Oddquine

mate called. Stuart used to play for Lossie. Said was their first team. 1 nil to Lossie. Said he thought Proctor played too

If we give it a few days..maybe there will be something on the Lossie website.because it is more than unlikely that there will be anything on the ICT site........given I haven't seen any report on the Elgin game yet.

If it was their first team...then it was a good result, if you bear in mind that the majority of the U-19 team have only played within their own U-17 age group until today.

Ant one know the score. Have a mate in Lossie who was going but he left his mobie at home.

1-nil to Lossie.........which, tbh is a darn good result for an U-19 team playing their first competitive match together against a highland league team (though no idea the mix of the lossie team between kids and first team members)

Very well done to the U-16s.......and as I don't remember seeing a thread for the others...well done the U-15s and the U-12s, as well.

Not a lot wrong with our youth coaching it seems.

ICTFC.co.uk is one very sorry excuse for an official site.

Who on earth runs it within the club? Or perhaps, is it external?

Whichever.........it is a joke and an embarrassment!

It appears that it is hosted on premiumtv.co.uk, and if you google that you get to here Perform Group

Now maybe I'm a bit anal....but I absolutely loathe sites built with flash..so I'm biased before I even get into it.

Rangers FC is on premiumtv.co.uk as well........and given that there is loads more info on that site (even if it is bogged down in flash) it does rather look as if it is ICT who aren't bothering to update.

You think that ICT is the only business in the world without anybody who is capable of using a computer?

On one of Oddquines points though.....It may not be the responsibility of a manager to motivate but good managers do it as a matter of course. Reward and encouragement are all used to motivate. Anyone, in any field, should be giving what is expected of them for the salary they recieve and if they are in any way ambitious then thats what they will be doing and the pat on the back, the well done, the thank you is going to motivate them to do even more.

Fair enough in that respect....you should always praise someone for a job well done....but you shouldn't have to gee them up to go out and do that job in the first place. The strongest motivation should be self-motivation because the player wants to win and in a team sport the motivation must be because the players want to win together....and actually earn their pay. Where is their pride in doing their job well?

Interesting take on motivation for footballers HERE

This is likely in the wrong place...but feel free to move it.

This was brought on by the furore about the England World Cup debacle, and the cries to get rid of the England manager, mostly.....but also the fact that, on many of the forums I read, if not post on, there seems to be some idea that the manger has a responsibility to motivate players.

I was brought up in the days when you were paid a wage, and you did a job. It was called work ethic...and seems to have disappeared along with commonsense and a sense of personal responsibility in recent years.

You did the job because you were paid the wage to do the job...whether you liked your immediate line manager, or thought he was a waste of space......and whether you thought the person above him was an eejit of the first water or not. The systems put in place may not have been the best ones, or the most sensible ones, in your opinion........but regardless, you did what you had to do to the best of your ability...because that is what you were being paid to do...and heaven help you if you brought your personal problems into the work place and reduced your competency.

Why should highly paid, and relatively highly paid footballers have any less of an obligation to give 100% minimum in every game they play? Sure, if the tactics are wrong, then that is down to the manager.....but wrong tactics are not an excuse for not bothering to do your best.

Sure the team make-up might be wrong, and not gel as expected, perhaps down to the chosen tactics.....but that does not mean that players shouldn't try to do their best.

But why on earth should a team manager, and particularly a National Team Manager, have to motivate his players to earn their wages any more than any manager in any business has to motivate his employees to earn their wages?

After all, professional football is a job like any other...hence the "professional".

So 4 years ago Portugal tops received a boost in sales from north of the border. Have you seen anyone in Scotland walking around in a Germany top since Sunday?

Seems JJB Sports, in Elgin anyway, didn't have them........because i know at least one person who would be wearing one if he could have got one!

I can't believe that anybody with a lick of sense actually accepts without question the crap which emits from the mouths of Israeli spokesmen...and the crap which is uploaded by Israeli apologist sites.

