CaleyD

Davie, I was posting as a fan, not as a Senior Mod of the forum....I do make it very clear when I put that hat on. I may not have been at the Aberdeen game, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed an opinion, and it doesn't mean I'm not sick to the back teeth of the same few going out of their way to be troublesome and who get a rise out of winding up the Stewards. I stood outside the pub in Perth earlier in the season and listened whilst they were all joking about it and having bets to see which of them was going to be first to be ejected from that game!!! If it was one or two incidents at one or two grounds and not the same guys week in week out then you could argue an isolated incident...but it's not. What's more, I sat in a meeting with some of the young lads not all that long ago and backed them to the hilt...how much of a feckin mug was I, the very next away game and they're being ejected again and it was entirely their own fault. Maybe if parents didn't let their kids go to (or take them too) games and allow them get pissed up beforehand then it might help a bit. I've seen people ask these guys quite politely to tone down and all they get in return is the abuse and filth they were asked to desist from being directed at them instead...I've seen stewards try to deal with the issue with a soft touch and get the same. I don't think anyone is asking for, or expecting, people to sit quietly the whole game or to not swear (I'm as guilty as the next of the odd expletive or outburst). What they are saying is don't go looking for trouble or make it worse by acting like a twat. I don't condone Stewards speaking to fans with anything other than a civil tongue, and to be honest, they should be trained/expected to remain civil regardless of what is coming at them....but that's easier said than done and it's not all that surprising when stewards end up giving as good as they get. We've all been there, in a situation where we're so riled up that the next person that comes along, regardless of who or how polite they are ends up coping an earful. Getting in the face of someone you have already identified as being unreasonable and trying to dictate rules or logic to them (politely or otherwise) is fruitless in these situations....and that works two ways. Unfortunately for the fans, the only person with the power to remove someone from the situation is the steward and they're not going to remove themselves. It's not right, not by a long shot, but by retaliating you are only fanning the flames and making the situation worse. What's more, we all know that when you have a group partaking of an activity that people have already been asked to refrain from, they are going to move in and pick off either the ring leaders, the easy targets or the silly wee lad who's trying to make a name for himself among his peers and doesn't know when to give it up for his own good. If you're going to be a smart arse and play these kinds of games with authority figures (been there done that, still do on occasion) then you have to have the wherewithal to know when you've reached the line and it's time to pull back and let things cool off. Of course, if the idea is that you have a bet with your mates that you can be first one thrown out the door, then you're obviously not playing within any kind of rules. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the problem is unique to ICT, however the "But Mr, they were worse than us" line of defence is pathetic and childish. It's also obvious that trying to tackle the issue "on the ground" at games with stewards is not working (and never likely to), so why keep hitting your head against that brick wall? I've lost count of the number of times I've said it on here and conversations I've had with people where I've suggested that they take a different approach to it. Get the name/SAA Badge number of the Steward and report it...the Supporters Trust have offered/asked that fans do this via them if they feel they are not getting anywhere with other establishments. In fact, if fans (of all teams) were willing to start taking that kind of approach then we might actually start to get somewhere in terms of dealing with over zealous stewarding. However, so long as the continue to see steward baiting as some kind of sport and getting into bother at games then it's all pretty much a waste of time and effort. As I said above "Fly with the Crows, get shot with the Crows". It may not be right, fair or just...but it's something which holds true in every walk of life, not just at football matches. Even if you buy the argument that it's always the fault of the stewards, then is it not time that people realised they were losing the fight and started handling the situation in a different way? IMO, there's 3 or 4 guys who are the main issue. Remove them from the equation and I think the rest of these lads could easily go along to a game, have some great craic, even do a bit of standing and chanting/singing and, for the most part, never be bothered by more than a passing word from the stewards. After all, other groups within our support seem to manage it. Just so it's clear, that's my thoughts/opinions as a fan, not as a Senior Moderator or in any other capacity.

As I said, nothing new in seeing Munro do that. However, if it wasn't enough to earn him a contract before last night then why should it be enough to earn him a new contract this morning? It could, and has been, fairly argued that the decision to release him should never have been made in the first place (and I would agree), but to expect that decision to change on the outcome of one game is, IMO, folly.

Appreciate this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but here goes..... The problem is, Butcher can't go sacking players every week in order to get the best out of them....we'd need to start the season with a squad of 400 players for that plan to work. It's one thing to go out and deliver your best game when there's no pressure on you because you think your off or because you're angry at the decision and want to prove a point, but that kind of inspiration isn't going to exist before every game. It's also easy to shine when all around are doing the same and the result last night was a team effort and not down to any single man. I may not agree with the decision to release Munro, but I also fail to see what happened in last nights game that would give Butcher justification for changing it. Ok, so Munro showed a bit of character, remained professional and bagged a goal. Nothing new in that and, in the grand scheme of things, nothing has changed. The last thing we need is to develop/encourage a system where players think that all the need to do is play well in a game or two towards the end of the season to earn a contract.

You'd swear Butcher was standing in the background laughing in this shot....

