absent friend

I wonder if you and Kev have the same second hand info source - you know the one 'his grannie was out on the pull and saw someone, she thinks it was a footballer but she had taken her reading glasses by mistake but he was a big boy and he was taking a drink IN A PUB and therefore was an ICT player'

:D What?

I've never said I don't want TB as our manager. Don't think there's many others that would want to come to ICT at the moment, and we should stick by him at least til the end of his contract. And I don't beleive that his TV work is affecting any of our performances on the field, there are other factors affecting this though.

Agree with what others have said that although we are playing p!sh just now, doesn't mean to say things can't be turned around, and a wee run of form before Xmas and we will be up the top somewhere.

Although I don't beleive we're going to win the league, I would like to think we will be at least in the top 5, hopefully even top 3, at the moment though I can't see it.

It is the players that are to blame, not TB and his outside work, quite a few of them could do with an old size 9 up their erse, if they don't get a grip.

Surprise, surprise, I agree with your above posting.

My point regarding you, which went over your head, was the source of your info re an alledged punchup between ICT players.

If your lady friend was drinking till 10am I fear her powers of recall must be in doubt and to post such nonsense for others to take as Gospel, is even worse.

For others to then use it as evidence that our players are not managed correctly by TB, is maybe just par for the course on here but that is what can happen.

"See here Coff, call me old fashioned if you like but I told you we would be better using the horse."

Or

"Are you sure we can see into the park from here, Coff."

or

"I wish your mother was here Coff, if she broke wind we would be up and over that bridge in no time."

So anything but promotion is regarded as a failure at this club now? Some people really need to go back and take a look at where we came from.

Some people really need to remember the Board's basis for taking a high profile management team on last year. Great if we stayed up but it was not expected. The strategy was to develop the team so that we would go straight back up if we did go down. You may think that was an unrealistic expectation of the Board but that is what TB has been brought in for and therefore anything short of promotion is failure. Don't knock the fans for trying to go along with the ambition of the Board.

I wonder if you and Kev have the same second hand info source - you know the one 'his grannie was out on the pull and saw someone, she thinks it was a footballer but she had taken her reading glasses by mistake but he was a big boy and he was taking a drink IN A PUB and therefore was an ICT player'

Anyway back to your above post, I cannot find any reference to the Board accepting we were going down when TB was appointed, never mind a plan for going back up. How can you develop a team, when demoted, that walks out the door due to higher expectations, higher wages or are unaffordable on a lower SFL income.

Perhaps you can help with your info source because if that statement is unsound the rest is then tosh.

But in the end, who turned out to be right?

I actually thought the first letter was fine, but some of Butcher's reply were quite witty, but also quite rude.

With his usage of written English, I think we would notice if he posted on here.

I though it was super, not many managers would have been able to retort in print, in that fashion. I bet other managers would have replied but it would never have been published.

Sorry don't know the politics of that situation to be able to apportion blame.

Loved Butcher's reply!

Put that Aussie pundit in his place.

The footballing world is full of people with less ability telling the people in charge how to do their job - if they are so good why are they not in management.

Did Alan Shearer not experience how much easier it was to criticise from a studio than to change things on a park, last season?

Butcher says in today's Courier:

Andy Barrowman didn't do anything wrong really. It's just Danni Sanchez gives us that little bit more threat in terms of his movement and his pace

If that's the case, why didn't he A - start with three strikers (as he was touting last week), or B - keep Barrowman on, and put Sanchez on at half time, taking off one of the players having a dreadfull game, ie - Bulvitis, Proctor or Duncan.

Cause thats common sense and he lacks it!

That's the common sense that allows Sanchez to play alongside Grantie or at right back or wherever!

Got it!

The reason I'm not calling for his head, and the reason why at this time I hope he doesn't go is because I see Butcher as being the lesser of two evils, and should Butcher go, my worry...no, make that what I am absolutely petrified o,f is Malpas getting the job. Someone I reckon he'd be an absolute disaster. To quote Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead, "when you're made to pick the lesser of two evils, your still picking evil". Unfortunately in this case we haven't much choice.