As far as I'm concerned, if videos uploaded by the IDF or the IsraelMFA don't let you see exif data ...the videos are suspect.......because they have been proven to be false in the past.....and not the distant past, either.

On average, over the piece, I am inclined to think that Israel wouldn't know the truth if it reared up and bit them on the bahookey.

I am as much a supporter of the Palestinian cause because the Israelis feel they have to lie to justify their actions as because of the inequity of those actions....can't see any merit, myself, in supporting any cause which is inequitable, unfair, disproportionate and necessitates lies to convince others it is equitable, fair and proportionate.

Fair, equitable, proportionate and honest will get my support.............lies, unfairness, dissembling and disproportionate will not.

Simples.

Yngwie, just which part of nearly do you not understand...as in The three were dragged into one of the passenger halls below deck and were held there for several minutes. After dozens of other commandos began searching the ship, the Mavi Marmara, the three soldiers regained consciousness and managed to join their comrades. Chains and shackles? I think not!

Seems to me that as long as the US is brown-nosing Israel to the extent that Israel can, and does, thumb its nose at the rest of the world knowing the USA has its back......any reasonably peaceful method the representatives of other countries (32 in this case) can do to remind the world media of the illegal and insupportable actions of Israel regarding their treatment of the Occupied Palestinian Territories is fine by me.

I was born months before the declaration of the state of Israel..and have watched the ongoing situation all my life and have been, from a fairly early age, frankly disgusted at the actions of an oppressed people using force of arms to oppress others in order to attain goals forbidden by the International community and International Law.

I just do not understand where apologists for Israeli actions are coming from, I'm afraid........and to date, nobody has ever given me a cogent reason as to why people who were trashed, confined to ghettoes by the Nazis and installed in internment/death camps for no reason other than they were inconvenient to the Nazi idea of the best demographic for Germany feel it is appropriate to inflict the same misery on others because they are not convenient in ensuring the appropriate demography to ensure a Jewish state.

More inclined to trust Al-Jazeera than IDF produced videos, I'm afraid. Particularly one which was twittered by Israeli journalist, Lisa Goldman as IDF spokesman uploads blurry B&W footage of #flotilla, with helpful graphics explaining what you're supposed to see.

I note that even yet, there has been no IDF video of any weapon other than could easily have been cobbled up on board around the time that the Israeli Navy started firing warning shots across the ship's bows.....and certainly nothing used which could remotely have been a justification for killing people in "self defence".

Interesting to note that I have a weapon in the dish on my sideboard.....a bag of marbles just like the weaponry shown..and I can't even claim to have children around..plus the wherewithal to produce any one of those "weapons" Therefore anyone who enters my house had better be coming in to defend themselves by shooting to kill....or I'll surely beat the living daylights out of them.

Just another example of OTT Israeli actions/reactions, imo.

Of course they were deliberately sailing to breach an illegal blockade.......just look on it as a high seas version of the G7 demonstrations, and any other demonstration which ends with police/participant violence.....but the point is that Israel killed people who were using what amounted to sticks and stones solely in order to ensure Israel was able to continue inflicting that illegal blockade on the inhabitants of Gaza.

It certainly backfired on those who were killed...but it has all backfired on Israel as well...and hopefully this time they will take a long hard look themselves....and stop behaving like the playground bully.

It sickens me that a country born out of the inhumane treatment suffered by Jews in Europe has spent the past sixty odd years visiting much the same kind of inhumane treatment on their own pariah equivalents.

Correct pal. Not to mention, the Israeli propaganda machine is only releasing the footage that will make them look like it was them that were sinned against. Where is the footage of people being shot? As i am sure there will be some.

And if you are going to believe what the Isrealis say, with only their word for it, then you will also have to take into account the Activists claims that the shooting started before the boat was even boarded.

How's about a look at Al-Jazeera footage taken before the commandos actually arrived.

