davie

This is what you mainstand guys just don't seem to get, and it's at the core of this. The use of "industrial" language does not imply hate. It implies that it is the common language of the common man who is (or most likely was) the mainstay of football support who went to games on a saturday and voiced their support as best they could. Like most ingrained traditions, they die hard and there will continue to be conflict with Keano's "prawn sandwiches brigade" who have adopted footy and hide behind euphamisms instead of saying things the way they are. It will be like this until one or other eventually prevails. And it won't be you lot.

Explain please.

Certainly. I'm talking about people like "mainstander" who use euphamisms like "the decent majoraty" (sic) who are being "chased away" through "hatred" from football by the "mindless majoraty" (sic, again) in support of a pretty vacuous argument. From the volume of posts hereabouts, it would seem that "majority" is not his term to use. The vast majority defend the behaviour of fans, even if in occasion it's expressed in words I'd rather not use, and as long is dosn't descend into hatred, bigotry, homophobia or racism. The OP was talking about the fact that the G word was banter, which it patently is and used by the majority around here. So, as long as they keep going to football, people like "mainstander" will be what they are; a non representative minority that are as free as anyone else to voice their opinion. And the big man's right - surely that's enough now.

"euphamisms" (sic)?... try "euphEmisms" :D

Charles, I was in a hurry and oh dear! I hang my head in shame. :029:

This is what you mainstand guys just don't seem to get, and it's at the core of this. The use of "industrial" language does not imply hate. It implies that it is the common language of the common man who is (or most likely was) the mainstay of football support who went to games on a saturday and voiced their support as best they could. Like most ingrained traditions, they die hard and there will continue to be conflict with Keano's "prawn sandwiches brigade" who have adopted footy and hide behind euphamisms instead of saying things the way they are. It will be like this until one or other eventually prevails. And it won't be you lot.

Explain please.

Certainly. I'm talking about people like "mainstander" who use euphamisms like "the decent majoraty" (sic) who are being "chased away" through "hatred" from football by the "mindless majoraty" (sic, again) in support of a pretty vacuous argument. From the volume of posts hereabouts, it would seem that "majority" is not his term to use. The vast majority defend the behaviour of fans, even if in occasion it's expressed in words I'd rather not use, and as long is dosn't descend into hatred, bigotry, homophobia or racism. The OP was talking about the fact that the G word was banter, which it patently is and used by the majority around here. So, as long as they keep going to football, people like "mainstander" will be what they are; a non representative minority that are as free as anyone else to voice their opinion. And the big man's right - surely that's enough now.

I sit in the main stand and we certanly need the singing from the north stand to get our lot started!

But why the use of offensive words. No need for hate, just positive support for our team.

Suggestion. - Use Tink instead of Gypsy or is that word also racist?

Neksor,

This is what you mainstand guys just don't seem to get, and it's at the core of this. The use of "industrial" language does not imply hate. It implies that it is the common language of the common man who is (or most likely was) the mainstay of football support who went to games on a saturday and voiced their support as best they could. Like most ingrained traditions, they die hard and there will continue to be conflict with Keano's "prawn sandwiches brigade" who have adopted footy and hide behind euphamisms instead of saying things the way they are. It will be like this until one or other eventually prevails. And it won't be you lot.

I'll take that one, although it was a real scraped win. Agree with other posters, thought Esson was immense, Foran good, Hayes good,Cox also. Why does TB persist with Eagles? Poor laddie couldn't do a damn thing right today. Pushed on at the wrong times, dropped off at the wrong times and couldn't tackle. Goal was a cross, but thanks.

Interestingly, I asked the steward if I had to sit in the seat on my ticket to be told "you can sit wherever you want, and stand if you want as long as nobody's view is blocked" Obvious cave in MS and the club, so the only result has been humiliating headlines in the press over a non-issue. great.

from the p& j article: Northern Constabulary Inspector Blair Marquis said: "Allegations of racism are rarely encountered at the stadium, though if they are then they are treated seriously.". How many allegatons made against ICT fans exactly?

I think under freedom of information legislation it would be possible to put this to bed. It's hardly portraying ICT fans in a good light. I also think that the "fans representatives" at the meeting were unhappy with the fact that the word bas tards was being used before gypsy. What is with these precious "fans"? is there ANY football club with such a negative, boring element?

Here's the full p&j story:

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1423887

after alex pointed out the overthebridge boards on this issue it's pretty evident that the whole thing is an absolute farce.

