CaleyP

dale is only one year younger alex. Ok son. I'm not here to destroy your impressions on Iain..........just to put my view across. I know alex it's just banter, it's just i played football myself in the sfl and i know how good vigurs is and also how good dale is, i played against iain and i can tell you he is one of the best midfielders i have ever played against. dale just doesn't come close.

dale is only one year younger alex.

Alex did you see dale play in the 3rd division, i did quite a lot, for me he looked like he possibly found his level there as he wasn't that great. being there on loan from a SPL club he should have coasted that level as did zander and vigurs(at age 15) but Dale didn't. he isn't going to cut it any higher i'm sorry to say, so it's just wishful thinking to think he is a going to do a job for us in midfield. we won't be coming back up if that is the quality of player we will be playing. CaleyP I feel sorry for you taking in Elgin on a regular basis, surely you can find something better to do with your time. I took the time to go through to Elgin and caught a game with Dale Gillespie and Andy McNulty taking part. For Dale to have made an impression was pretty ny impossible, the majority of the Elgin players were truly awful and didn't even possess the the most basic footballing skills and quite frankly didn't care one little bit. I am led to believe half the squad were based in the central belt and didn't train at all and the north based players didn't exactly commit themselves either with on one occasion only three first team players showing up and that three included Dale and Andy. Liam Keogh had the right idea, persuaded to pull on his boots again and signing at the same time as Dale in January he walked away after two games having realised just how bad the Elgin squad was, the ICT players didn't have that luxury and had to stick it out. Thankfully with the ICT squad being pared down to the bare minimum will mean non of our youngsters will have to endure a loan spell at Elgin, a complete waste of time. Another season like that and they will go back into the Highland league or fold completely. haha well your probably right. I know what your saying but i still maintain that a good player will shine where ever he is, such as touch and passing will stand out, however, Dales touch and passing was just as bad as the rest of the teams. you can still spot quality if the player posseses it no matter who he is playing for and with. CaleyP, I'd love you to be right. Iain has the skill to be a success, but only on one side of the pitch. Dale has the good fortune of being two footed. If he's coached right he will be as good, if not better. Alex i'd love for Dale to be a success but he isn't in the same league as iain, even dale would admit that, trust me he would.

Alex did you see dale play in the 3rd division, i did quite a lot, for me he looked like he possibly found his level there as he wasn't that great. being there on loan from a SPL club he should have coasted that level as did zander and vigurs(at age 15) but Dale didn't. he isn't going to cut it any higher i'm sorry to say, so it's just wishful thinking to think he is a going to do a job for us in midfield. we won't be coming back up if that is the quality of player we will be playing. CaleyP I feel sorry for you taking in Elgin on a regular basis, surely you can find something better to do with your time. I took the time to go through to Elgin and caught a game with Dale Gillespie and Andy McNulty taking part. For Dale to have made an impression was pretty ny impossible, the majority of the Elgin players were truly awful and didn't even possess the the most basic footballing skills and quite frankly didn't care one little bit. I am led to believe half the squad were based in the central belt and didn't train at all and the north based players didn't exactly commit themselves either with on one occasion only three first team players showing up and that three included Dale and Andy. Liam Keogh had the right idea, persuaded to pull on his boots again and signing at the same time as Dale in January he walked away after two games having realised just how bad the Elgin squad was, the ICT players didn't have that luxury and had to stick it out. Thankfully with the ICT squad being pared down to the bare minimum will mean non of our youngsters will have to endure a loan spell at Elgin, a complete waste of time. Another season like that and they will go back into the Highland league or fold completely. haha well your probably right. I know what your saying but i still maintain that a good player will shine where ever he is, such as touch and passing will stand out, however, Dales touch and passing was just as bad as the rest of the teams. you can still spot quality if the player posseses it no matter who he is playing for and with.

Alex did you see dale play in the 3rd division, i did quite a lot, for me he looked like he possibly found his level there as he wasn't that great. being there on loan from a SPL club he should have coasted that level as did zander and vigurs(at age 15) but Dale didn't. he isn't going to cut it any higher i'm sorry to say, so it's just wishful thinking to think he is a going to do a job for us in midfield. we won't be coming back up if that is the quality of player we will be playing. Hardly a good example considering the diabolical season Elgin have had. i agree how diabolical their season was but you would think that would make him stand out more against poorer players, however, that didn't happen. anyway we'll see.

