Scotty

we are not a featured game, and as far as I know we have no tweeters at Cappielow .... welcome to what we international fans call "our normal misery" !!!

County 0-1 down

.style2 {text-align: center;}.style3 {border-collapse: collapse;border-style: solid;border-width: 1px;}.style6 {border: 1px solid #FFFF99;text-align: center;}.style8 {text-align: center;border-style: solid;border-width: 0;} Morton -V- Inverness CT Cappielow Park, Greenock 3:00 PM ...follow us on Twitter @ http://twitter.com/ICTOnline or on Main Site Front Page ...discuss it during the game in the CHATROOM AUDIO COVERAGE MFR (UK or VPN Only) BBC Open All Mics (worldwide) LIVE SCORES / TEXT SKY BBC SportBox TEAM LINEUPS AFTER MATCH HT Report FT Report Match Stats

Dennis Wyness (243), Bobby Mann (214), Mark Brown (203), Stuart McCaffrey (198), Barry Robson (167), Iain Stewart (144), Ian Black (144), Paul Sheerin (142), Darren Dods (112), Paul Cherry (104) .... just 10 non-local players who have made more than 1600 appearances for the club between them. Hell, I didnt even include Huntly boy Ross Tokely who would have taken that total up to 2000+ appearances. Did/Do any of these lack a will to win for ICT because they were/are not local ? I dont think so. As for managers/coaching staff ... remind me how local Sergei Baltacha, Steve Paterson, John Robertson and Craig Brewster were ? Only Charlie could realistically be described as a local and although Robbo is now a strong advocate of Inverness and the Highlands you could not really have described him as a "local" when he first arrived. All in all it is a severely insular attitude to think we could have been as succesful as we have been with only "local" talent .... also, what exactly is local ? Is it Inverness, does it extend to Nairn, Elgin, Dingwall, Dornoch, Wick, Aviemore, Perth ... where do you draw the line in defining that ? Yes, I was disappointed by the County result, yes I said it was a passionless performance, and yes I bemoaned the fact later in the pub that many of these players didnt know what it was about or how much it meant to the fans but it doesnt automatically follow that a team full of Invernessians who hadnt played in this fixture before would have fared any better. Point 1: Agree. Hopefully it was just a blip but dont want to see or hear too many like that over the season. Point 2: Agree to an extent. I would be happy for him to see out his contract until the end of the season as that is the least amount of time we should give him to mould/shape his team. However, if he is doing well and we are challenging for promotion, even if we ultimately dont quite get there, I would be happy for him to be offered another deal to stay longer. I do agree though that another contract will be hugely affected by the money on offer or what we can afford. Point 3: The simple fact is that we did improve when Butcher arrived. Call it the new manager bounce if you like, but I honestly believe that under CB we would have been relegated many weeks earlier. I have no axe to grind with Craig Brewster the person, and certainly not CB the player, but CB the manager was an abject failure at ICT. TB must take some level of blame for not keeping us up but we would not have been going into the last game of the season needing only a point if CB was in charge. Point 4: Agree Point 5: A manager stands or falls on his decisions and I cant say I have ever seen too many of them hold their hands up on a regular basis and say they made a mess of things ..... Their judgement comes when they get lauded as great or handed their P45s. I am disappointed he didnt keep us up and as I have consistently said, he must take some of the blame for last season, but the vast majority of the damage in terms of results and off-field morale was done long before he arrived. I would agree that the two things you highlighted do seem poor decisions and quite possibly contributed to our relegation but there were hundreds if not thousands of other decisions taken over the course of last season by players and managers alike that also contributed to it ...