Na

A piece of advice I was given by an old headmaster....."Fly with the Crows, get shot with the Crows"

No

If it's entirely the fault of all the different stewards and stewarding companies at all the grounds in the SPL then why is it the same few people who seem to be getting themselves thrown out at every game? If the stewarding was that bad everywhere then surely we'd have far more ejections spread across a far larger group of people? I've stuck up for people who have been ejected in the past where I felt stewarding was OTT and it was unnecessary, and there's little doubt that people who might otherwise not have been troubled by stewards are getting caught in the cross-fire at the moment....but it's all getting a bit out of hand and all that's going to happen is that the few will cause even more problems for the many as clubs start to clamp down on our support because we have some guys who are simply out to cause trouble. What's even more worrying is that they wear an ejection like some kind of badge of honour and are given justification by fans who are older and should be a little wiser with comments that suggest it's ok because the other side were doing it and they were worse than us....it's that kind of justification that's spread the problems faced by the OF down through the generations and whilst I would never put standing or general swearing into the same category as sectarianism and bigotry it is the thin end of the wedge.

It's ok to fear the worst....so long as you still hope for the best

Was the same ones it always is and to be honest, I'm surprised they've not been slapped with a ban....maybe it's what's needed....it would be totally justified, IMO, as they have had ample warning.

Butcher confirmed on STV that he activated his 1 year option, so yeah he's under contract.

Carling, the official beer of the Scotland team, are offering fans the chance to pull on a Scotland shirt and live out their dream of playing at Hampden Park. Full Article Here Looks like an interesting competition....... Regional 5-a-sides where the best are merged into elite regional 11-a-side squads who then go on to get professional training/coaching before heading off to the semi-finals and then on to the final at Hampden.

They're still playing for contracts....just not with us.

Details in opening post have been updated.

I was having a conversation with someone last night (non ICT supporter) and they pointed out to me that several times during our chat I had used the statement "could still do a job" in reference to guys we were releasing. The point he made was that is "doing A job" good enough and is "good enough" all we want to be as a team/club? Surely, he said, if the ambition is top six then what you need are players who "can do THE job" that is being set out before them and we should want more than to be just "good enough". I didn't entirely agree with him but we did have a long and interesting conversation about players and how being in an SPL team and having SPL experience, even for a few years, does not make them SPL quality and how our mantra of being better than the sum our parts is really only us trying to justify the fact that we were surviving with players who we perhaps knew deep down were never going to bring us anything more than the hope of SPL survival and occasionally flirt with the idea of making top six. Has this become so engrained in the ICT psyche that the players believe the same thing and was this the reason why they seemed to shut down and go a little off the boil once they were in a position where survival was all but guaranteed? In all honesty, the conversation did raise more questions than it answered, but it was interesting to get an external point of view/opinion from someone who is not an ICT fan but is a football fan living locally who keeps tabs on, and occasionally comes to watch, the team. Who knows, it may well be that Butcher has identified a problem and hasn't been able to put his finger on the reasons. We know he had those clear the air talks with the players not so long ago which didn't really seem to improve things on the pitch. Perhaps, not being able to get to the root of the issue, he feels the only option that remained open to him in dealing with it was to have a mass clear out. Maybe we'll never know, maybe there's no more for us to know than has been said. Being someone who doesn't like the "because I said so" style answer then it'll probably bug me for a bit longer before I can draw the line and really concentrate on looking forward to what's to come instead of what's past.

STV Interview - http://news.stv.tv/video/stv-news-at-six-north-20110503/ Starts about 15 minutes in.

Max of 4 loans from other Scottish teams....you can take in as many as you like from other associations with no age limit.

Rossco had a one year "option" that he could activate himself if he met certain criteria during the season...no idea exactly what that criteria was. Not what I would want to see, but it doesn't automatically guarantee that he will be here next season....just means he is under contract and the club would have to agree terms if they wanted to move him on (or get a fee if someone wanted to buy).

An honest and frank interview given by Butcher who seemed genuinely sorry that he was letting these guys go, but gave no apology because he feels it's what's needed to move the club forward. Doesn't make it any easier to swallow, especially for fans who have become used to a setup that has always had a backbone of players who we knew were honest, hard working and dedicated to the club. That aside, I think it says a lot about the fans opinions of Butcher that despite all the shock, anger and confusion we seem willing to hold off on the calls for his head and give him fair opportunity to show us what the plan is.....only one other ICT Manager who would ever have got away with the same thing, IMO. No doubt that this is the start of a new era for ICT, it had to happen some day and I guess this is that day. You'll not find me celebrating the departure of some of these guys, but I also see little point in fighting it. Time to embrace the future and hope (and man am I hoping) that Butcher has got it right.

Yes, and I'm sure we'll get a statement once he's spoken to all the players and each is aware of whether or not they will be offered new deals/still here next season. No win situation for Butcher...Do what's right for the player and tell them as soon as you can so they have more opportunity to look for something new or be selfish and tell them after the final whistle on the last day because it's what's best for the club. Either way, some will find fault with the timing. Keep in mind that much of the speculation in the press at this time of year comes from these very forums.

Butchers Armies?