Don't think so.

Our management team will move on shortly - let's be fair from this forum it is obvious ICT management is a thankless job.

Oh, wait we could have John Robertson, a magic manager, so good nobody wants him except the ICT supporters that live in the past.

We will not have an ex England captain, current Scotland assistant manager, leading our team, what we will have is Dick Campbell and a part time football team, as many of the current players follow TB out the door.

I suppose that will stop the arguing on here as to which of TB signing are good or whatever, unless like Buchanan they come back and bite you on the bum. (If that was TB not CC that let that player get away what a field day the posters on here would have)

I think our current management team are doing a good job under trying circumstances - not as good as the fans on here would of course, that's accepted. The lack of funds, loss of form, injuries etc have had an effect on his team selection, no doubt, although we are not that far adrift in the league.

Will we be better with Rossco and Imrie back and of course our injured centre forward? I guess we will be - and longer term Duff will also make an impact on his return but by then TB will be history and Dick will be speaking eloquently to the BBC regarding the loss of another three points and we will all be so grateful for our new public image. No red wine just cloth cap and pints!

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I would suggest that all the rules as shown are/were as per other club rules and therefore agreed by the SPL/SFL.

To read this thread you would think we are the only club where the spectators are asked to remain seated and the only club where abuse is not tolerated.

Now it may be that our stewards are more heavy handed than others, more active to certain sections than others BUT I was at Pittodrie recently and watched ALL the Rangers fans standing whilst the stewards were heavy handed with the home support regarding their standing.

To call for a boycott of a most looked forward to fixture, is nonsense and will accomplish nothing. If 100 decide to boycott the match and the crowd is 5220 instead of 5320 who will notice? The press, the club? No, only the poor souls who missed us beating the rivals 5-0!!

As long as we can sing 'The wheels on your house go round and round' - they will get the message.

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On Topic

The backbone of some of our fans!

HT:1-0

FT:2-1

1st Scorer ICT:Foran

1st Scorer Opp:Rowson

Crowd:3491

I see the offical statement has come through regarding Dennis going out on loan to Queen of the South until Christmas.

Maybe allow him to regain a wee bit of confidence if he starts knocking in goals for them - he appears to need a bit of belief back again and this could do the job.

I like our manager, I think he is doing a good job with the tools to hand, good result last night, almost made it 11 games with one defeat, others like Rovercaley see it differently.

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Good result last night?

I thought we lost last night, or did I miss something?

Good result? What a strange comment.

:024:

Maybe my expectation is different to yours, young Sir.

When we play a team riding high in the SPL and my team is 'finding it's feet' in the SFL, I along with many more ICT supporters, felt it was lamb to the slaughter last night.

Instead I had a superb evenings entertainment where my team came back twice and leveled the game over 90 minutes. Our SPL opponents played against 10 men for much of the game and only won on an OG basis.

I would suggest that to any fan of ICT, other that your good-self, that this was a spirited performance and indeed a good result in the circumstances!!

I have already remarked on this forum on the unrealistic expectations of some of the ICT support and I suppose you have just underlined this.

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I have'nt commented for a while on how the team been doing.(That is a pity because we need all the help we can get on here for Mr Butcher) But I think Butcher has lost the plot.(Of course he has, we only held the 3rd top SPL team to a 2-2 draw in 90 mins, we should have shafted them!!) Why did Ross Tokely not play last night? The report says he had a strain(Now that will be a lie despite us being informed 200 posts ago) and Eagle's was dropped. Eagle's was injured in training and there was word that Ross had a few words.(Now is this the Ross that Butcher wants 11 off every game?) Why after last weeks match when Butcher says in the papers he was not happy with the performance and could have made 8 subs etc what does he do he plays Djebi-Zadi up front.(I think you will find many pundits on here suggested that this could be a good move for him)

Why after his comments in the papers that the new lads need games because they have'nt played before does he insist on playing them, when we have lads that played in S.P.L last year not even on the bench. We have lads that have experience playing in england and at international level not getting a start. (Sorry I'm a wee bit lost here)I think Hayes and Cox will be good players ( not Eagle, Stratford, and I have my doubts on Sanchez- think he would be better of in a different league where the work is done for him.

