absent friend

It has to be...

Lennon's pretend headbutt from Juanjo.

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I think your figures for Falkirk are very false. They take support from the whole district, including Grangemouth and the district population is nearer 105,000

Hi Alex, I think in the overpopulated Central Scotland, this could very well be the case, areas running into each other but I just accepted the official population Government figures. Does this area not also support another two SFL teams?

Maybe the same can be said of the areas of all the other teams with a better % attendance than ours and our figure is therefore OK.

I thought there was 1M or very close to it living in Glasgow as well?

Glasgow and Greater Glasgow figures are quite different I think, if you feel the Glasgow figure is incorrect blame Gordon Brown however I don't see the relevence of your point when the OF are not being considered.

I was using this area of thought to see if we could establish a pattern of support. As stated above Livi new town, newish team, building up support, similar to ourselves, maybe take years. Old established clubs, tradition creates loyal following and therefore higher support.

Using a basic formula for last season and allocating 50% of the population to each team in Dundee and Edinburgh and assuming the away support make up, on average, 10% of the home attendance, the following stats emerge.

Club % attendance

Hibs 5.2 - Rugby influence?

Hearts 5.7 - a/a

ICT 5.7

Dons 5.8 - Ploughing matches influence?

Midden 6.6

Hamilton 7.0

United 11.14

Killie 11.77

Falkirk 16.0

Well 16.5

I have left out the OF - I realise top six/bottom six will make a difference but the stat pattern will remain - I realise we all have hinterlands from which we draw support or lose support to the OF.

Point from the above, we are nowhere near saturation point regarding support level and this must be an area for the club to major on. I would hope that the level could be raised to circa 7%, an extra 1000 heads with an extra income of maybe ?250000.

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I realise that we are still a young team and must keep attracting new followers although I would have thought our exploits over the past few years would have already done just that!

Looking at the populations V the home support for the teams I realise we are not the worst but we could do with more. I would say that our average home support is circa 6% of the population (4200) tops! Whilst I would think that Dunfermline could be twice that % figure. We must therefore have scope for attracting many more spectators given the correct climate ie money less tight and results on the field enjoying positive spin from the press.

Aberdeen must be struggling to hit 4.5% (9000) I would have thought but putting a % turnout per club does throw up some strange figures.

The main population shows up as follows so I am hoping someone is able to attach a more correct average home support figure, to the respective teams, as opposed to my guess above:-

1Glasgow578,790City

2Edinburgh448,624City

3 Aberdeen202,370City

4Dundee143,090City

5Livingston75,889Town

6Paisley74,170Town

7East Kilbride73,796Town

8Inverness70,207City

9Cumbernauld49,664Town

10Hamilton49,451Town

11Kirkcaldy46,912Town

12Ayr46,431Town

13Clydebank46,011Town

14Greenock45,467Town

15Kilmarnock44,170Town

16Perth43,450Town

17Stirling41,243City

18Coatbridge41,170Town

19Irvine39,527Town

20Dunfermline39,345

21Glenrothes38,678Town

22Dumfries37,846Town

23Airdrie36,326Town

24Falkirk32,376Town

25Motherwell30,311Town

26Wishaw28,565Town

27Rutherglen25,019Town

28Cambuslang24,502Town

29Bishopbriggs23,521Town

30Bearsden23,501Town

I thought he would after the performance against Holland. Theres not really anyone else that would take the job. Unless David Moyes gets sacked from Everton.. they havent had the best start to the season.

Now let's be fair here....Everton are not ICT ....their manager will not get verbally attacked by the fans after, is it four games?

I think Davie Moyes is well thought of by the club and his days for managing Scotland are away in the future. I do feel however that of all the possible managers we could have, he is the one that seems to get an awful lot out of his players and this is a requirement for any Scotland manager.

I see the BBC site is saying that there is a possibility of a change of back room staff now that Burley is being retained.

Could our manager be in line for the bullet or is he considered front line and not back room?

No word re TB but BBC sport confirmed Elvis 'has left the building.'

I see the BBC site is saying that there is a possibility of a change of back room staff now that Burley is being retained.

Could our manager be in line for the bullet or is he considered front line and not back room?

I think you will find that we also think-

DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER...........CRAP!

But their supporters are no too bad!

I hope the professionals that worked on Imries leg were ICT supporters and took about 10% off the loft of his foot so that his old 20 feet over the bar, balloon shot, will now hit the net!

