absent friend

I dont think the original poster is calling for his head ... I think it is a simple question as to whether you think he will still be in charge next season.

Exactly, I don't want, nor did I start this thread, for a discussion on whether or not Butcher is any good or not or any of that stuff. I started this thread to try and see what people think will happen with Butcher regarding ICT, in the near future.

But Sir, to quote you - would you manage a team....

in a mediocre football country, at a club who aren't in the top league, at a team in the middle of nowhere.

if you had the wit to do better for yourself??

He is a good manager, we are lucky to have him, he is also intelligent and were I he, I would go as soon as possible when my contract is up and never look back at a team with so many negative fans!

It must do his head in.

On here people write 'if I can walk away from a game, irrespective of the outcome, where I have been entertained, that is all I ask for.'

We had superb entertainment last week and all we hear is 'what did the manager do wrong'? 'I am livid with that showing' etc.

Forked tongue or what??

Terry, go and be appreciated somewhere else.

Meantime Malpas

HT:0-1

FT:1-3

1st Scorer ICT:Foran

1st Scorer Opp:Lovell

Crowd:2941

at fans

It certainly seemed that way on Sunday. The team didn't know how to react, and has been pointed out in another thread, we seem to be conceding a lot of quickfire goals recently. This would perhaps suggest the team aren't quite sure how to react when conceding rather than hit the Panic button and stop playing football. Something that definitely needs to be worked on methinks.

Football is a game between two teams and one team can only play as well as the other lets them.

Sunday we had the first half, they had the second and also the goal that matter!

To talk about panic buttons, stopping playing football, no game plan after losing a goal etc is totally disrespectful of Dundee who came out of the blocks better than us for the second half. End of!

Sunday proved to a lot of us that we at least now have a team that can perform, it is only instilling the confidence in them that this is the case and the results will come.

waving his

I'm surprised TB wasn't wearing a Rangers club tie....

Where oh where do I find a smillie with a fishing rod??

Agree with Clacher that we should have had a game plan, or at least the slightest clue what to do, if and when Scumdee got a goal back.

Clacher whatever you have, it is contagious! Here's another one with your problem!

Are you both suggesting we have never lost a goal before so we don't know, as a mature team, how to react when we do?

Rather foolish me thinks!!!

The latter part of Harry's post sums it up I think.

A better question would be 'What would you have done when Dundee made it 2-1?'.

As has been said, there wasnt alot there needing changed at HT, the players fitness shouldnt have been an issue when thinking of subs as the phsychological boost from the scoreboard wouldve had them buzzing.

At 2-1, changes had to be made instantly to kill Dundees spirits and lift our own, why our players looked surprised I still dont know, they didnt react at all, they hadnt been prepared.

This is the type of statement that really riles me!!!

A team of professional footballers and somewhere on this thread it is stated that they were the more 'mature' team and guess what? The manager did not prepare them for the opposition scoring a goal.

How sad that the poor wee diddims were not prepared for that! Imagine Butcher's team talk ''Now children (that is aimed at the defence) should any of those bad, bad , Dundee players score a goal, don't look surprised, don't cry, I am not allowed on to give you cuddles, just don't be too hurt.

And as for you( the forwards) don't dare came back and give them too much sympathy - they are big boys now and will just have to get over it themselves. This does not mean they don't feel your support from afar.

Now I have prepared you for a goal being scored against you, go back out onto that wet park and Rossco...you are not allowed that umbrella!!"

.

I'm inclined to agree with you - that is a definite possibility.

Could you maybe do me a favour?

At your next seance do you think you could ask Jock Stein who he would like to see get the job?

Thanks...

Would Jock know that as well?

With loads of hindsight...and a TV replay

Golly off - Zadi on!

How Golly is immune from any criticism after Sunday, beats me!!

He is not up to our teams standards for a full game.

Watching the replay of Sunday's game, he not only was at fault for standing off his man and allowing a cross to come in, he was so slow, he could not take the throw-ins to our advantage and his passing was crap.

I accept his history with ICT and applaud it but his time is past.

If Zadi played as stated above he would not be in anyone's team for Saturday and indeed he would be on offer to Clach for free according to the posters on here BUT he is not an ICT old boy!

Would Zadi have done a better job than Golly on Sunday, in the second half? Of course! Would the boos have rang out? Of course every time he was on the ball!

.

I just hope Butcher will sit down with his players, with a video of the whole game, and work out with them, how they managed to perform so well in the first half, and so badly in the second.

There just has to valuable lessons to be learned here.

If they can start their next 6 league games the way they started on Sunday, and not squander 2/3 goal leads, promotion would become a very realistic target, and much more than just a distinct possibility.

Having studied the game again, as I said, I don't think it is as black and white as you make out above.

We did not play 'so badly' in the second half when you study it - yes we lost three goals but we could have scored three as well and then we would have been world beaters in some folks eyes!!

I think the team deserves lots of praise for the way they played but I do accept that we can even improve on that showing.

the games been recorded at my girlfriends, but is there any highlights online? was at the far end of the stand so i couldnt see what was really happening - all 5 goals were scored the other end.

Wait until you see the recording in full Kyle, it is worth the wait!

You will have a problem trying to reconcile the comments of some on here with the actual facts as they unfold on the screen. Using the pause etc buttons you are able to see so much more than you did at the park and not just the goals.

From memory on here, I recall Esson being called crap, Eagle being rubbish, Rooney a waste of space, etc.....watch and learn!! One player receives pelters on here and he scored two goals in a manner that would have the EPL adding them both to their goals of the month - I know I exaggerate - but there is an element of truth in this.