Ha! I was thinking the same FOI enquiry thing myself. That would give us an accurate scale to the issue, and perhaps give MS something to think about, providing he's not wearing his boring, negative DILLIGAF t-shirt. Oh, it's a permanent tattoo.........BTW, what happens when they sing "I'd rather be a gypsy than a tink"? Form an orderly queue to complain.

For those too young to remember, like davie, Zulu was a 1964 film with Micheal Caine and a few others.

Alex, I dearly wish...........

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere but, in addition to the semi final being shown live on BBC Alba, there is also full match commentary on BBC Radio Scotland. This will be on 810 Medium Wave following straight on from the Old Firm game. The football can also be accessed on the Radio nan Gaidheal frequency (103.5-105FM - 104.9 in the Inverness area) except when R nan G is on air. I think there is a Gaelic service on for half an hour at 3 so if you suddenly hear something that sounds like the soundtrack of Zulu you will have to switch to MW for the duration.

I'm not sure what the arrangements are on the internet.

Think i'm just going to go and watch the game live...

Charles, for God's sake be careful. You can't use terms like "Zulu" around here..........

One line of "stand up just to **** them off" and I'm there!

Has it crossed anyones mind that the complainants may actually be Gypsy Travellers? If it were them they are bound to be offended are they not? They're are many Travellers settled in Inverness and I'm sure some of them even support ICT.

There are many who see it as banter to refer to RC supporters as Gypsies and who get a laugh out of inferring that Gypsies are dirty or lawbreakers or, indeed, live in caravans and some of those claim not to be racist but the very inference in itself is racist.

Don't get me wrong here. I've made my caravan jokes etc, just like everyone else, and I see it as no more than banter but when the big arm of the law threatens action then its time to change. This was never a problem in our previous times in the same league as County because the recognition of Race for Travellers did not exist. It does now and if one person is offended then the club have to be seen to act.

Good post Alex. I agree with what you say but nowadays so called pc complaints seem to rarely come from the group concerned whcould have cause to be offended. eg people getting their knickers in a twist re Christmas springs to mind.

I'm with you here old girl. I don't see why the threat of the law should be a signal to roll over. There's a fine tradition of resistance in Scotland, but for important stuff like the poll tax or the miners strike, not trivial sh*te like this. And i'm still asking, is "arab" out of bounds? Is "hun" out of bounds? Context you see!

How can a football team survive when it works so hard to drive its fans away?

From over here in Canada these guys look like a bunch of fools.

I can argue with that.

The club aren't trying to drive the fans away. They are anxious not to fall foul of the law by allowing them to chant what are now, apparently, racist chants....

I don't think they've got any options other than to heed the police advice in this matter.

John boy, I don't think that anyone on here is advocating racism. the point that you seem to be consistently missing is that it never needed to come to this. All that it required was an announcement before the game, and a few words of warning to section G. It was the club who upped the ante by responding to what, by their own account, is one written (and therefore uncorroborated) and one verbal (and therefore inadmissable) complaint. It was the club who involved the polis and the club who mixed this issue up with the sitting/ standing in section G issue. The club, and in particular the general manager, doesn't need you as an apologist.

All that is happening here is the inevitable and justified backlash when you are silenced by the powers that be on behalf of a minority of one.

This is unbelievable. 2 complaints cause all this publicity which make us all look racist to the rest of the world. Horrified about the P and J article. I think the club reacting like they did has made things a lot worse and has made us all look bad. No wonder folk would rather stay at home.

Couldn't agree more old girl. Responsibility lies completely with Mike Smith for engineering this over one (and therefore uncorroborated in writing) complaint. I note that in the same paper, Adam Rooney wants the fans to " turn up the volume to drown out the travelling support and (sic) maybe even unnerve their players" According to MS, this is probably incitement.

Surely it's the law that's the problem, not the club.

I can understand protection being afforded to the race of ethnic Roma people, but not to people who have just made a lifestyle choice.

