MorayJaggie

Every job i have had it says in my contract immediate grounds for dismissal will be to bring my employers name into disrepute and that if I was ever charged or arrested I needed to make my employer aware failure to do so would be grounds for immediate dismissal. If the club do not have these clauses in there contracts there is something wrong especially with the high profile in the local community of our players.

24 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

Actually you are not disagreeing with me on that.  I too find it very difficult to see how he can continue here but the club need to wait upon the sentencing before making that decision.  This discussion has been based solely on the Prosecution case which is clearly compelling.  Another fact which will act against Calder is that the report talks about identification not being a problem.  That suggests Calder was arrested sometime after the event.  Had Calder felt any remorse after this appalling assault then the sensible thing would have been to immediately turn himself into the police.

What the report does not address and what seems bizarre is that if the evidence of CCTV footage is as clear as reported, why did Calder not plead guilty?  He and his lawyers will have seen it.  There is either some significant bit of information which has not been reported or, in the cold light of day Calder has made an incredibly stupid decision.  If the evidence is as straightforward as folk here are assuming then his defence lawyers will have advised him to plead guilty,  If that is the case then his behaviour is even more reprehensible that we already know it to be.

So whilst the information we do know makes prospects look very grim for Calder, the club cannot react in a knee jerk fashion.  They need to base their decision on the full facts of the case, (some of which may not be known until the detail of the background checks is known) and take legal advice.  It may be there will no legal grounds for dismissing him but if that is the case, the best thing all round may well be for Calder to agree to a termination of contract by mutual consent. What we don't want to happen is for Calder to successfully sue the club for wrongful dismissal.

 

 

Sentencing does not cover compelling reasons for the assault etc it only covers social background.I.e income, children, family circumstances To determine the sentence. The trial found his reasons for the assault not to be true as he said self defence. The sentencing has been delayed to move it to a higher court which cam impose a higher fine/ and or jail term. They do not take into account the reason for the assault that is what the trial is for. He has been found guilty and the club must act. The full facts of the case are concluded at the end of the trial. He knew the situation he chose to plead not guilty and by going to trial the penalty with will be more severe as he will not get any discounts for pleading guilty at any of the intermediate or pleading diets. Also during the trial once the CCTV was shown he could still have changed his plea but did not. This shows a lack of remorse or acceptance of his disgusting assault. What more does the club need to know? 

30 minutes ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

Depends on what you mean by "this type of thing".  Dismissal for bringing your employer's name into disrepute is probably in most contracts.  Dismissal because of criminal conviction might not be. 

We have a situation in which a person could well be treated differently by their employer because he is a first team player rather than an unknown member of backroom staff.  That's a distinction which won't exist in employment law - though there will be similar cases in the past - so if I was thinking of terminating the contract, I'd make sure that I first obtained good legal advice.

If it was me and I was aware of the situation I'd have gained that advice long before the outcome of the trial so I knew my options immediately after the verdict wether that was guilty or not guilty.

Having a good knowledge of the court system and the fact the judge has deferred sentencing until 4th December generally means he/she will have requested background reports be done on Calder as they may decide that the severity of the crime merits a prison term. If he/she felt it was a minor crime they would have dealt with the sentencing there and then so they aren't looking at this as a minor punch up outside a pub on a Saturday night. That in itself should indicate the severity of the assault.

If this person was a teacher, police officer, nurse etc would you be happy with them teaching your children upholding the law or treating your wounds at your most vulnerable? They are all dismissed, sacked when these things happen. ALSO suspended before a court case starts. He is in a position where he is a role model to many youngsters and as such should hold himself above the rest of us. He has brought the club into disrepute by a horrendous despicable behaviour and that is sufficient to terminate his contract. And sorry but I cannot support a person who  chooses to beat a woman to the extent he did. Your views on crime is amazing have you ever being the victim of crime? People lose their jobs everyday for drink driving, having traces of drugs in their system etc etc. Why should he be different. 

28 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

Absolutely nobody is giving any hint that Calder's behaviour is acceptable.  Absolutely nobody is saying  that footballers should be treated more favourably than anyone else or that better players should be treated more favourably still.  What some people are clearly saying is that footballers should be treated far less favourably than the rest of us.

Your prejudice on this matter is clear when you say the attack was without provocation.  How do you know that?  Were you in the courtroom and did you hear Calder admit there was no provocation?  Of course, provocation does not excuse his actions, but it may explain why he flipped.