Raw footage from Al Jazeera

Certainly appears to give the lie to any Israeli claims of self defence........there looks to have been a death before any Israeli set foot on deck, given a death is mentioned before there is any mention of boarding.

Definitely plenty shooting going on before any boarding anyway.

Has anyone changed their perspective now that footage has been released painting a different story from that portrayed by the 'humanitarian' shipmates. It appears that on boarding the ship the soldiers were attacked with iron bars, knives and other makeshift melee weapons. They proceeded to fire paintball guns to try to disperse the mob who responded with live fire, to which the soldiers returned live fire. As far as I'm concerned, if this version of events is accurate, the actions of the Israeli soldiers were entirely justified.

Frankly...no.

Why was it justified...the soldiers should not have been boarding any ship in International waters in the first place. They were where they shouldn't have been.....much like any intruder.....and have to accept the consequences.

I'd have seen the point if the ships were in Israeli waters without permission..but they were not, were they.......they were sailing through International Waters towards Palestinian Waters.

Kindly explain to me the great and obvious difference between Israel's illegal actions and those of your average Somalian pirate..or is nobody allowed to defend themselves against Somalian pirates either?

Until such time as the USA steps up to the plate and stops vetoing every resolution in the UNSC which would hold Israel to account, and until the USA stops subsidising Israel's war machine, thus freeing up Israeli money to construct and extend illegal settlements on Palestinian land and blockade Gaza, there is Buckley's Chance of any change in the Israel/Palestine situation.

I find it more than ironic that Iran is being sanctioned because we think there might just be a possibility that they are considering, at some future stage, the acquisition of nuclear weapons.....but Israel can behave like a spoiled child, used to having its own way who has a fast grip on somebody else's toy, and is having tantrums because they are expected to give it back......and all they get in reaction is weasel words.

Faults on both sides, certainly...but as the self-declared "Only Western Democracy in the Middle East"........should we not expect a somewhat higher standard from them, compared to two enclaves in ghettos who control only what Israel allows them to control? Does Israel not offer a horrendously embarrassing example of how Western Democracy works in an area where we would like to see more of it?

I repeat:

Name me a single product of the ICT Youth system that has been released and gone on to be successful at a level of significance?

No one disagrees with your sentiments but most posters are realistic enough to recognise that we have to trawl considerable areas to find emerging young players. It is naive in the extreme to think that the entire population of the Highlands (circa 220,00) over a geopraphical area the size of Belgium will be able to produce enough to sustain a top flight football team.

Equally it is sensible to consider recruiting youngsters who have been in the youth systems of other much bigger clubs and been released for whatever reason. The likelehood is that these clubs, with much bigger numbers to choose from, get it wrong sometimes and those released may have potential. Young Shinnie is a prime example and, if he makes it, will be in no small measure, due to the ICT Youth set up.

And, I repeat, I don't know, because I have no idea when the youth system started, who has come out of it and where they are now.

I'm not saying that is not the case. :ph34r:

However, if you care to check back to the OP (which was never meant as a thread starter anyway)......you will see that it was a response to someone who was rather sneering about ICT youth system products, whatever their origins.

I should think, given we are going to have to find an U-19 squad pdq, that we will be trawling for players.....do we have someone at the SPL exit trials today, btw?

All I was saying was that, just because they are homegrown, does not mean they are useless because, logically, if they were.....they would not have been signed in the first place, and certainly not given another year. Strikes me if Terry thinks they are worth signing, then they have potential. It may not be realised in the end.....but they deserve as much of a chance as any youth player from any other club.

No sweat, we could afford nos. 36, 41 & 45!

That's because they are paid sensible wages. How on earth can anybody be worth ?70,000 a week for doing nothing much, in the great scheme of things.

West Ham have leaked the salaries and contracts of their current Playing and Management !

