it is a foul or who the ball came off for a throw in? Just keep it simple, keep the game flowing and keep all the contoversial decisions. It gives us something to talk about and an excuse for when we lose.

Are there any car parks in Airdree?

Is it just me do most of the ICT team are completely unable to control the ball? Most of them, when the ball comes to them, it just pings often and they seem to be unable to trap it and control it at all. A couple know and have known how to do it. Barry Robson could do it, Black could do it and from the current line up, Cox seems pretty capable of controlling it pretty well. The rest seem know hee haw about what to do. It's about time they started practicing this at training. Discuss.

And u think shipping in some Fijians/Samoans/(watever crazy idea it was) would have better ball control than the current crop? <_<

Tim Cahill has excellent ball control.

I wasn't aware we'd signed him.

There isn't the tradition of big time football in the Highlands and it takes years to establish. Look down south and you see teams like Bolton and Blackburn regularly pulling in 20,000 even though they are close to the big Manchester and Liverpool clubs and have populations of only, I guess twice that of Inverness, if that. That tradition was built up when there were fewer things to spend money on and it was what the working man did every Saturday.

If crowds are going to increase there probably needs to be a significant decrease in gate prices and more entertaining football. We don't necessarily need more people going to watch the team, we need those who do go to sometimes to go more often.

His actions were totally inexcusable but don't you just wish we had someone who could cover the length of the pitch that quick.

The team should go on a 3 hour coach journey before each home game.

And the boo boys should go on a 3 hour coach trip during the game.

Worse the Voghts! Then he must be sh*te. But at least there seems to be improvement with Burley whereas Voghts inherited an OK set up and then made it worse

The real problem for Scotland is the lack of quality players. Is there anyone in the current Scotland team who would get into team GB? I think not.

Given the pretty average players at his disposal, Burley has done a not bad job. The excellent perfomances in the last 2 games suggest he is capable of getting the best out of mediocrity. The one class act in Scotland is Boyd as his scoring record for Rangers proves. I am sure if he had been playing, Scotland would have qualified for South Africa. Of course, Burley must take some of the blame for that and maybe his future will be decided on his failure to control his best players.

But the real problem for Scotland is the lack of top quality young players coming through. Extend the school day by 2 hours and devote it to football is my answer. Training for an hour in the morning and a game in the afternoon. It's about time the education system got its priorities right.

A more positve game plan from TB, more willingness to shoot from the players and more willingness to support the team from the fans.

Is it any wonder the players don't have the confidence to be positive when some sections of the club's supposed support groans and even boos them when it goes wrong. Better to have 3 shots landing in the car park and one in the back of the net than no shots at all. Lets applaud a positive attitude and encourage them to try again rather than boo a poor bit of play.

Maybe those who boo'd Lionel can buy a ticket for the other end of the ground next home match and cheer for Partick - that won't have such a negative effect on our players because it won't be obvious that some of our own so called support is actually helping the opposition.

Anyone else excited about seeing what Odihambo can offer in this division? I think he looked really promising when he started at Tannadice last season, and he was one of the few threats when he came on against Falkirk on relegation Saturday. Someone with pace and skill up front could really make the difference for us this season if Terry perseveres with the passing game and the midfield gains a bit more solidity.

Very excited. I think Foran and Odhiambo has a good ring to it - like Wyness and Ritchie, or Stewart and McLean......

Me too. I don't know that I'm convinced with Foran but I think Imrie and Odhiambo have the potential to pull defences all over the place and that should create space and opportunity for Rooney (preferably) or Barrowman to start getting on the scoresheet regularly. Once they start scoring and get their confidence going they will score more.

To get back to the subject of the thread, yes I do think England look the business. They have often suffered in the past due to lack of depth in the squad and the failure to score as much as they should. They have also played too cautiously.

They may still be a bit vulnerable at the back but they look very strong in front of that. With Barry, Lampard and Gerrard they have got players of real quality and presence, all of whom can get forward and score. Lennon, Wright-Philips and Young are all players who can torment a defence whilst Rooney, Heskey, Crouch and Defoe can all score and are very different strikers offering different options for various circumstances. In Capello, they have a manager who is tactically sound, makes sure his players know what is expected of them and who adopts a positive attitude. Perhaps they are not the best in the world at the moment but they are up there and can win it on their day.

Football fans will want the World Cup to be all about great football and if their own team has not reached a particular stage will want to see the teams who are playing the most exciting football progress into the next stages. If England are one of the teams playing the best football, as they may well be, then support them and hope for more great football in the next game.

All the silly people out there should understand that the World Cup is the greatest football competition in the world and should be a celebration and festival of all that is good in the game. Instead of supporting your own moronic prejudices, how about supporting football?

