CaleyP

How can anyone hate Granty, he is one of the nicest guys ever, and football wise i think this season he has improved a lot, I also think he has been one of our better performers this season.

gordyfromsneck. I know pretty much 90% of the caley squad as friends and that included vigurs when he was there. I would like to point out that he is a very nice laid back guy and what you are saying about him is completely un called for, especially as you clearly don't know him, because if you did you would not be saying those things. You should also know that you shouldn't believe everything you read in the papers. Please if you can refrain from personal attacks. One thing you should know also, vigurs was released by ICT before this incident and to date has a clean record and still does until proven otherwise.

First of all I just want to say well done to the lads today, it seems butcher being away all week with scotland helped. ICTFCkev you mean just like you write off all his mistakes because he is terry butcher....and you talk about sense. If you actually read and understood my last comment, you would realise that i had doubts about butcher when he arrived, which is fair enough considering his bad record, then my doubts grew more when we failed to stay up after securing a healthy gap between the bottom side and us, but butcher then decided he was going to change the team, dropping paramount players such as CB Pavel and Esson who were both brilliant and then he put players into positions they hadn't played all season...changing formations etc. Go on explain that to me, or is that just excusable?

I agree. What happened to postive thinking on this forum? we lose one game and some people are calling for butchers head, get a grip!! I haven't all a sudden starting slating butcher, if you can be bothered which im sure you probably can't, but if you can be you will see that from the very beginning i have had no faith in butcher, i have seen what happens to teams when he takes them over. i started really having doubs last season when it appeared we were looking like staying up and all we needed to do is play a solid team with no stupid tactics or formation team selection but what did butcher do...he dropped pavel, esson etc, the guy is useless. I am sorry if this p*isses some people off but i have no faith in butcher and probably never will. One thing though to the people who just want to ignore the fact of how bad butcher is, you keep believing butcher and you 'll keep finding yourself wanting. the proof is in the pudding, and there's certainly been no proof of butcher been any good.

I agree with you when you say Zadi is a confidence player and when all is going well he is exciting to watch, however, would you not agree to be a successful footballer you need to be able to perform well when the going gets tough and things aren't going well for the team. I like Zadi but when we play him there is a risk and a good chance that something could horribly go wrong.

I reckon they possibly just had very different personalities. It's such a shame as we could really use a player like vigurs now. Butcher definitely made a mistake there, however, if they didn't see eye to eye it was easier for butcher just to get rid of him which he did, but in fairness if there was tension there maybe it was better to part. I heard from one of the players that butcher used vigurs and woody as motivation before the game against c*unty, saying that they weren't good enough and to go out show them how it's done. You don't get awards for being a poor player do you. vigurs, blackie, cowie and rankin in my eyes will always be the classiest players we've ever had so far. It's such a shame they are no longer here.

:025: :025: :025: I dont beleve hes done a good job. A good job would have been fighting relegation bravely. And people will say he did that. but no. If we picked up a few points but still got relegated then at least we tried. BUT We were off the bottom and looking good to stay up. Butchers tactics got us relegated and thats the end of it. He hasnt impressed me enough but as DC said, i will also give him to christmas. If we are not in a good position, he can GTF! I agree, but give him 6weeks. If we wait to christmas, it'll be a rush to get a replacement for the second half of the season. I can't help but feel people are blinded by the legend that was and is terry butcher the PLAYER, when are people gonna realise that's what your supporting. butcher was a legend football PLAYER but as a manager unfortunately for him and us he just doesn't cut it. He hasn't cut it as a manager since the day he started managing. The people who need to get realistic are the ones who think suddenly butcher is going to turn into this great manager, well miracles are rare so i doubt that will be happening. Proof is in the stats and stats are facts, his stats are awful for a reason....because he is a bad manager. I find it funny that people that ignore and deny the stats and facts call us crazy for following them and clearly seeing butcher is no good. it's laughable. Bring back Robbo.

I personally think we need to learn from past mistakes. One thing i notice CaleyD, you say butcher needs more time, however, you say we took to long before we replaced brew, i think there is problem here with butcher and it would be nice if we address it now, have a little bit of foresight this time, otherwise we're just gonna find ourselves saying the same thing as we did with brew, are we just gonna do the same with butcher....i really think we're on that path again. Butcher has had enough time to prove he is a capable manager and i have yet to see that. I really dont think we should wait until christmas this time like we did with brew, i think if things weren't to improve in the next month to 6 weeks then the club should really consider doing something about it. Also I would like to point out when applying to do a certain job, how you perform in that job in the past is paramount, especially in this type of job, so of course his record is important. You can't just ignore his bad record because it clearly doesn't help with your view point, i bet you would be bringing up his past stats as manager if they were good.

I was always a huge fan of vigurs, thought he had huge potential, much more than butcher anyway. Anyway the young lad that didn't cut it for us has just been awarded the SFL young player of the month.

I guess that makes me feel a little better knowing that other people are seeing this happening too.