WEST HAM UNITED - FIRST TEAM SQUAD 2009-2010 - CONTRACTS & SALARIES

No Player Position Weekly Yearly Joined Fee Notes

Gianfranco Zola Manager ?36,300 ?1,887,600 Sep 2008 N/A Contract Sep 2008 - June 2011; Ext Jun 2013 (@Apr 2009)

Steve Clark Assist Man ?24,200 ?1,258,400 Sep 2008 N/A Contract Sep 2008 - June 2011; Ext Jun 2013 (@Apr 2009)

Kevin Keen Head Coach ?12,100 ?629,200 Jul 2002 N/A Contract Oct 2006 - June 2009; Ext Jun 2011 (@Sep 2008)

Kevin Hitchcock Coach (GK) ?3,000 ?156,000 Mar 2010 N/A Contract March - June 2010 (@Mar 2010)

1 Robert Green Goalkeeper ?30,000 ?1,560,000 Aug 2006 ?2,000,000 Contract Aug 2006 - Jun 2010; Ext Jun 2011 (@Aug 2008)

4 Danny Gabbidon Defender ?50,000 ?2,600,000 Jul 2005 ?1,500,000 Contract Aug 2005 - Jun 2008; Ext Jun 2010 (@Aug 2007)

7 Kieron Dyer Midfield ?70,000 ?3,640,000 Aug 2007 ?6,000,000 Contract Aug 2007 - Jun 2011

8 Scott Parker Midfield ?70,000 ?3,640,000 Jun 2007 ?7,000,000 Contract Aug 2007 - Jun 2012

9 Mido (Ahmed Hossam) Forward ?1,000 ?52,000 Feb 2010 Loan Loan Feb 2010 - Jun 2010

10 Guillermo Franco Forward ?20,000 ?1,040,000 Sep 2009 Loan Contract Sep 2009 - Jun 2010

11 Ilan Araujo Dall'Igna F'wrd ?19,231 ?1,000,000 Feb 2010 Loan Loan Feb 2010 - Jun 2010

12 Carlton Cole Forward ?50,000 ?2,600,000 Jul 2006 ?1,000,000 Contract Jul 2006 - Jun 2010; Ext Jun 2013 (@Nov 2008)

13 Luis Boa Morte Midfield ?70,000 ?3,640,000 Jan 2007 ?5,000,000 Contract Jan 2007 - Jun 2010

14 Radoslav Kovac Midfield ?20,000 ?1,040,000 Jan 2009 ?3,250,000 Contract Aug 2009 - Jun 2012

15 Matthew Upson Defender ?70,000 ?3,640,000 Jan 2007 ?7,500,000 Contract Jan 2007 - Jun 2011

16 Mark Noble Midfield ?20,000 ?1,040,000 Jul 2000 Academy (2000) Debut (Aug 2004) (Contract Jul 2009 - Jun 2013) (@Apr 2009)

17 Benni McCarthy Forward ?38,462 ?2,000,000 Feb 2010 ?2,500,000 Contract Feb 2010 - June 2012

18 Jonathan Spector Defender ?20,000 ?1,040,000 Jun 2006 ?500,000 Contract Aug 2006 - Jun 2010

20 Julien Faubert Midfield ?30,000 ?1,560,000 Jun 2007 ?6,100,000 Contract Jul 2007 - Jun 2012

21 Valon Behrami Midfield ?30,000 ?1,560,000 Jul 2008 ?5,000,000 Contract Jul 2008 - Jul 2013

22 Manuel da Costa Defender ?20,000 ?1,040,000 Aug 2009 ?2,000,000 Contract Aug 2008 - Jun 2012

23 Herita Ilunga Defender ?20,000 ?1,040,000 Sep 2008 Loan / Fee Loan Aug 2008 - Jun 2009; Contract Jul 2009 - Jun 2013

28 Peter Kurucz Goalkeeper ?5,000 ?260,000 Feb 2009 Loan / Fee Loan Jul 2008 - Jun 2009; Contract Jul 2009 - Jun 2014

29 Marek Stech Goalkeeper ?3,000 ?156,000 Jul 2006 Academy (2006) Debut (Sub only) (Contract Jul 2006 - Jun 2010)

30 James Tomkins Defender ?4,000 ?208,000 Jul 2005 Academy (2005) Debut (Mar 2008) (Contract Jul 2009 - Jun 2013) (@Apr 2009)