He finished 12th in the season they had to make most of their squad redundant and in the following season, on an almost zero budget, and working mostly with youngsters did what under the circumstances seems miraculous to get a top 6 finish. Yes his (individual) record apart from Motherwell makes grim reading and so for that matter does the record of his #2 ...... but together they seem to make a good team (as they did at Motherwell) ..... I still believe in Butcher and think it is ludicrous that there are calls for his head at this stage. Get a feckin grip !!! He took over a team in freefall under Brewster, turned it around and almost kept us up .... 2 more goals over the whole season or one more draw or victory and we would have remained in the SPL. It is not TB's fault we went down any more than it is Rossco's fault because of his red card V Falkirk, or Barrowman or Rooney's fault for every goal chance they missed, or Fraser or Esson's fault for every goal conceded (you get the idea) ..... bottom line is that its a team game and everyone is a little bit to blame and should take some of it. Did Butcher get everything right after taking over - NO, but when he came in did we look like we would only go down on goal difference ??? We just have to suck it up and try to win the hardest division whilst avoiding the trap of getting so arrogant (as fans or a team) that we dont remember that there have always been decent sides in that division. As much as I dint enjoy the County match, it did look like there is something about a few of the new signings and listening to the Partick game the commentators were highlighting that too ..... perhaps we are being too impatient ... they seem to be starting to gel with each other now (a problem we predicted Dundee would have with all their new and expensive signings - not sure why our new signings would have been immune). TB will do for me

pretty much agree with all of that - that was my first thought too when I heard the release / signing info.

given that there is a month between our game and the final games in the other groups I am guessing that we will squeak a win against Holland, wait our month, then be disappointed on the final day as every single result that needed to go our way turns in the opposite direction ..... its the Scottish way :cute01:

In other words, "its not important ... we will get round to it" .... quite scaringly amateur !

I didnt hear him getting abuse - not from the top end of the tunnel at least - but I concede that it was entirely possible from lower down or from other sections of the ground as he ran off the pitch. I personally was not booing nor making any negative comments towards the players, I would not do that ... I just didnt applaud the team off the park. I would have applauded (whether we won or lost) if I thought they had merited it. I dont think swearing at the fans was correct, nor was it "captainly" but I am not going to get my boxers in a knot over it, nor go on a witch hunt over a single incident, as it does at least show that he was hurting over the defeat. As I mentioned in the other thread, I actually thought he personally had done reasonably well in his own performance, but others around him had let us down. However, it is the captain's responsibility to pull us up, provide leadership and gee the players up to get a result. Bobby Mann could do that, Darren Dods could do that and if you want to go to another degree, I think it was Billy McNeill that once attributed Roy Aitken with almost single handedly winning Celtic a title by doing that - I think it was their centenary season when Celtic were renowned for scoring late winners and an interview I saw at the time with a couple of players said they were scared not to win as all they could hear in the dying minutes was Aitken roaring and growling at them from defence ... a little bit of that steel in our captain would not go amiss .... heck, our manager was also an inspirational captain in his day and could surely impart some words of wisdom. indeed.

WTF !!! Online commentary just got replaced with "thank you for listening to online bbc events .... unfortunately there are no events right now" ... I cant really send them a nasty email as its UK only :tonguecheek:

In a disciplinary sense, perhaps not, but I cant see Rosscoe not getting fired up if we went behind and I would say the same about Russell. The honest answer - and it has been said by many over the last couple of years - is that we have not had a natural leader since the days of Dods or Mann.

Its simple really, he did not play a captains role last week as far as I am concerned and this has been echoed in other games. He was one of the few players on the park who should know what a derby is about and I saw nothing from him. He played well enough himself but there was no leadership, no cajoling, no taking the game by the scruff of the neck when we went behind. The cherry on top of the cake for me was that he swore at the fans as he came off the park at the end of the game and despite the fact that he may have been provoked by jibes coming from the stands that is just not professional. His manager appologised for the rotten performance, the captain on the other hands wants to tell those same fans to **** off. sorry, not captain material.