Djebi was dropped a few weeks ago because he was told he was not good enough.(Don't think so, loss of confidence was mentioned though) Butcher has no man management skills ( and as far as I can see no football management skills either) he may have been a great player but thats does'nt make him a good manager. (Open to debate)

I would like to see a starting 11 of Esson, Ross , Bulvitis, Munro, Golalek, with Foran on the right ( i dont think he is a natural forward ) cox, mc bain ( or Duncan) Hayes on the left with Barrowman and Rooney up front. Give this team a run together and let Butcher forget about his ego and concentrate on the job he is paid to do. If he is to be a good manager he has to be able to drop the lads that he has brought in when they are not doing the job. I think Terry should put his feelings aside ( and forget about not liking a player ) this is not about Terry Butcher its about I.C.T football club been promoted back to the S.P.L and not relegated to Div 2.

I for one would love the club back in the S.P.L but it needs everyone to be honest and work hard and no bull *****

Reading about Butcher in the final paragraph, I can only assume that Rovercaley has inside info. If not this is so sad to try and undermine the fans and the players belief as to what goes on inside the club.

I like our manager, I think he is doing a good job with the tools to hand, good result last night, almost made it 11 games with one defeat, others like Rovercaley see it differently.

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I've only seen the County and the Ayr games - apart from pre-season friendlies -

I don't know about over catious but I felt there were a lot of nervous perfomances by too many experienced players.... that can be contagious, and spread quickly through the ranks.

In the main they are a decent bunch of pro's who are seldom short of effort and comittment - I'd just like to see them a bit more relaxed and trying and enjoy themselves a wee bit more.

I agree with georgeios - It is a good question!

Wonderful sentiment!!

Have you ever had to perform a normal, for you, task under test conditions? This could be running a weld, driving, video interview or even leaving a message on an ansphone. All have an added pressure due to the professional critics passing judgment on your performance, either real or imaginary.

Now there is nothing imaginary about the ICT home support, they are all critical and also not professional. Boo the players before they are even stripped, prophets of doom for days before a game and 20/20 vision in hindsight.

Now with the above in mind you ask of the managers and team - I'd just like to see them a bit more relaxed and trying and enjoy themselves a wee bit more.

Aye right!

I'd like to see the support trying to be a bit more relaxed and supportive but even if we won 10-0 we would still have the pundits on here saying, as they did after last nights game 'Now for the criticism......!!'

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HEILANDEE - I CAN HEAR YOU!!!

Super Result - well done the Dee!

HT:0-2

FT:0-3

1st Scorer ICT:Foran

1st Scorer Opp:Forbes

Crowd:1941

Oh FFS give it a rest! some people moan when they think Butcher will be in Japan. Then when he makes it abundantly clear that ICT are his main priority and he will be with them for match against QOS they start giving him a kicking for being on the tele.

He is our manager and I am quite happy with the team he has built who are starting to gel together. Better times ahead starting on Saturday. Not bothered about cup game against Motherwell as league has to be our priority.

There are a few who might disagree with you after watching the team on Saturday at Airdrie.

Gelling is one thing, being a good footballer in another, we have seen the new signings play together for a few games now, Butcher has persisted with his choices and i can see why.

In my mind the midfield has two problems:

Stratford & Eagles are no more than squad players and should NOT be first choice.

The whole midfield (now) is too young and not experienced in first team football,so when things go wrong they dont have a clue how to change the game.

Having just read Butchers interviewregarding Saturdays match, in today's P & J where he stated something like, he told the team at half time he would have changed 9 players if he had the option and did not receive one complaint from any of them.

This does not sound like a manager persisting with his selection or not worried about the Motherwell match.

Foran also admitted in the same article that he/they played rubbish and need to up their game.