31 Jack Collison Midfield ?2,000 ?104,000 Jul 2005 Academy (2005) Debut (Jan 2008) (Contract Jul 2008 - Jun 2013)

32 Alessandro Diamanti Forward ?30,000 ?1,560,000 Aug 2009 ?6,000,000 Contract Aug 2009 - Jun 2014

33 Fabio Daprela Defender ?10,000 ?520,000 Jul 2009 ?500,000 Contract Jul 2009 - Jun 2014

34 Oliver Lee Midfield ?400 ?20,800 Jul 2009 Academy (2009) Debut (Sub only) (Contract Jul 2009 - Jun 2010) (@Apr 2009)

36 Anthony Edgar Midfield ?400 ?20,800 Jul 2004 Academy (2004) Debut (Jan 2010) (Contract Jul 2009 - Jun 2010) (@Apr 2009)

41 Zavon Hines Forward ?400 ?20,800 Jul 2006 Academy (2006) Debut (Aug 2008) (Contract Jul 2009 - Jun 2010) (@Apr 2009)

45 Jordan Spence Defender ?400 ?20,800 Jul 2004 Academy (2004) Debut (N/A) (Contract Jul 2006 - Jun 2010)

46 Junior Stanislas Midfield ?1,500 ?78,000 Jul 2000 Academy (2000) Debut (Mar 2009) (Contract Jul 2009 - Jun 2014) (@Apr 2009)

That is just ludicrous...no wonder clubs are running vast overdrafts, and even going into administration if they are expected to try and match such silly money.

Easy seen why greed rules in the UK nowadays when Joe Punter looks at bankers' bonus levels and wages like that for people who kick a wee ba' aboot. If they were performing surgery or something really useful, I could understand it.......but, as football fan...that kind of wages are indefensible.

Never have quite understood why anyone in their right minds would think people who entertain us are worth so much more than those who govern us, look after our health, put out our fires and keep us safe etc.

It's a very screwed up world, imo.

Always remember being told that for every 50 players trialed maybe one is good enough, so to make up a squad of 15 youth players ( and were talking under 10s ) it takes a very keen eye to spot some promising talent, although a few will stand out from the crowd.

Then as they get proper coaching, from the guys that go out and do their coaching badges - not the know alls at the side of the pitch who lambast every decision. They are specifically trained to nurture the best out of the talent they have, and often finding the position to best suit the player.

Every year players will be dropped, moved on for different reasons, with others coming in. It would be pretty rare that any player spotted at 7 or 8 years old is still at a club at 18 -19. As all the distractions that come along add pressure to these guys. Careers, money, social life, wine women and song as it were, can change the youngsteras attitude.

So I would say that if any youth player makes it all the way through the ranks and plays for the first team, it must be an incredibly proud moment for the Youth trainers to see, always hoping they can then make it to become a regular in the squad.

I know that at the moment the youth players at the club are amongst the best they have ever produced. Liam Polworth being a shinning example having been picked for Scotland youth squads, played, scored, and not ever looked out of place.

However, a danger sometimes is some exceptional players never achieve at the top level having peaked too early, or burnt them selves out. And its the players that have just hung in there who do make good professionals at top clubs.

Over the years Inverness and the surrounding area has had few exceptional players, most likely due to the level of football in the area with the Highland league ( which harboured many a player who were good enough to play at a much higher level ). I personally think that as ICT has grown in stature so has our standard of youth teams, Training and players. Out of the 15s and 17s at the moment a good dozen to fifteen have a very good chance of going on to have a career in full time football, with many of these unrecognised at national level, probably purely because other clubs have better players in their squads at the moment. That doesnt mean thay are not real talents. However the longer we are at the summit of Scottish football the better the standards become, and the more consistant levels of player we will produce.

