CaleyD

As he said, he made it clear to Butcher that he would not be here long term, so it's not as if he deceived anyone when signing for us. One of the things that Butcher insists on (that wasn't done by some previous managers) is that anyone who wants to be a part of this team base themselves in the area. Innes would only have been allowed to spend time at home with his family one or two days a week...maybe a bit longer during the weeks where we never had a game...and that's a big ask of anyone. Would have been easy for him to have viewed his time here as being nothing more than a pay cheque but he's been committed, given his best and done a job for us and we should thank him for that. What's more, any time he's spoken to the press or given an interview he's always spoken highly of the club and how much he likes it here. Don't think he'll have any trouble getting himself a new deal with a club closer to home. In fact, with the exception of maybe the OF, Hearts and Aberdeen (due to location), he'd be a worthwhile signing for any of the rest of the SPL. Took him a couple of games to get settled here, but after that he was fairly dependable and hard working. Had his circumstances been different I would have had no issue with us signing him on a longer deal.

Thread closed. Whilst we have no problem with people voicing an opinion and making protest, this forum is not (and nor will we allow it to become) a place for organising and/or encouraging open and deliberate breach of the rules. If you wish to discuss this any further with the site moderators/operators then please do so via the Report function, we will not enter into any discussion or debate on this matter in the open forum and any threads attempting to do that will be closed and/or deleted.

From their website....... Looks pretty clear to me that they want to exclude them!!! Totally short sighted on their part as if they took the time to listen to the OF Fans and not the OF Media Machine then they would know that the OF fans are as against a 10 team SPL as the rest of us.....seems rather bizarre that they would be so quick to alienate such a large proportion of those they claim to be campaigning for.

Anyone else think that Foran and Doran would have been great names for a couple of Hobbits?

Talk of getting rid of any team is just nonsense, IMO. I don't have any particular fondness to one or other, but basing any campaign to improve the game in Scotland on trying to oust other teams is nonsense and only serves to detract from finding and implementing solutions that can and will work.....for everyone. I'm not saying we need the OF, or any team for that matter, in order to have a viable and entertaining league. I'm also not of the opinion that without them the game would face financial Armageddon. The problem is not (primarily) the teams themselves, it's the system that allows them to bleed the game dry and leave everyone else fighting over scraps, it's the system that is geared around promoting and sustaining a duopoly to the detriment of all others and unless you change the system then you can remove all the teams you like but nothing will change and others will just move in to fill the void and the problems continue.

I would agree with that, but the majority of press pedal it as "Scotlands Problem" or "Scotlands Shame" and just about every time there's a sign of trouble involving Celtic or Rangers it's immediately labelled Sectarianism and thrown into the same pot. Police and authorities are every bit as bad, even the latest summits they've had regarding the problem have come away saying that it's a widespread Scottish social issue, when the reality is that it's only a real social issue in, as you say, the west and predominantly Glasgow. Slightly off the main topic, but I find it rather bemusing that they can take a situation where fans spend a weekend beating the chit out of each other, families and whoever after a game of football....and say it's part of the problem with sectarianism!!! I've witnessed first hand, and in far more volatile places than Glasgow, the troubles that are born out of Sectarianism....including having a gun put to my head for helping someone in the street. Doesn't mean that I want to go around blaming every bad thing that happens in this country on Sectarianism. I don't deny that there's people capable of the things you say and justifying it (to themselves at least) through "the cause"....but it doesn't automatically follow that every crime committed against someone who follows a specific religion is a sectarian act. I may be wrong and when the people are responsible get caught we may well find out that it was a sectarian driven crime.....I'm just not convinced of that and as things stand I feel there's more to suggest it's not.

Ok, I should have been more specific and said they were both Northern Irish.

If we were to lose one of our keepers, and I think that's very possible, then there's far worse out there who could be brought in to fill the gap. Wouldn't see him getting a game ahead of Esson or Tuffey though, so he would be coming in as cover.