I wouldn't be surprised if duff was next to go. Butcher clearly can't see what talent is, if his signing are anything to go by. i can honestly say [Abuse removed] I have no faith in the guy whatsoever. he has completely scrapped all the young talent the club did so well to produce..ie Vigurs, Wood, Zander, Dale etc. By the time butcher is finished he'll have a bunch of lads from down south who have no connection or knowledge of the club and they'll probably be sh*t just like the lads he's already brought in bar Cox (who i actually do think is good). i could understand why butcher would get rid of these guys if he was replacing them with better players but he isn't. With blackie, cowie, hasting, fraser, vigurs, wood, zander, dale etc all gone, and now Duncan, Duff and mcbain not getting a look in.....it just seems like butcher has ripped the heart out of the team. AM I THE ONLY PERSON THAT IS SEEING THIS???? These are the players that helped us achieve good things.

How can you possibly make that call, so early in the season ?? Surely you cannot judge them on pre-season and a few competitive matches. Most of them are not even 100% match fit yet..!! We have played 8 competitive games, and over 5 pre season games. that is plenty and if the players are not 100% fit after that many games and a pre season then that would be very worrying. how games do you think it takes?? The only player that comes close to the quality that we let leave is Cox. the rest aren't showing much at all and simply because they aren't as good.

yeah good luck dale. you will be fine mate, just keep your head up.

the point here is butcher has let these guys go and replaced them. the worrying thing is, he has replaced them with players who aren't as good as those who were allowed to leave.

I understand where your coming from, I guess it's just easier to get on with it and try look forward. I just try not to use if's and but's because they can drive you crazy thinking about it. anyway i wasn't having a go just in case you thought i was. cheers

makes you wonder doesn't it?

Just if's and but's. what if county had scored that shot they had cleared of line to make 2-0 them before half time. what if county just hadn't scored any of their chances and we scored all of ours....there's just no point going through them....pointless.

this is such a strange one, i really can't comment on golly as i haven't seen him play since he was with us. i guess we'll have to wait and see what happens next. the one strange thing is that he wasn't getting a game for county but butcher clearly has plans for him. i wonder how though......when would have butcher seen golly play in the last couple of years to pass judgment???

They see last season's top goal scorer and he also reacts to chants etc. Good with the fans :P Thats hilarious!! Think he scored 6 last season. Thats a big total to be proud off eh?!!! Considering the amount of start etc yea he still ended up the top scorer. He needs to get the manager to have a bit of confidence in him and he will do good. If you look at his history he is the most experience player along with Foran . He has played with Stoke City , played in League 1 and League 2 and have international experience from under 17 - 21 . You just dont become a bad player overnight - i think himself and Foran would be good up front together. Richie if the type of player that likes to drift but Rooney will get into the box . i agree he just needs confidence, a player without can be a completely different player to that who has. Rooney i think is a good player, butcher needs to give the guy a run of games to give him a chance of getting his confidence up.

5 years in the SPL, what's that like.....? Oh you would have no idea would you! Catch yourself on snowball, County were a mediocre team yesterday, that managed to beat a shockingly bad ICT. Better team on the day, not the better team overall, which is why you take so much joy from the result. What's County's greatest achievement? Challenge Cup Win? A decent result against their nemesis in a local derby? Two words.... Bigger......Picture! :P Based on yesterdays performance, (which is no basis at all, for a league where we have to play each other a further 3 times!), County don't look like they'll be storming the league either. With your Manager's record of dressing room discord you'll be damn lucky.......... You've got bragging rights till November, nothing more. The fact that you're so excited by this shows how much you've missed us for the past five years! ;) See you at the next Derby where the see-saw that is Scottish football may well humble you! :huh: this is why we lost, because we think we are better than teams like county, well we're in the 1st division just like them, we haven't proved yet that we are a better team, so can everybody please get rid of this atitude arrogance that has suddenly appeared out nowhere since we got relegated to the 1st division. talking about what we have done doesn't make us a good team now. having respect, trying our best and doing all we can to win games is what we need. if we carry on the way we are we are going to be the laughing stock.

I feel sorry for the lad, butcher has drafted him to play at a level that he is not good enough to play at. on saturday he was ripped apart by far better players in my opinion and so was cox, however, cox i do think has potential, i like him as a player but they were better. as for him being a replacement to black...well that's just wishful thinking i think for now. back to stratford, in my opinion i blame butcher, he should know better than to sign someone who is completely unknown, yes it looks good if it works out but most of the time it doesn't. the actual fact is stratford just isn't good enough, not at this level anyway. we want to win this league, how are we going to do that if the players aren't good enough. county's midfield were far superior to our own and i dont think that was just our midfield having a bad day, they were just out classed by better players. I hope butcher will see this and do something about it but i very much doubt it.

Please stop comparing us to man utd and butcher to alex ferguson....you just sound stupid. butcher's record is horrible, you must be his best mate or even butcher himself to say the things your saying.

aye that's probably what every other team said until they fired him. he sucks, l think someone has said it and that is he talks a good game but plays a sh*t one. i've said this from the beginning, I dont think he is any good. him and MM are clueless and the only consistancy the pair have is being fired.

well we were ***** today, county were by far the better team. cox was the only one who looks like he is ood enough to be playing. well i said it and it happened, we let one of our best prospects go and he came back to haunt us...vigurs! the replacement players for the likes of vigurs blackie etc are nowhere near their class...nowhere near, if we want promotion then we need to sign about 5 new players...dont think thats gonna happen.

Completely agree.