In Terry Butcher and Maurice Malpas I also think we have two men of football intelligence who know when to blood promising players, without harming their progress. Hope Im proven right, as I think they had a very good track record of this at Motherwell, and our good promising guys will get a shout if they show they are capable.

The future is bright.

Disagree with none of that, bauhaus.

My redirected into its own thread OP was not a pop at the ICT system...but at one individual poster (but not the only one on here) who is happy to allow other teams' youth rejects to re-sign for us, because they have been given a chance by us, and proven their worth......yet proceed to dismiss the homegrown ICT youth signings as not being worth a place even on the bench in the SPL (or SFL, come to that).

That level of Uriah Heep style forelock-tugging frankly makes me spew.

No HOY in any team is any better than ours......no system is any better than ours, going by the numbers of youths released annually from all of them.......and if our management think that any of our youth system kids are worth their chance...why on earth do we not encourage them and be proud of them...rather than whine and assume they will be crap because they are local.

It appears that some in the Highlands, who post here, tend to prove the biblical rule......Mark 6:4 "But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house."

The test for me will always be what someone who has failed to make the grade at ICT goes on to achieve. Using that as a benchmark it is pretty fair to say that any youth player that has been allowed to leave has, to date, not proven the decision to be anything other than correct.

Rory is probably the most successful, scoring barrowloads of goals at his level. One or two are playing 3rd division football and plenty now play in the Highland League.

I would absolutely love us to be able to produce from home but is really difficult at this level. Much bigger clubs have exactly the same problem.

Basically, if anyone can give me an example of a success story from our ranks that has come back to haunt us I will stand corrected. Closest I can think of is Vigurs but that barely caused a dent despite my previous misgivings.

Name anyone?

Can't find many who are purely a product of ICT's youth system, but possibly Gavin Morrison and Nick Ross, were (and if not, why not?)? McAllister came in from Aberdeen youth, didn't he.......and Vigurs from Aberdeen via Celtic? Not really a product of the ICT youth system.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but, for clubs who trawl the world for the best players at youth level, do the OF not sign relatively few of those to the main squad, compared to the numbers who are in the system?

It is completely illogical that some are more than happy to sign the rejects from other club's youth systems, and re-sign them once they have had a chance to grow and adapt to our game.....as a fair few from elsewhere did for ICT this season........yet do not credit ICT brought up players with any of the same ability as those players other clubs did not rate enough to keep.

Have to say, I have no idea when the ICT youth system was set up as a formal entity. I'd assume when ICT went into the SPL, at least, though happy to be corrected regarding that.....and if so, we are possibly looking at the demise of the under 19s last season as being the first time there was any requirement not to lose decent homegrown u-19 players worth a shot.

Given the catchment area, and the inability, economics-wise, to sign youth players from overseas.......I'd have said that two homegrowns, and two acquired, signed to the main squad, out of the ICT system is a pretty good average...given that, last season (I think), Rangers only signed four out of around forty u-19s of all nationalities...and Celtic's u-19s did not fare any better.

The problem, imo, is not in the will of managers like TB and others in Scottish Football to give kids a chance.......the problem lies more in the rantings of those fans who think you have to pay for "class"..because, in our case, if you are Highland area born, and ICT brought up, you do not have any because we, in the highlands do not have any class, do we!!!! :021:

Jeez, I do hate the "Here's tae us, wha's like us?.....Anybody from anywhere outside the local area if they cost us money...because costing us money means they have ability" attitude. Excuse me if I borrow an expression used by all my grandkids........DUH! :angry:

Has Dundee, this season, not proven that you can't buy a team?