Of course he is the wronged party, but even when you're the "victim" you sometimes need to take a step back and ask yourself, why? I'm not saying he deserved it, but it's his inability to look at himself and see that the way he conducts himself might have played a part, that makes it hard for me to have any sympathy for him. As I said already, O'Neil never got anything like this kind of hassle when he was in the job but he was Irish and Catholic. If I accept for a moment that this was a purely sectarian act then why Lennon and not O'Neil? Would I be justified in saying that there must be something in the way Lennon has a habit of rubbing people up the wrong way that's pushed the person/people responsible over a line they haven't previously crossed? If so, does that not highlight that the event is not purely driven by sectarianism? That's the point I am trying to make here. Again, I'm not saying there's not a problem with sectarianism, I'm saying that you can't just lump it all under the one label. Whilst we continue to do that and don't deal with all the issues then the battle to stop it is going to remain an impossible one.

I would say she is an unfortunate victim that's caught in the cross-fire, likely because she is a high profile Celtic supporting figure who's personal/office address would be easily obtainable. The fact that these other people have been targeted does more to suggest that this is not a sectarian driven act and more likely to have been some disturbed individual with an unhealthy dislike of Lennon/Celtic as opposed to it being driven by any religious/political motives, IMO. It's far too easy to just scoop up any problems related to Rangers & Celtic, stick them in the sectarian pigeon hole, claim it's "Scotlands Problem" and expect everyone else to pick up the tab for sorting it out. I would suggest that it's those who are unwilling/unable to think for themselves and instead just blindly follow the easy story pedalled by the press that are the naive ones.

How do you square this theory with the sending of a letter bomb to Trish Godman MSP? In the context of my FULL post on the subject, no squaring is required.

I'm not saying Sectarianism doesn't exist or that Lennon and his family deserve what is happening. I'm just making the point that others have done the job under similar circumstance and not suffered the same fate (O'Neil) so their must be some other contributing factor.....and IMO that is the fact that Lennon is reaping what he's sowed his entire career and despite everything continues to cause trouble to this day.

There you go, because I dislike him then I must have an "agenda"....get over yourself, I dislike him because he was a thug on the park and he's continued to act like a thug from the sidelines. Having a clever lawyer in his corner and the support of the club when it comes to getting him off on technicalities despite him being guilty as sin does not change that fact. Yours is precisely the kind of thinking I am talking about when I say those around the guy are happy to play the "sectarian" card instead of facing up to the fact that the guy actively courts trouble in just about everything he says or does. It really doesn't matter a jot if he's the nicest bloke in the world behind closed doors, it's his public persona that gets him in to trouble and attracts the kind of nutter that might want to send him bullets and bombs. Whilst I think you would be hard pressed to paint him as an angel prior to his time at Celtic Park, you also have to bare in mind that he didn't have what I talk about above in terms of being surrounded by people willing to justify his actions or blame the trouble/controversy on "sectarianism"....it's the perfect smokescreen. I also don't think that it's a total coincidence that sectarian related issues with Rangers and Celtic, despite it looking like it was easing off for a couple of years, have flared up again whilst Lennon has been Manager. If he's going to go around blaming it for everything then it only serves to add fuel to the fire. One side thinks, because he tells them it is so, that the bile they spout has some kind of effect on him and his own side ramp up their part in it to counteract it or through some perverted line of thinking "even things up" because that is seen as being ok so long as you can point the fingers at the others and say they are worse. FWIW I think Rangers are just as guilty of using the sectarian excuse for things where it's not the real issue. Both clubs may do it slightly differently, but they are as bad as each other.

They'll be dancing in the streets of Dunfermline tonight!!! And C*unty losing as well....not a bad day all in all

Discussion about players being released from other clubs and no ICT related Rumour so moved to "Other Football" for that reason.

