CaleyD

Alex, 1. I've already explained twice in the past when you've used the "it's an emolument not a salary" argument that they amount to the same thing. Surely I don't need to do so a third time? 2. You are correct, Charles Bannerman has as good as called Ian Black a liar for saying that he had not (at the time) been approached by the club. Quite a bold, if not somewhat compromising, position for him to have placed himself in. Other journalist might have just reported on the content of the interview without making such sweeping conclusions. 3. Given the fact that most, if not all, clubs are largely subsidised by "non-footballing" income streams I don't think that any player (whether obtained for free or not) could be said to have turned a profit where little or no selling fee is received on their departure. 4. We're also only 5 points from the bottom of the table...so as I said, just!!!

I know you were saying that with tongue in cheek, but there's no reason Karaoke could not be included. In fact, if you have a stage then you can do just about anything, and when I said "groups" that also meant we could include things such as amateur dramatics, highland dancers...whatever or whoever wants to get up and give it a go and attempt to entertain for a bit.

I think that's precisely what the club should do 5th Stand.

Very insightful Charles. What ever happened to the concept of impartial reporting?

I appreciate where your coming from Alex....but your making a few assumptions of your own in the above.

The club were quick enough to go to press saying that Cowie had been offered a contract earlier in the season. In fact, it's been fairly normal practice for the club to go public when players are offered contracts (most recently, Munro, Duncan, Cowie, Tokely are all ones that were in the press before deals had been finalised as far as memory serves).....so, why didn't they also tell us that other players were also offered contracts at the time? That, and the fact that Brewster was extremely reluctant to partake in any discussion on the matter, leaves me wondering just who is being "misleading" It becomes increasingly difficult and frustrating to sort out what is truth and what is (poor) spin when it comes to ICT given their persistence to only release news/information on a reactionary basis. Not strictly true.....just getting ready to head out so don't have time to elaborate, but I will when I get back if nobody else has.

So what we're saying here is that we need to relocate?

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I disagree. There's a lot to be said for offering players a bit of security by ensuring they never have less than 12 months left on any contract. IMO, ICT screwed up before last season when they neglected to look after existing key players whilst courting Niculae. Instead of learning from that they repeated the error again before this season when they seemed to be more interested in chasing Barrowman than sitting down to talk with key players.

I think Charles is just looking for an argument by reading something in to my post that clearly isn't there. Journalist types are good at that sort of thing...sometimes

And people call me cynical

Yes, schoolboy error on my part with the VAT calculation.....but I'll stick to my guns on the fact that it's not a 2.5p VAT cut that the club are passing on....as stated in the opening post

A small covered stage above the catering area on the west side of the stadium and invite local bands/groups to put on a performance at each home game. Let them do 30 minutes before kick off and 10/15 minutes at half time. Do it in conjunction with someone like the Iron Works on a "joint promotion" venture. Helps promote local talent as well as giving a bit of variety every week. Might even encourage a few people swithering about attending to lean towards coming and increase attendances a little. Gets people to the stadium earlier, chance to get food etc before kick off and reduce congestion at food stalls at half-time. Also might get people livened up a bit before the match and help improve atmosphere during the game.

Care to elaborate CD? 12th Man's maths look spot on to me! VAT on ?20 ticket at 17.5% = ?3.50 VAT on ?20 ticket at 15.0% = ?3.00 That's a 2.5% or 50p reduction the club are looking to pass on...not 2.5p or the 2.13% stated by 12th Man. On the discussion of whether or not they should be passing it on, then as some have said...the club are in a no-win situation. They have decided that they will pass on the saving. However, I also think that they should perhaps put donation boxes on the turnstiles and give people the option of giving that saving back to the club. That keeps everyone happy.

You need to check your maths 12th Man.

That's conclusive then, who am I to argue with what's on Pie and Bovril?

Thanks for heads up Tabs.

Story I heard was that it was the Stenny fans that kicked off the trouble after the game because they were refused access to the Clach Club.

Wish I could agree with you...... gits. That was a feckin humiliation 2 years ago having to go down there for a replay and face all the sheer hatred for us taking their SPL place. They were spitting at the supporters buses and everything. You freeze your bollox off for 2 hours and lose on penalties to what was more or less a pub team who hardly got out of their own half. Granted, I didn't witness the treatment fans got down there at the last outing, but in general the craic/rivalry has always been good between the fans without what you described above and with any luck enough time has passed to "sooth" the whole promotion carry on a bit....ok, so maybe not As to which team you draw....I really don't buy in to the "looking for an easy" team/game theory. I'm a great believer in the fact that if your in a tournament, then your intention is to win it. In order to win it then you've got to be able to get through the tougher games whenever they come along.

The point I was making was that we, as well as the majority of other clubs, are far from being in the kind of position where we can gloat at the misfortune of others. Perhaps if we owned our stadium, could pay players their full worth and have them on meaningful contracts (length wise), were getting decent crowds every week, had a manager who had us performing at our best and had a few million in the bank then we could do a bit of pointing and laughing....but we aren't. The truth of the matter, whether people like it or not, is that we're far, far closer to the "bust" line than we are the "well off and safe" one and although the comparisons I have made might not appear "as bad" as Livingston, they are still indicators of the fact that we face many of the same issues.....and the best we can hope for is that they don't escalate to the stage where they do put is in the same situation.

And things are so much better at ICT??? - Being pursued by Niculae for money we (allegedly) owe him. - Barely managing to get past Arbroath and Morton before succumbing to Falkirk. - A manager many people would take delight in seeing sacked. I'm no fan of Livingston, but hardly think we are in any position to be casting stones about mismanagement.

Weekend of 10th January (I think)

Good stuff...always enjoyed our matches against Partick, as much for the craic between the fans as anything else. Hopefully both clubs will see sense when it comes to setting ticket prices and look to encourage as many people through the gates as possible.

Only really two disappointments in that game today for me. Firstly, we got caught again trying to play the offside trap....lost count of how many goals we've lost as a result of that this season. Secondly, we were unable to record a shot on goal over the 90+ minutes and then subbed a striker for a striker when we really needed to be increasing the attacking threat (IMO) Not blaming anyone in particular for that second point, it was always going to be the risk this season that we'd be weak at the front as we're relying so much on less experienced forwards and as much as Wood seemed to be pushing in on goal, you really do need a bit of luck to score when your a loan striker against a defence like Celtics. Every player seemed to be playing their part, Duncan sounded like he was having a stormer (and got Sportsound MotM). Commentators remarked on Black controlling the middle of the park, winning all the 50/50 balls and picking up all the scraps and Imrie constantly seemed to be running the line before running out of options (again a product of only one up front, so not much else he could have done). Again I live in hope that we can start performing like that at home (with the addition of threatening the opposite goal more often).

If we can put on a performance similar to last weeks then I'll be happy enough.