Nick Ross and Greame Shinnie signed new 1 year deals in March/April

Hope Shinnie and Ross get games this season coming :D

Only in the cup if not we will bounce down :004:

See that is why I get hacked off on this forum with many ICT "supporters"...because they are not prepared to give people a chance. Watched it on here from the day I joined.....I challenge any one of you to come up with a team of players of which you have unequivocally approved, who would have won this league, and got us back into the SPL. Seen complaints about just about everybody in the squad, to date.

Why on earth do ICT bother to have a youth squad at all, if there are those who think, as so many ignorant Scots appear to do, that homegrown and club brought up means they are sh1te...because they have not cost silly money.

I have posted in other threads to comment on the fact that ICT management would be idiots to play young homegrown players simply in order for those who think if they come from the Highlands or environs they have got to be useless to trash and demolarise them...and the above post proves that in spades. Much better, as far as some are concerned, to sell on....because kids who are good enough for Rangers, Celtic, Dundee United, Hearts et al...are not good enough for ICT.....because we have not paid for them.

Think about it, people...............do you know how many of the ICT youth squad have/will have had the opportunity to go elsewhere to the likes of the OF and decided to remain with a team which could possibly offer first team football much earlier....and because they are loyal to the club which has allowed them to realise their dream?

I read this forum, and ninety percent of the time, I do not think that ICT supporters live in the real world........at least not in the real world that I do.

And to refer to another post.....just how the hell does anybody know how Kyle Allison would perform, if it came to the crunch.......given he has never been tried?

Thanks you MFR for being completely useless!

What I was thinking! :D

Have a great day, people! Away to try and get tuned to MFR to listen to it all! :D

Those who did go on the pitch were only spurred on to do so by the players rushing towards the fans (not blaming either eagle or morrision because they deserve to celebrate). They were not sitting quietly and then had the idea that they could get the club a fine if they ran on the pitch. Right it shouldnt have happened but its entirely unfair to suggest those fans (and not so-called supporters, anyone who likes ICT is a fan!!!) entered the pitch just to cause the club problems. It was a spur on the moment thing and sorry you lying if you have never done anything in your life in the spur of the moment without thinking of the consequences. As you say your an older supporter how can you honestly say you wouldnt have done the same thing when you were their age. Doesnt stop the fact, people shouldnt be on the pitch during the game and I think people know this and wont do the same at dundee. Those who do try and go on the pitch I feel sorry for because they will have been caught up in the excitement of the day and it will end it possibly serious punishment for them. WE ARE FIRST DIVISION CHAMPIONS. LET'S JUST ENJOY OUR DAY

But did the players not get yellow carded for doing just that? Why would anyone expect the club would not also get punished...even if the invasion was "all in good fun".

Never quite understood the "getting caught up in the moment" mindset.....but then, I am one who, as a teenager, sat at the back of the Two Red Shoes in Elgin at a Herman and the Hermits concert and just listened to what music I could hear over the noise of the screaming numpties around the stage.

TBH, it's not as much the fact that the pitch was invaded during the match that irritated me........it happened, can't be changed, and if there are consequences, they will have to be suffered...by the club

What bothered me more, and which prompted my various posts in this and other threads is that relatively few seemed to see anything wrong with doing it...in fact some were even proud of it.

Kinda wonder if I am older than any one else posting on this forum....but I am absolutely horrified at those who try to justify exposing ICT to fines they may well struggle to afford just so that certain elements within the club who claim to be supporters can indulge themselves by deliberately putting ICT in the position of possibly having to find the wherewithal to compensate for their ignorant, eejit fans.

I honestly do not believe[/i] the absolute self-serving crap I have read on this thread, and others, which seem to insinuate that what the fans want is much more important than what the SFA/SFL/SPL rules dictate.

Enter the real world, people....there are rules......and you cannot start from the premise that ICT is above those rules...because they are most definitely not....unless you are happy to accept that ICT will have to pay for indulging the arrogance and ignorance of elements within their support, who think that they are above the rules as laid down.

What the intelligent person does not do is be stupid and try to justify that stupidity after the event....the intelligent person considers the possible consequences and does not do what may well attract consequences for the football club they profess to support.