To be honest it doesn't surprise me that this is happening and it doesn't surprise me that it's Lennon that it is happening too. I'm not saying it's right or acceptable, not in the slightest, but life teaches us that certain personalities are more likely to attract this kind of attention. It's no coincidence that in towns and cities throughout the world you can narrow trouble and problems down to certain groups and individuals. It's no coincidence that when it comes to trouble at football matches that it's generally the same names that come up time and again. Many of these people will claim to be innocent victims and say they were only reacting to how they were treated in the first place....but the truth is, for the most part, if you go looking for trouble then you are sure to find it. Lennon is someone who spent his entire playing career looking for and causing trouble both on and off the park and that's something that has continued into his managerial career. He's been playing the "victim of sectarianism" card for so long he's actually started to believe it himself and unfortunately he has a network of people around him who do little to help the situation, and if anything make matters worse by defending his actions or finding loopholes so he doesn't have to serve punishment for them. That doesn't excuse the actions of those sending him bullets and bombs or threatening his life, but I have to say that I have little sympathy for him. His recent claims of "This job makes me a target" are, quite frankly, a load of tosh. If that was the case then everyone who has managed Celtic in the past would have been subjected to the same and they haven't. The rights and wrongs of it don't really matter in the grand scheme of things, the kinds of people predisposed to doing things like posting bullets, bombs and making other similar threats will always exist despite the best efforts of the authorities and Lennon needs to realise that it's his own actions over the years that have made him a target for the attention of these kinds of people. The problem here is not sectarianism, that's just a convenient wall to hide behind so the finger of blame can be pointed at everyone else. The problem is Lennon, an odious wee man with a superiority complex and ego that is constantly stroked, massaged and given justification by the powers who be at Celtic Park.

The OP asked what we expected from the next 10 years....not what targets should be or what wishes we have....and that is the question I answered.

A needlessly negative reply to a very positive opening post and thread about the clubs progress. There are a lot of good things happening at ICT, especially over the last 2 years, and it would be nice to see this recognised a bit more than it is. We complain the central belt media don't acknowledge our achievements but if even our own fans are continually negative about the club and it's future then it isn't hard to see why we're easily ignored... That's not negative, it's a realistic view of what it's cost us to get to where we are and understanding that having sold off all our assets to achieve it we simply don't have the funds to bankroll anything like the same level of progress going forwards as we've experienced to date. It's not what I want, but that's just the way it is. On the pitch, with what we have (or equivalent) I think we are capable of sustaining the status quo, but realistically we're not going to go any great length of time without some kind of financial hiccup throwing a spanner in the works....and without major investment that will inevitably lead to the club having to take a step backwards before it can start progressing again. Unrealistic expectations and pressure from fans will only encourage/push the club towards spending what we don't have to achieve what we can't afford. Until something changes (like getting some sizeable investment) we need to be a little more content with what we have and do all we can to ensure we don't slide back unnecessarily. Do I feel any less enthusiastic about being an ICT Fan because I think the above? Not at all, it's just another challenge that needs to be met and whether we experience best case or worst case scenario I know we'll come out fighting and continue to be better than the sum our parts....because regardless of anything else, that's what we do best and that's what makes me most proud of being an ICT Fan, be it SPL or somewhere lower down the leagues.

Without some major intervention I predict the worst within the next 3 seasons....on the positive side, it gives us 7 years to re-establish what we have now (and hopefully on a firmer footing).

DORANNNNNNNNNN

Awoke this morning feeling like I had an Elephant sitting on my chest and with a crazy cough so giving this one a miss.

Yes

Yeah, better be prepared for the mass complaints from people who don't make it to the game on time due to A9 being backed up as far as Daviot and the City Centre being totally gridlocked. With it being TV game, little chance of kick-off being delayed until everyone is in the ground either.....in fact, on that basis, it wouldn't surprise me if the police intervene and not allow it.

Everyone who stuck by the club through Div 1 got 10% off this season. I think if the club can maintain ticket prices at this seasons level (without the discount) then that's probably about as much as we can ask for/expect and would, if memory serves me right, be pretty much in line with what the prices were from the season (maybe even 2 seasons) before we were relegated.

Don't think it is asking a bit much, the only reason it can't be done is because the fixture card is dominated by the needs of the OF.