Yngwie, this is all about context. Being racist implies a malicious attitude towards the group (gypsy, whatever) intended to discriminate and harm. If you have ever seen this in evidence towards County supporters, I'll bu**er off and shut up now. But you haven't. This is banter, pure and simple. It is true that the Law is a blunt instrument in this respect, but it is one that the muppets have picked up sharpish and used against the bairns in section G. On the basis of one admissible complaint? How does it make sense to alienate hundreds on the basis of that? BTW, I don't have a racist bone in my body. If I see racism or discrimination I will fight it, but up front and with common sense. That is what this club patently and arrogantly lacks. I wonder what will happen tomorrow when the inevitable "stand up if you hate Mike Smith" happens? The club will no doubt claim nothing they could do about a situation that they engineered and the fans will suffer again. As usual. BTW if anyone out there, who knows about my other football passion refers to me as an "arab", I shall report them immediately.

I hope the three are happy now, but I really would like to see evidence. Verbal complaints are not generally acted upon by the club (or there would be no stewards left) so why now, and why the young lads? This is vindictive discrimination by the club, acting on one written complaint.

I am not happy. I will be going to the game, despite it becoming more and more apparent that the muppets have a death wish for the club and I will make my displeasure known if need be. Again Mike Smith, if you don't like banter then go somewhere where none exists.

Well that clarifies things then. A gobfull of spin (not even from the main protagonist) followed by a vieled threat of action from the polis who are fortuitously independent of the club. I am glad that there is an "understanding of football tradition" when there is patently none. If there was, you would see that this is nothing but parochial regional banter.

I presume that the "safety officer" hides behid the same anonymity as those "official complainants" It's football. We like it, it's why we pay good money to go. If you don't like it, with the greatest of all due respect, f**k off somewhelse that you do like, Mike.

Can you pay at the gate?

Only if you take the oath on the bible after paying but before entering the ground;

I do promise to sit on my seat,

I do promise not to swear,

I do promise not to sing,

I do promise not to pass opinion on how the ICT or opposing team are playing,

I do promise not to utter the G word,

I do promise to do what a steward tells me to do, no matter how stupid or rude the steward is.

Then and only then can you enter the asylum.

How utterly, utterly true. As with any truism, ignore it.

Is it not the case that the chants are upsetting the neighbours? as there is a large travelling community not that far from the ground.

Are you taking the p*ss? At what point does the noise generated in section G carry that far. Even with a (rare) NNW wind? By the way, it's a site, not a fixed community (kind of defeats the purpose, being travelling and all)

Hold on a minute. Of course the G word is racist. Of course it's said with venom. Of course it's shouted loudly. It's because it's a FOOTBALL MATCH. It's a tribe thing. it's a gladatorial contest where your champions face up to theirs, but instead of killing each other, they kick a ball and we, the supporters, will them on. Get that kind of emotional involvement and people will say and do things that they ordinarily wouldn't. I don't think many (if any) of the section G people would shout "g word abuse" at anyone outside of the ground, regardless of where they were from. Generally speaking, these boys are treated very badly by the stewards (Caley 100, remember your brewster out banner)

As for mainstander, I take exception to your flippant 1690 quote. There are never an average of 2 murders after any of our games, A&E is never overwhelmed, people do not spout the kind of genuinely held belief bile that they do. Maintain perspective please, and Section G, more power to you.

Is the TCS the sole domain of elderly singers? Is it possible to get someone to play there who isn't arthritic?

What is this? I thought it was a thread started as a bit of bait by some random. And here we are, unable to not bemoan our own status! Pleeeze! Consistency problem? Diarrhoea has a consistency problem. Dingwall has a consistency problem. Maybe the two are related. Jings!

Jings again! Realise that any kind of results led management is a confidence game. It's about getting the most positive spin on everything to keep your shareholders, team and fans happy (in that order) so you are not liable to have people (including TB) bemoaning their mistakes in public except in the most coded of language. The kind of language TB used after the c*unty game. So I don't think you can say he's not acknowleging problems. as for the comparison with Brewster, I don't recognise it. Even with the ups and downs we've experienced so far, this feels nothing like the miserable depths of CB's reign.

So I don't know if I have faith (too jaundiced for that) but I see enough to have hope and at this stage of the season, that's enough.

Chic Murray,genius

Frances Begbie, cultural icon

George Galloway, political overweight

Jings, nice one absent friend. Lots of lines of sense let down by the needless (and not very good) sarcasm right at the end. One thing I will say is that after all these years of watching fitba, it's about opinions. Thousands of the things, and none of them exactly the same as the others! I agree with Scotty on this one, and I'll be honest, I agree with grantie (although I don't rate him as capitan for other reasons) If as much energy was invested in supporting the team as carping, better sh*t would happen

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