Can you imagine Zadi, playing for his new team Morton, at Inverness, scoring the winning goal in the South goals?

I feel he could hold his fingers to his lips to the away fan(s) as a sign of respect - or - he could run past the front of the stand, at top speed, to the boo boys in the North stand and do an Adebayor and I feel many home fans would think...... good on you Zadi.

How much verbal abuse has Adebayor taken from his old fans?

In the cold light of day we can all agree that his actions were wrong but everyone has a breaking point and the reaction by fans is always the same - we can verbally abuse you but if you react we want you banned

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I think a wee bus run across the bridge, pre match, and offer the players a look at Victoria Park - their new home if they do not play well.

They should then be made to walk through Dingwall, savouring the sights and smells of the 'gadgies' and I would suggest that the bus back to the park would be full of very motivated players, ready to attack any team to get the result to keep them away from this potential fate.

HT:0-1

FT:1-3

1st Scorer ICT:Haynes

1st Scorer Opp:McGuffie

Crowd:1941

I think we have to accept that the West Coast press/ure comes into play in all of this with not only their biased reporting but timing the release to cause the most mischief and this has not helped the Burley cause at all.

He will go because of this, despite the antics of the three players mentioned above, undermining him as a manager during and after the events and the 'blazers' looking for a scapegoat.

I feel that he has at least got the players with him and Wednesday was a super performance from our team who played as a team throughout.

Successor?

Wee Strachan was not on the BBC sofa last week, as a pundit, for nothing. 'Remember me' 'I'm free' was there for all to see but made press enemies by his antics at Celtic.

Levein would be daft to hang his jacket on the hook when he is in with the bricks at DU.

Calderwood? Keeping a low press profile is our Jimmy but would suit the West Coast mafia and therefore is my punt for the job.

I don't belive that is the case.

I belive he'll be on less at County.

I belive Vigurs would've been worth paying it to and we're probably paying even more for less talented players now. That's what I belive.

Is this an 'I belive' fact or an 'I belive' wish it is a fact re County wage, his talent and our new players talents?

BUT

As I said elsewhere, if you are not part of the ICT management team how do you know why he should not have been off loaded?

Oh wait a second now! The manager should apologise for any mistakes, he should ask some folk on here what players he should keep or off load and who cares about confidentially - get it onto the forum! Make some of the posters happy.

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On the subject of 'chuckling' - the BBC match commentary was waxing lyrical about the ICT fans having travelled all the way down for the game and that they were all sitting in a 'wedge' behind the goal.....all except for two who were sitting miles from the pack, in their ICT tops.

The reason for this was about to be debated when an onfield incident happened and they never returned to it.

The banished two will know who they were and will now realise that they had all our and the commentary teams, attention for all of a minute or so in a lighthearted manner.

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I would submit that Butcher has made a difference from our last manager, has recruited a number of decent players for the league we are in, even the 'not good enough for the Tinks' player that he signed who appeared to play to an acceptable standard on Sunday.

I would submit that retaining Ian Vigurs would have made more sense than re-signing Gollabeck.

Not being a part of the ICT management team, I would submit that you have no idea why Vigurs was moved on and this makes your 'sense' - nonsense.

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I was just trying to point out to BEE123 that comparisons between Butcher's time at Brentford and his time here are not relevant at this point.

yet

Now how can I put this nicely?

You make a mistake at work and lose your job. You now find a better position and guess what? You are going to make the same mistakes again - so says our Brentford positive thinker, et al.

I would submit that Butcher has made a difference from our last manager, has recruited a number of decent players for the league we are in, even the 'not good enough for the Tinks' player that he signed who appeared to play to an acceptable standard on Sunday.

I accept that posters on here do not credit our current manager with any tactical skill, do not believe he has any budget restraints and feel he should change our players into something they are not.

I believe that he has learnt/can learn as he goes through life and we, at ICT, will be the recipients of this learning.

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Well Dalneigh Caley, I feel that we all, including Scotty, are entitled to react to a defeat in whatever way we wish!

If you care to read my posts you will find that I have stated that it is the breadth of views on here that makes this forum 'so rich'!

As Birddog also stated 'because I know that my view is not the whole picture and others see things I don't, it frustrates me how peoples views are shot down so readily because of blind following'. Now believe it or not, I agree totally!!