Im not too sure. I reckon it would still be munro I would support a change of captain (as discussed with a few people in the Innes last week who know my reasons for losing faith/respect in our current captain) but not sure Golly should be handed it as he has only just come back to the club and is likely to be a short-term player. Tokes or Russell Duncan for me or even Esson.

for the avoidance of any and all doubt, please be aware that any further comments relating to a pending court case will be deleted. not only is it dodgy legal ground to talk about it but it is also against our site policy regarding personal/private lives of ICT players (including ex-players)

Prior to our win, the last time we were in the final (V Alloa) it was played at the Shyberry so I would presume it would be played at the "most logical" ground.

please dont equate my comments to mean I am anti-Butcher. As I said, it was one of the most gutless and passionless games I have ever witnessed, but I have also witnessed this type of performance under EVERY other manager we have had. I said it last season (and I said the same thing about Brewster) we have to give him a full season to see if he can do it, and we have to accept there will be setbacks or bad results along the way .... and whether you are a "moaning bugger" or a so-called "happy clapper" there will always be a need for somewhere that fans can vent their frustrations at those bad results. Butcher definitely has to take some of the blame for this result as he is supposed to prepare the side mentally and physically for the game but equally so do the players as they are the ones who have to perform and follow the manager's gameplan. today - v PTFC - we seem to be doing really well and the commentators are waxing lyrical about several players we have derided over the last few games ..... so last week is hopefully a single game blip in the general scheme of things.

Golly Galloping down the wing !!!! a long time since any of our left back workhorses have ever galloped :021:

They were all crap last week ..... Jimmy Jabby was however "quite bad" to coin a phrase

Apologies for breathing life back into this topic but I had little or no internet access over the last week and just got back to TO. late last night. I have followed ICT in person and afar from the very start and I have to say - as I did to many in the Innes last week - that this was one of the most gutless and passionless performances I have ever seen from my team in the last 15 years. The team that wanted it won it and that is a hard thing for any ICT fan to say about County. Hard though it is, I can accept defeat in any match, even a County one, I can also bask in the glory of our wins and I can appreciate that wins and defeats come in many forms - lucky, deserved or undeserved. I have seen us royally pumped at Cappielow and the Shyberry and even at the TCS against County and I have seen us do the pumping .... this result goes down as a bad one not just because we lost, but because of the lack of passion we had for the fight. That is MY frustration ... if that makes me a bad fan, then fair enough.

Dani Sanchez :wacko:

lineup - sorry, no html polished presentation today - just got off a transatlantic flight late last night.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/s...rem/6305553.stm UK or VPN only

I'll be there :)

I think Robbo and Chic should have a wrestling match at the next ICT -V- St Mirren game (maybe we will get them in the cup) ..... they should be dressed up in Sumo costumes in the centre circle and the winner gets a year's supply of Barry's mum's baking [off topic for a second] but seriously ..... not sure what the craic is with the person that "can't stand" Robbo, each to their own and all that, but if you are an ICT fan, you should at least respect the man for what he did as ICT boss. I would still put Pele ahead of Robbo in terms of achievement based on his length of reign and the results he got (sorry John), but if you go by the numbers, Robbo was more succesful. Perhaps it was the "crime" of leaving us to go to Hearts? Sorry, I cant be angry at him for that given his playing history and given the fact that he has spoken honestly on here in the past saying - with hindsight - that it may not have been the right move !! [back on topic] I know open all mics isnt everyone's cup of tea, its sometimes chaotic and appears shambolic with everyone shouting in when something happens, but trust me you get used to it and it is the single fastest update service available, faster even than twitter from the ground for goals or major incidents !!! All you lot who are in the UK were spoiled for choice until we were relegated but now you are facing up to the type of coverage available to ex-pats the world over for the last few seasons !!! Prior to the introduction of open all mics, if your game wasnt being covered you got nothing, absolutely nothing and thats what you would be getting now if it wasnt for OAM. The thing I like about OAM is the different personalities involved. You can be sure of a war of words (or wits) between Robbo and Chic (not really fair when Chic only has his "wit level" set at ? though) and you can hear the passion these pundits have for the game or for certain teams ..... Going back to Chic, its really funny when he is reporting from a certain stadium that isnt St Mirren Park and he still gets all excited but tries - and fails - to tone it down a notch ;) . It is also a big plus for me that we have Robbo on there who always talks up ICT and the Highlands in general when one of the central belters starts going there with the A9 stories or the typical backward highlander p*sh !

This makes sense to me so I will amend our stats to reflect this and check it with the club and Ian Broadfoot. edit: email sent to club for confirmation Ian Broadfoot has confirmed the subs were as stated above and the reason for the mixup was indeed the team lines.