Alex did you see dale play in the 3rd division, i did quite a lot, for me he looked like he possibly found his level there as he wasn't that great. being there on loan from a SPL club he should have coasted that level as did zander and vigurs(at age 15) but Dale didn't. he isn't going to cut it any higher i'm sorry to say, so it's just wishful thinking to think he is a going to do a job for us in midfield. we won't be coming back up if that is the quality of player we will be playing.

Tobe fair, it was hard for any Elgin to stand out as the level of football they played last season was very poor. The midfield were often missed out when in possesion as it was route 1 football. Still agree with you, he isn't better than Vigurs but i don't think he should be judged by the way he played in that shocking side. i understand that but you can only judge a player on what you see, Dale i hope can rise to the level required, however, he didn't really show much in a division that technically he should have coasted ( zander had no problem standing out in that league).

hahahahahahahahahahahaha comment of the day....you having a laugh, even dale himself would laugh at that. as a much as i like dale as a person he did pretty bad in the third division and with no appearances in the spl, how can you say that. if he can't stand out in the third division he aint gonna stand out any higher, vigurs was ripping that league apart when he was 15....hahaha WOW.

I think he should have been given at least one chance in a match situation. Johnboy i completely agree with you. stick to your opinion, don't let anyone tell you different. alex as much as i agree with you most of the time, you are now telling someone to go away because they have a different opinion, you have always maintained that people have the right to their own opinion, however, you seem to be telling johnboy to go away due to his difference of opinion to yours. a bit hypocritical i think.

alex i understand where your coming from but i know the boy and all about his ability, and so do a lot of managers in the SPL and further a field, he'll be ok. he played half a season under brew (14 starts, 7 sub app, 2 goals) and showed a lot of people what he can do, obviously that was enough to get people on his side. you can't knock that, noone can. he'll be a great player. it's just a shame it won't be for ICT...

i think that keeping roy might be quite important now, as i don't think we are going to attract any real quality of players now we are down. next season i fear we will become a more head down and battle team, i don't think there will be too much football played by us next season. foran, kerr and morais are most likely to move on so we can say goodbye to having any ball players. roy might turn out to be one of our better footballers next season.

There's the words of a man who's worried that Butcher will mastermind taking 12 points off his team next season caleyd are the majority of people (pretty much everyone) that has responded to vigurs not been resigned as wrong and you are correct. the fact is the majority of people on this forum think we should have kept him. we must all be crazy because you dont agree.

you do realise imrie is on over a 1000 a week, iain was asking for half of that? so because imrie wasn't good enough to be a player at 19 and had to work on a building site that makes him different how?????? stop talking noise. Ahhh - but he was good enough to be a player. He rose up through Junior Football, before being spotted by Clyde! He's a far more established and battle hardy player. We went down, largely, to the ineptitude of our Manager in Dec and Jan! Not because of our wage structure! trust me vigurs will go far further than dougie 1st division imrie.

well then we will never keep SPL status, we cant play with the big boys if we are'nt going to pay wages...full stop. So the last 5 years is just a figment of our imagination? We might not be "mixing it with the big boys", but we've done OK and our relegation is (IMO) not directly attributable to the level of wages we've been paying. I'd rather a season or two in the SFL and still have a club in a few years than the club bankrupt themselves in the next 12 months by paying wages they can't afford.....and that's where you can stick your full stop!!! cant afford an extra 50 pound a week, aye good one. if the club distributed the wages more efficiently then we would be able to afford better players. a season or two, haha you make me laugh, try a bit more than that. it's not rocket science, we went down because we didnt have the players to keep us up, we dropped players we cant replace, you will have to pay more than 400 a week to get a better player than vigurs. you didnt think about that did you. there's your full stop. Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda........(The last words of a fool)

well then we will never keep SPL status, we cant play with the big boys if we are'nt going to pay wages...full stop. So the last 5 years is just a figment of our imagination? We might not be "mixing it with the big boys", but we've done OK and our relegation is (IMO) not directly attributable to the level of wages we've been paying. I'd rather a season or two in the SFL and still have a club in a few years than the club bankrupt themselves in the next 12 months by paying wages they can't afford.....and that's where you can stick your full stop!!! cant afford an extra 50 pound a week, aye good one. if the club distributed the wages more efficiently then we would be able to afford better players. a season or two, haha you make me laugh, try a bit more than that. it's not rocket science, we went down because we didnt have the players to keep us up, we dropped players we cant replace, you will have to pay more than 400 a week to get a better player than vigurs. you didnt think about that did you. there's your full stop.

well then we will never keep SPL status, we cant play with the big boys if we are'nt going to pay wages...full stop.

you do realise imrie is on over a 1000 a week, iain was asking for half of that? so because imrie wasn't good enough to be a player at 19 and had to work on a building site that makes him different how?????? stop talking noise.