I will however also offer an opposite view, from Scotty, to something that happened at the County game.

I wonder how many mature Captains of a football team feel the need to 'swear' at their own 'fans' at the end of a game??

Is this reaction a reflection of the Captain or the loyal supportive 'fans' - oh wait! I already know the answer, it cannot be the loyal supportive fans that are fault!

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Give DornochCaley a break.

If my reading of his posts is correct then he's just a young laddie who's tried to jump on the 'sack Butcher' bandwagon that's been created by a couple of users (with questionable affiliation to the club)

and (DC) has quickly found himself out of his depth when challenged on, or asked to explain, them.

I'd be surprised if he was even born when Butcher was playing, let alone old enough to remember any comments he might have made back then.

What an excellent post - says a lot with the minimum of words.

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Well we scraped through against a poor Partick team today and we even won on penalties which was a slight bonus after our last trip to Firhill.

Happy we won and great to see a defence consisting of Golly and Granty, we just needed big Bobby and it would be 2002 all over again :)

I will accept that your knowledge of the strength of the PT team is better than mine!

Listening to the BBC radio broadcast, it was evident that this was a tactical game in the main, with our plan being better than theirs in the first half and their and our changes at half time putting them on top.

It was remarked upon that our players individually were 'good buys' but still to knit into a team. They underlined this by stating that for years the ICT players names were known to them pre the team sheets and now they had difficulty identifying them.

Following this game I bet our management team would like to sign a few of the 'poor' PT players if they had an option!!

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Thats absolute nonsense absent friend , just because we all dont wear the same rose tinted specs as yourself and dare to question Butchers f*ck ups we're not real fans !!!

Questioning the managers , whatever you call them, is one thing but, in my opinion, to have such a seasoned manager with his playing and managing pedigree, in charge of our Div 1 club, makes us jolly lucky. To offer him time to improve, after one defeat this season, with a virtual new team, is nonsense and highlights some of the 'fans' ICT have.

Excellent post,(Dalneigh Caley) there are too many happy clappers treating fellow fans like hooligans both on the forum here and at matches just because they speak out and question the judgement of players and management. The reason that people get so angry and animated is because they care for the club so much. Perhaps those who shout down fellow fans on the forum or give the 20 yard stare at matches should question their loyalty towards the club, after all they are quite happy to lend unquestioning support those who drag our club further and further down.

Putting the manager under pressure with one lost game this season, in your book, is supportive??

If any other stance is taken we are 'happy clappers' ' silent starers at yards' 'unable to see the direction the club has moved'.

I would submit that the main thrust of real ICT supporters, were aware of the downward spiral we were on when Butcher took us over and were grateful we were able to be involved in the SPL up to the last kick of the ball in the last match!!

We also appreciate the financial restraints, change of playing staff and loss of confidence relegation created and we think that this is the time to get behind our team, including the management team.

I respect your right to have the opposite view and no, I don't have to resort to name calling!! You see this is what grown ups do.

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Maybe John would come back if needed due to his historic link with the club BUT when he loses his first match he will be put on a time limit by this 'fans' and given a month/two months to produce results the 'fans' will be happy with and this with another big change in playing personal, all freebies, before his head was called for.

John come and join us if our Board are stupid enough to heed the herd on here BUT be aware that the ICT managerial role must be now the most shooglie hook you can hang your jacket on, due to our fan base.

ICT recruit a good manager? The fans on here would drive away any person with an ounce of managerial ability, unless they were cast-offs or just plain daft!

The greatest manager, in my eyes, would have been given the bums rush by this crowd on here due to his teams initial performances so you see - Alex Ferguson therefore is not fit to manage ICT in the eyes of those negative posters on here?

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HT: 0-2

FT:1-4

1st Scorer ICT:Haynes

1st Scorer Opp:Hamilton

Crowd:1491

Roger, remember that this vermin is only one person and although his actions were terrible, (feelings of an ice-cube comes to mind), try and be receptive to the rest of us, as you have the thoughts and prayers of us all.

Relegate him to the gutter where he belongs.

Alex, being from Culcabock and easily lead, I just accepted the stats given by 5th Stand and put some meat on the bones!

It now appears the stats are all nonsense so that was a waste of time.

On researching Butchers stats, I was however, impressed with the way he turned our fortunes around and not all against bottom 6 teams.

But maybe the stats on here relating to that are nonsense as well and he was rubbish.