Point I will make is that if you read this forum postings it would not be difficult to form the opinion that our management team do not appreciate the teams shortcomings, only the fans do.

Well, I think this article puts the management team sharing the fans views or the fans sharing the management views, at least on this latest showing.

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im pretty sure financiers of Dundee ICT will be expecting a much higher league position after all the money they have thrown at the team

Fixed it for you!

It just shows how little one knows of their own team.

I did not appreciate that ICT were in the same bracket as Dundee on either the player front or indeed the player wage bill. Nor did I know that we had Calum on board with his millions.

I thought we were just a wee team from the Highlands that had enjoyed our sojourn in the SPL and were now working away within our budget with mostly first division type players!

On topic - was Davie Irons not in a similar position last year and came away after a dreadful start?

I think it was the League Cup, away back in time, they introduced a line, across the park, midway between the half way line and the 18 yard box, for a season.

No offside up to that line.

As you can imagine the defence just lobbed the ball in front of the forwards who were massed on the line when their own team was under attack, leaving the attacking defenders to play catch-up.

No well thought out formations just a young school team formation, hit and chase.

Surprise, surprise, it went down like a lead duck.

Butcher must be kicking himself with how good Vigurs has been playing this season!

Which makes you wonder how good his judgement is. Are we getting the Motherwell Butcher or the Brentford one? It's not just the team who have to knuckle down and start showing us what they are worth.

For me, in this case, Butcher's judgement was spot on!!

I never stop marvelling at this Forum - ICT world champions last week, Butcher must go this week - and then we have our Heilandee who must be smarting like mad with his team of world beaters performing like ...well not performing and never a complaint!

If we had spent the money Dee have, to have the calibre of player they have signed on the wages they are enjoying and end up, even at this stage of the league, mid table, the manager, the muppets, the tea lady et al, would by now be sent to darkest Glenrothes.

Maybe Heilandee's mature acceptance of his teams performance highlights the ICT fans need for 100% success or else their manager etc must go.(One defeat is one too many!!)

I wonder if Sir Calum is now wondering if he should have invested in a wee Highland team like ICT and enjoyed the local craic, like Mr Sutherland did, if the team under achieved.

Watched the Everton Cup game last night which had the introduction of 5th and 6th officials standing on the byeline around where the 6 yard box line joins it, on the opposite side of the goals from the linesman. This allowed the referee to have a face on view of the goal action with the linesman and 5/6 official having a sighting of the goal action from both left and right.

This should help with goals that never were or goals that should have been decisions.

However it should also cut out/cut down diving. This official is on the spot to see the event, is in immediate radio contact with the ref and the players know that, so any hint of cheating could have a big come back on the player without the need for TV evidence.

The other BIG change this brought about was the situation in the box waiting for a corner kick to be taken. No holding onto shirts, no blocking etc leaving players freer in the box and I would suggest, as per last night, corners will now be a bigger source of goals due to this.

I would not be surprised to see this being rolled out, at the top level anyway, where the additional cost could be absorbed and refereeing mistakes have mega-millions riding on them.

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HT:0-1

FT:1-3

1st Scorer ICT: Rossco

1st Scorer Opp: Waddle

Crowd:1149

I sAW Terry on the t.v last night. His patter was pish.

He was talking about Eduardo's dive against Celtic but, I didn't hear him say much after Russell Duncan dived against Falkirk last season......

They're all at it.......

I think he is one of the better commentators, what he says makes sense to me and what's more we can all understand what he is saying.

I would think he must be a good advert for the club and this exposure could reap rewards if/when he requires to sign players.

Now you have just come on here to create trouble!

We do not mix you lot up with Motherwell fans so please be aware that it is our rival team supporters, over the bridge, that follow their team in tractors. Ours tends to be BMW's, Merc's, stretch limos etc.

Now regarding our socialising in Perth on the way home, celebrating our win, we appreciate your warning. We did not realise that so many Airdrie people used Perth for a weekend retreat.

We will, as you suggest, try and avoid them and endeavour to meet up with the locals instead.