I suspect all Vigurs was hoping for was a chance to show Butcher what he was capable of... You know... just like Djebi-Zadi.. Or perhaps hoping to squeeze more money out of the Club...a la Barrowman! Butcher is no Brewster, he won't be mucked about! All the other teams have had 3 weeks of, our season effectively starts on 25th July. We need quick decisive strong actions from our management! It might seems harsh, but I agree with Don, seems a very positive sign that TB intends to stay, and needs players that can battle, play "streetwise" football, and get us some good results - fast! We have to show SFL1 respect - and our guys have to adapt and learn how to play in it! Otherwise, before we know it. Dundee etc will go flying off and we'll be left sitting there with another uphill battle! Mrs PB or perhaps to make enough money to pay rent and buy food. stop talking about things you don't know anything about. the poor lad was the one getting mucked about, he was offered pennies, all he wanted was enough to get by on, don't you bad mouth someone you don't know. CaleyP, I can understand some of what your saying but ?350 a week for a 21 year old is a lot of money. There are people out there who bring up families on that sort of wage. There are people working a 40 hour week for ?6 an hour. And those are people with a damn sight more experience than Mr Vigurs. That is the real world we live in. it doesn't really matter what his age was, he still has bills and food and living expenses to pay, the same as everyone else. he has a talent and is a professional footballer and he should be rewarded fairly for that talent, if these people earning ?6 an hour had the same talent they also would be looking for fair reward. you also have to remember that football is a very short career, you are signing a contract that could last three years here so you need to get the best deal you can so the boy can afford a house and a family if he pleases, or does he not deserve this? just remember iain has worked very hard to get where he is now and noone can take that away from him, don't knock the kid because of age. we could go on about what people have and don't have all day but the lad is in a industry where he needs to get the best deals he can as it is a short lived career. you would do the same.

I suspect all Vigurs was hoping for was a chance to show Butcher what he was capable of... You know... just like Djebi-Zadi.. Or perhaps hoping to squeeze more money out of the Club...a la Barrowman! Butcher is no Brewster, he won't be mucked about! All the other teams have had 3 weeks of, our season effectively starts on 25th July. We need quick decisive strong actions from our management! It might seems harsh, but I agree with Don, seems a very positive sign that TB intends to stay, and needs players that can battle, play "streetwise" football, and get us some good results - fast! We have to show SFL1 respect - and our guys have to adapt and learn how to play in it! Otherwise, before we know it. Dundee etc will go flying off and we'll be left sitting there with another uphill battle! Mrs PB or perhaps to make enough money to pay rent and buy food. stop talking about things you don't know anything about. the poor lad was the one getting mucked about, he was offered pennies, all he wanted was enough to get by on, don't you bad mouth someone you don't know.

he didnt sign it as he wouldn't be able to afford accomodation with what he was offered, he would have literally made more working at tesco's, so get you facts correct before making assumptions. they offered him less than 350 a week.

no but maybe i should be. yeah he found it very frustrating as he felt he had a lot to offer the team in helping them stay up. the boy just wasn't given a chance to prove his worth under butcher. very sad indeed. there are a lot of people making assumptions about his attitude but i can tell you he has a fantastic attitude and just loves to play football.

That's not quite what you said in your 1st post on here... this was a offer from brew before christmas im talking about. butcher offered him nothing and never indicated he would do either.. releasing vigurs+wood could be premature,what happens if morais,kerr+foran all dont sign contracts,just becasue there being offered it doesnt mean they,ll sign,would of been better waiting seeing what they do 1st But not really very fair on the players concerned leaving them hanging on Might have been better to accept the contract offered before Christmas though considering the current economic climate. yeah but when have you ever heard of a player accepting the first offer? he had every right to ask for a wee bit more, any player/person would.

likewise, i do like McBain but i would choose a 20 year old with lots of potential over a 34 year old who is near the end of his career. thats why im saying its short sighted. logical really when you think about it.

Thanks for clearing up that mis-understanding. no probs. :tonguecheek:

That's not quite what you said in your 1st post on here... sorry this was a offer from brew before christmas im talking about. butcher offered him nothing and never indicated he would do either..all offers were taken off the table when butcher came in.