We have a team of players that can do big things for us if their confidence and belief can be worked on. Let's hope their manager, unlike some folk on here, concentrates on their positive play and not use one mistake to negate all the other good work they put in!

What would I have done?

Stressed to the players that Dee will come out like terriers and whatever effort went into the first half, by us, had to be maintained and increased in the first part of the second half to combat their early agression.

Ten minutes into the second half the changes by JS would be evident and tactics amended to suit.

Fatigue due to the heavier conditions to be monitored and subs used accordingly.

Result 4-1 ICT and my prediticion would be up!!

Cant argue with that one - according the Scottish Sun Butcher states that his half time talk was all about being solid and aware that Dundee would be going hell fer leather from the off. IMHO Jocky Scott got it rite and started playing it wide - especially to Griffiths who had poor Rosscoe on toast and he really got their midfield harrassing which they were not doing in the first half.

We are realyy going to sleep defensively and it is costing us - as Glebeict remarked that surpises me - we really need a solid, pacy central defender in the New Year.

I see a lack of consistency in the above.

We agree that JS got the tactics right in the second half putting Griffiths on the wing when the park turned into a ploughed field and heavyweights were at a disadvantage HOWEVER the goals came from their right side and I do not see Golly being held to blame at all - only Rossco is mentioned and he was against the star player on the park.

If Lionel was left back this whole forum would be exploding with anti-Lionel comments.

Golly must be well related!!

My prediction was for a 4-1 win to us and nobody at half time, by the comments being made, would have argued with that.

I have never heard more positive comments at a halftime, all smilee faces, craic great. 2nd half they upped their game - we did not - end of!!

For me it was evident that they had nullified our main weapon so Hayes should have been off early in the second half. They also put Griffiths, with his pace down the left wing against Rossco. Wee player, very fast, heavier ground due to rain, no contest - Procter should have been put back there and Rossco moved forward. For the record the big left winger had little chance against Rosco in the first half, Rossco refused to tackle staying on his feet and kept the winger from coming inside. This allowed a defender to back up on the left and time for the defensive to regroup at the back, against Griffiths this was not the case and it is full marks to the wee guy and his manager!

I can understand the late subs because extra time was a big possibility and they could have been needed.

Imrie was at fault for the tackle, but looking at the game on TV when I got home, there was no backchat and indeed he moved away from the scene and had to be called over by the ref, so in my estimation, a yellow but he is still a turd.

Anyway wonderful game, great support, maybe not as big as Dundee's but more class - super day out all together!

HT:1-0

FT:4-1

1st Scorer ICT:Imrie

1st Scorer Opp:Griffiths

Crowd:7491

1st Yellow Card:Imrie (for taking his shirt off after scoring!!)

As a PS to the forgoing .... Why can't I attack the young guys on here??

Parental funding, full sex life, no work concerns AND a full head of hair!!

Attack them??? I hate THEM!!

What jealousy?

Well Davie., problem puppies are found in any age bracket and whilst I accept my post 'attacked' the younger poster, you will find, in the recent past i.e. this week, that I have encouraged a young poster to consider the presentation and not the content, of their post, that is constructive.

It is without doubt a requirement to have younger blood introduced into this forum BUT they must be aware that there are boundries and whilst they may be 'in your face' - their postings must be embraced by 'respect for others'.

Now my older 'problem puppies' are also as above but they should know better!!

We all have the right to our views and indeed that is the richness of this forum - to debate is healthy - to attack the poster for holding differing views is childish in the extreme.

I have been labelled a 'muppet lover' a 'sweetie rustler' 'an idiot' etc because I do not accept booing of our players, unsupported criticism of the Board, that a loss is not the end of the world, even to the County but I can accept that this is in the spirit of the time and the hurting is there for all to see.

This is miles away from the problem being discussed by Scotty in my opinion and whilst a 'sack the board' 'sack the manager' is to be expected after a defeat, it is the long after negatitivy that undermines the enjoyment.

Anyway, roll on Sunday, get the sweeties ready and find a quite corner away from all the noise!!

.

Is Eric injured? I would have him on bench at the very least. Also Hayes to be a starter. And Lionel involved somewhere just to confuse the dark blues.

Must agree with this, we can't see the overhead kick into the net (No, not ours!!) if he is not on the park.

Unleash him from the bench and see him goooooo!!

Having been appalled at the post content it is only correct for me to say - well done that man!!

That's the point though RiG, I'd be more worried if it had succeeded. We don't need factions within what is, in essence, a small support. I understand where they are coming from when I read posts like Caleymad in Berks above: I don't agree with some of it, but I think that you are entitled to your point of view and to voice it. But why the need to point out the spelling? It just creates more division over a point that didn't need to be made. One thing that is correct here, though, is that the "younger" posters on here are the opinion formers of the future for this club, and they need to be encouraged unconditionally.

Your last seven words concern me. I do not think the 'younger posters' require to be encouraged unconditionally, they require to toe the line when posting and accept that a certain standard has to be set.

If they require to be Forum upstarts let them blow off steam on P & B and come on here once they have seen sense.

I have posted, in the past, my appreciation of this forum but there is no doubt that in the recent past postings have gone downhill.

If we accept that postings must reflect the onfield/support behaviour then we are in for a hard time on here. Losing in this league is something we will have to get used to but we could still end up in a good place - better placed for next season for instance.

Childish postings should not be tolerated.

I feel we are suffering from a small minority of 'problem puppies' and this should not spoil it for the rest of us.

.

And what a **** load of ???'s wasted which we cannot afford to!

This money would only have gone on goodies for the blazers over a period of time so if it means they have to have M & S Merlot with their main course at ?5 a bottle instead of their usual ?100 per bottle, so be it!