You talk of community values, but one important value in a community is to support the rehabilitation of offenders.  The courts will punish him as part of the due legal process but you seem to feel he should also be punished by the club and the community and thrown out of his chosen career.  He needs to accept the punishment of the courts, but what purpose does it then serve to punish him for the rest of his life?  I would hope and expect that Calder is utterly ashamed at what he has done and is now full of remorse.  The responsibility of a caring society is to support people who have offended and try and ensure they don't offend again.  People who are given a second chance are often the very ones who then become very active themselves in supporting community projects, often atoning for their own wrongs many times over.

That is why I don't think the club should make any rushed decisions here. I don't think it is in anybody's interests to kick Calder out Professional Football.  It may well be that it is best if he plies his trade elsewhere, but that is a decision for the club in the light of all the facts.

The CPS 

43 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

There is absolutely nothing in what I wrote which in any way condones what Calder did.  What we shouldn't do, however, is rush to judgements when we don't know all the facts.  From the report, the facts are clearly not as clear cut as your summary would suggest.  In fact, the report paints a rather bizarre picture and there are clearly gaps which may have a bearing and which presumably will be known to the courts and will be taken into account in sentencing.

Yes he knew the victim.  He dropped her off at her car.  She then, for some reason or by accident drove her car into his.  The report doesn't say whether this incident happened at the point where he dropped her off or at some later point after they had both driven off.  The report says that following the collision they agreed to drive to a pub car park.  That means that immediately after the collision they must have had a discussion.  One can imagine he was pretty annoyed  but there is no suggestion that he was in any way threatening to her at that point, indeed, had he been, then why would she have agreed to drive to a pub car park?  There is no information in the report which says whether they got out of the cars at the point of collision - perhaps they spoke on their mobiles and agreed to drive to the car park and look at any damage there.  

At the car park Calder punched her through her car window.  When she got out of the car he is reported to have hit her with a shoe / thrown a shoe at her.  What shoe?  Did he stop to take off one of his own shoes to hit her?  Or perhaps when he went to talk to her, she tried to hit him with her shoe?  After all, many women will remove high heeled shoes for driving.  He claimed he was acting in self defence so presumably he told the court what he was claiming he was defending himself from, but that is not reported.  Did she try to hit him with the shoe which perhaps he took off her and later threw back at her. Did she say something to provoke him?  What caused him to lose the plot?  We simply don't know the answers to any of these questions.

Let's be clear.  None of the unknowns I have outlined can possibly excuse Calder's behaviour, but they may help explain it and may influence the sentencing decision.  I would expect the club will have far more  detail about the incident than we will ever know.  I hope the club will make a statement tomorrow but I would also expect them not to rush to making any decisions other than a suspension until after sentencing.

The CPS prosecutor stated the high quality CCTV showed he was not acting in self defence and that is was a sustained assault. The report says they drove to a pub car park it does not mention any conversation to agree they drive there. Irrespective of anything said it does not justify the level of violence he committed towards a female. Why are you trying to find an excuse for his horrendous behaviour? Nothing can justify a male beating a female to the point she has sustained fractures, lacerations and bruising in this case. It doesn't matter what shoe he used, he hit her with it. She would have been completley justified if she had tried to hit him with it after being punched several times through her car window. The club will have the same information we do as it has been presented in evidence in court it is available for any member of the public to access.

5 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

Fans are not employees of the club and the club does not have to have regard to employment law when dealing with fans.

What s more, a fan would not be disciplined by the club in any way for a criminal offence wholly unconnected to the football. Your comparison is completely flawed.

So no company has never come out and issued a statement when they have an employee in a public eye position. Hmmmmmm let me think of yes Ronaldo.

11 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

I’m absolutely gutted by this news. He’s been terrific this season but a moment of utter madness has put his career in real jeopardy. It’s a huge blow to the club and to him personally, but one can’t imagine how terrifying it must have been for the young woman being attacked like that by an out of control young man. 

Personally I don’t think one moment of madness should end a promising career.  This is a very serious incident but other players have done worse and resumed careers.  I would agree that suspension until sentencing is an appropriate immediate course of action and then the club will need to decide what to do in the light of the sentencing decision. 

This was not a moment of madness. He knew the victim. He then drove to a car park got out of his car walked over to hers leaned through the window punched her several times stopped allowed her to get out then continued to assault her by kicking and hitting her with a shoe causing her to sustain lacerations, bruising and a fractured thumb. That is not a moment of madness he had ample time to consider what he was doing. To say other players have done worse and trying to condon an assault by a physically fit male on a female is not acceptable in my view. 

15 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

I don't always agree with the current regime but I think that the club are right to wait until the sentencing before finalising their position.

However, having pled guilty to such conduct, I do think that he should be suspended in the meantime.

He peld not guilty and submitted a defence of self defence to which the cctv found to be a lie as it showed a sustained and unprovoked attack. Guilt has been proved sentencing is irrelevant. Hence there was a court case. Had he pled guilty there would have been no trial. Club need to act immediately.