Have you actually read the thread? Nobody is trying to justify exposing ICT to fines and most are happy enough to accept the advice/warnings that have been given.

People have questioned why the club would be fined and some have disagreed with the rules, but nobody is saying "stuff it, let's do it anyway", in fact, I've not seen any suggestions that people intend/ed to enter on to the pitch during the game....which is what you might think has been said reading your post.

Furthermore, calling people eejits, ignorant, arrogant, lacking in intelligence, stupid etc serves no useful purpose and will only antagonise a situation which doesn't need any stirring up.

I have read all the threads appertaining to the Ayr game, from the match thread at the time of the match, where there were posts thrilled at the pitch invasions, to every other one since....and have been horrified at the level of uncaring which many "fans" have shown regarding the possible consequences to the club they profess to love.

I'm not able to attend many games because of distance/cost..........but I am well aware of the rules regarding pitch invasion....and would never jeapordise my club's finances to allow me a momentary thrill just because I could.

I have not called every ICT supporter eejits, ignorant, arrogant, lacking in intelligence, stupid etc...just those who were terminally stupid enough to prance onto the field at Ayr during the game after the goals....just because they thought they did not have to consider the reputation of, or the consequences to, the club.

Strikes me those who did invade the pitch at Ayr and have posted on this thread, notwithstanding their posts on other threads, are not agreeing because they think that they did anything wrong at Ayr..but because they are aware that ICT Stewards may well spoil their fun, and make them miss the trophy hand over, if they did the same again.

See, imo,........you don't say you won't do what is against the rules because that might make you miss some of the fun on the last day........you should be obeying the rules because they are the rules, and have been for as long as I can remember.

Never have, and never will, understand the mentality which thinks that rules apply to anybody but us....and are only to be obeyed if they affect us as individuals, rather than the club as a whole.

Kinda wonder if I am older than any one else posting on this forum....but I am absolutely horrified at those who try to justify exposing ICT to fines they may well struggle to afford just so that certain elements within the club who claim to be supporters can indulge themselves by deliberately putting ICT in the position of possibly having to find the wherewithal to compensate for their ignorant, eejit fans.

I honestly do not believe[/i] the absolute self-serving crap I have read on this thread, and others, which seem to insinuate that what the fans want is much more important than what the SFA/SFL/SPL rules dictate.

Enter the real world, people....there are rules......and you cannot start from the premise that ICT is above those rules...because they are most definitely not....unless you are happy to accept that ICT will have to pay for indulging the arrogance and ignorance of elements within their support, who think that they are above the rules as laid down.

What the intelligent person does not do is be stupid and try to justify that stupidity after the event....the intelligent person considers the possible consequences and does not do what may well attract consequences for the football club they profess to support.

Be interesting to see, if there is a fine, whether those who went on to the park during the game put their hands in their pockets and donate towards a fine they earned for the club.

But then you could argue that all the fans that went on the pitch would have given more than what ever the fine is in merchandise, tickets etc. Anyway, lets look on the bright side a fine would be very harsh indeed and surely an unlikely outcome.

You could also argue that the fans were as indisciplined as any player who is red/yellow carded during a game for unsporting conduct. And you could also argue that having a season ticket for ICT, or paying to watch a game, does not entitle the lunatics to take over the asylum.

Been a couple of threads on here in which fans try to justify their foolish actions...while I think there is no justification for rank stupidity. Did anyone on the pitch during the Ayr game even give a thought for the possible repercussions for the club, before indulging their own inability to control themselves?

I think it ludicrous that there even has to be a thread like this in a football forum to tell fans what they should know.

Not that unlikely.........it will depend on precedence, because if other clubs have been fined for incursions during a game, can the powers-that-be make an exception for ICT and maintain credibility?

Be interesting to see, if there is a fine, whether those who went on to the park during the game put their hands in their pockets and donate towards a fine they earned for the club.