Will Golly be able to play? Is he cup tied or does the deal with County have a clause which stops him playing against them?

Man of the match goes to whoever took the video. Top stuff.

3rd save by Esson stopped what was a welll struck penalty. I think he moved before the Partick player started his run up but if the ref saw nothing wrong with it, that's good enough for me.

Quite a few contenders here

Makes Roscoe look like a pussycat.

Whilst it can be compelling watching these, the sad thing is that many of these tackles were or could have been career ending events for the victims. Sometimes, as with Germany's Schumacher, the perpetrators get away with not being sent off or even booked. Whilst we want players to show passion and be committed (and sadly this sometimes results in serious injury) we need the authorities to be really hard on those who cross the line and go in with clear malicious intent.

Don't know if anyone else noticed this but I seemed to think that Lionel didn't seem to be himself last week, I wonder if he was still bothered by that arm injury he picked up against Albion.

No. It was his feet that were the problem.

More intelligent than some at least.

Firstly, Robert congratulations on a well constructed considered first post.

I do have one point to ask about it though, what exactly does the fair amount of experience that our present manager has look like? When you see it in black and white? Have you considered this? His experiences mostly include bottom of the table or thereabouts. He had 3 seasons in the SPL where he got Motherwell into 6th or 8th place and one where they finished 12th. Latterly he has become a career loser.

I refuse to believe that our fate was determined by our players alone last season, Brewster fecked up, yes but Butcher also fecked up with dubious selections. Take a look at the squad now and the squad we had last year, who has gone and who came in. Then ask yourself if you believe we are better placed now to challenge for promotion as was publically touted by the club (bounce) or for rebuilding a squad for life in the First Division (I believe this is where Butcher thinks we belong).

My apologies for such a negative post, I said before Brewster was sacked that I believed we'd be relegated. When relegated I said that we'd struggle in the First Division where other posters were talking about bouncing back up. I'm just not feeling very positive about the way things are at the moment and ultimately it comes down to a small group of people.

The muppets.

Well...my name's not actually Robert...it's Chris!

I understand what you are saying about Butcher's career stats - he has not been particularly successful at numerous clubs...although interestingly enough with a little research I have found in his 26 games in charge of Caley spanning from and including the 0-0 draw against Celtic he has won 10 drawn 8 and lost 8. More of a winner then for us!

As far as the squad goes - of course it's down to everyone: the players, board, managers, etc, etc whether we were to get relegated last season...and of course Butcher has to be partly responsible for that too...but we needed a change at the time and it's very, very easy for us to sit a theorise who would have been better now that we are actually in the first division, or even which decisions to make after the game has ended!

Incidentally, we also lost a couple of players because they wanted to go (Morais, Black, Kerr), and despite cutting our trading losses from ?432K to ?113K last year (in spite of the recession), that is still a loss. Not only that but a loss at a club which has mostly lead by example in Scotland in how to be successful on a tight budget. Our playing staff was never going to be as good as we wanted it to be this year. It's hard enough to keep players if you're relegated let alone bring new, quality ones in. Besides, I'm fast becoming a fan of a couple of the new players (Hayes particularly).

Thing is, we did get relegated and for now we do belong in the first division and there is a good chance we will struggle (apologies for all the italics!). Hard as all that is to take we have to accept it and be patient. We have - in the lower divisions - had some fair success in the past and when that didn't transpire in the SPL a lot of us became pretty negative (as did the football in the last couple of seasons). Personally, I choose not to be that way, even if I do get pissed off sometimes (last Saturday for example. Lost my voice shouting). We've a long season ahead of us and we're gonna be stuck with who we have for a while yet. Butcher still has my support. Look on the bright side: We've a chance to win the Challenge Cup again!

Are you sure your name's not Terry?

Far too early to make comparissons just yet. He is rebuilding the team so let's see what the results are like by the end of December. Then compare his results with other Division 1 managers. I don't like what I'm seeing at the moment of the way he is going about things but I hope I am proved wrong.

I think Rooney has promise. It's all about confidence with strikers and he can't have much if he doesn't start even when Imrie, Barrowman and Odhiambo are all out injured. What's that all about?Yes, he has missed some one on ones when he should have done better but at least he has got himself into these positions. When he is on the park he always looks likely to score. When Barrowman is on you just hope the defence plays well so we can scrape a goalless draw. Barrowman has had a good run in the team and has scored only 2. Tokely has a better strike rate than him with Munro not far behind! Rooney should be told he is getting a prolonged run in the starting line up.

I think various combinations of Rooney, Imrie, Odhiambo and Foran could do pretty well for us and could lift some of the current gloom. No doubt TB will carefully assess his options when players are fit and play Barrowman as a lone striker.

Butcher's given too many players the chop and what's left is mince.