33 minutes ago, Scotty said:

The club were 1000% correct not to say anything to this point. Its a legal and personnel matter concerning one of their employees. Even now they are limited in what they can and should say and I would not expect anything said until the sentencing date. There is no evidence to say when they became aware of things but certainly before this week I would guess ! 

Its my opinion - for what its worth - the player has to be suspended by the club until the sentencing date and any employment repercussions are then put in place.   

I agree that they should have said nothing until court case but they should have been prepared for this outcome. One rule for players and another for fans? They should have had a pre prepared statement. They are quick enough to issue statements on fan behaviour.

1 minute ago, Fraz said:

Not acceptable behaviour at all. He has to go. I don't blame the club for not saying anything on this up to this point as he hadn't been found guilty of anything. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-46130398 

Thanks for putting link in I couldn't get it to share into my original post.

Who else thinks there will now be a communication black out from club. They must have known about this since May.

Agree he turned a corner in his ability recently but has thrown it all away. I cannot support a person who has acted in this way. 

See on BBC news riccardo has been found guilty of beating up a woman in brimingham after her car hit his. Reading the details of his sustained assault on a female this is totally unacceptable behaviour from one of our players while he was in our employment. He is due to be sentenced on 4th december

We have only had 3, 2-2 draws 2, 1-1 draws and 4, 0-0 draws so not sure where the silly defensive errors you pertain to are coming from. It is pure lack of goals that are causing us not to win matches. I wouldn't muck about with the defence they have only conceded 10 goals this season. Give Oakley a chance at a run of games with the team from Saturday see what happens. The 4 0-0 draws only needed one goal to win same with the 1-1 draws so we don't need to be going and scoring 3 to win games. 

The county game showed who we need to play regularly and who we don't.

1 hour ago, Kingsmills said:

An up to date and properly functioning website is a basic requirement for any business of any kind these days yet our club with a seven figure turnover has not had one for months.

Surely it not unreasonable for someone at the club, perhaps the CEO who has been in post for months now, to explain why not.

Completely agree. We keep getting told the New board members have all these skills and abilities. Still haven't seen anything from them and their respective expertise. They have been in place for a good period of time now but basic things for fan and commercial engagement are still not working. What is going on?

5 minutes ago, KennySim93 said:

Can't score with an arm so doesn't matter if that's offside or not.

Fine but his leg is still offside.

34 minutes ago, RiG said:

The through ball for the County second was perfectly timed as was the run by Mckay. He's clearly onside.

Sorry that doesnt prove he was onside. He looks to already be a leg and arm past coll and has the ball being struck yet? Zooming in he looks offside.

10 hours ago, old caley girl said:

Shes totally useless. Had the misfortune to listen to her on the radio last week too. She is a waste of a wage imho 

I managed to contact her last time and pointed out the error but it was never fixed. I've heard her do a report on BBC score and she sounded clueless.

Just been reading the BBC sport report on the game today and the picture supplied of Rooney celebrating in front of the away supporters evident by the old man giving him the v in the stand and all the folk wearing county tops etc. This is the caption from eilidh davies the reporter. "Shaun Rooney celebrates his goal in front of the home support". Does this girl not understand football? The last report she did in dingwall at the last derby said the game was being played in Inverness. Not only that but reading further down her report we have apparently fallen down the table to 6th rather than staying 5th. Is the BBC just not giving a toss about football north of perth and hiring 15 year olds to do the reports on a national news site?

2 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

One of our most entertaining and positive performances of the season and some still take the opportunity to snipe at the latest scapegoat. Can you not be just a little more positive ?

Is no one allowed to have an opinion? 

5 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

A huge catchment area largely populated by sheep and deer.

Yes that is true and the odd caravan.

8 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

A hugely entertaining game where we outplayed our opponents who were packed with Premiership players earning twice what our players are on or more. How on earth did Doran miss that chance towards the end ?

Anyway, loads of positives to take from today. The only negative being that the crowd was two thousand fewer than attended the first derby of the season in Dingwall.

If the good folk of Inverness want to retain full time football they really need to support the club with more enthusiasm.

No lack of support and enthusiasm though from those who were there especially those in the North Stand outsigning the visitors at the opposite end.

Onwards and upwards.

Ross county has a far bigger catchment area to gain fans from. Inverness is mainly just Inverness. I wouldn't say their team was full of premiership players as some of them have been relegated from that division.

Starting 11 for the visiting

: Fox, Fraser, Kelly, Draper, Lindsay, McKay, Vigurs, Mullin, Watson, Keillor-Dunne, Cowie #HighlandDerby