Oz647

HT 0-0 FT 2-0 ICT Rooney Accies Imrie crowd 3801

HT:0-0 FT:1-1 1st scorer ICT:Rooney 1st scorer Opp:Lafferty Crowd:35001

I grew up in Toowoomba, it really is heartbraking to see the destruction the floods have caused.

HT: 1-1 FT: 1-2 1st scorer ICT: Rooney 1st scorer opp: Murphy Crowd: 4001

Is it just me or does Torres give the impression that he just can't be ersed? If I was getting that sort of money I'd run till I fell.

I'm inclined to agree with that. Liverpool fans are said to be having multiple orgasms over this because of his legendary status at Annfield. He was a fantastic player, and then player/manager in his day, but never quite rose to the same heights as a manager. He didn't do bad, he won the double in 1986 and then the title in 88 and 90 and the FA cup in 89. Technically he was player/manager but very rarely played towards the later years mentioned. Who knows what he could have achieved if English clubs were not banned from Europe. I don't know if he will be that successful this time round but anything is better than the last few months.

H-T 2-1 F-T 4-1 ICT Rooney Elgin Crooks Crowd 3001

I saw this on gumtree and thought someone might be interested. Cally-private-plate-for-sale

Out of curiosity, what is your chosen profession Coggiebob?

HT: 0 - 0 FT: 1 - 2 1st scorer ICT: Rooney 1st scorer Opp: Parkin 1st Yellow Card: Tokely Crowd: 3501

HT:0-1 FT:2-1 1st scorer ICT: Rooney 1st scorer Opp: Eremenko 1st Yellow Card: Tokely Crowd:4001

HT:0-0 FT:1-2 1st scorer ICT:Rooney 1st scorer Opp:Higdon 1st Yellow Card:Tokely Crowd:4001

HT:1-0 FT:2-2 1st ICT: Rooney 1st OPP: Templeton Yellow card: Tokely Crowd: 12001

Where did i say that? My point is simply that aggressive policing can exacerbate the situation. It was a response to your suggestion of water canons and "a good kicking" as potential solutions to the problem. The article that i linked gives an idea of how angry aggressive policing can make peaceful protesters. Surely you accept that society benefits from having trained doctors, nurses, engineers and teachers? I would take it further and say that we all benefit from having artists, historians, theologians and sociologists - educated people in general. Grudgingly, i even accept the need for lawyers, economists and accountants. If these people end up earning significantly more than you then they will subsidise the roads you drive on under our system of progressive taxation. No man is an island and we have to pool money together in order to improve the lot of the population at large. I don't benefit from some stranger undergoing heart surgery on the NHS and i may never need to use that service myself but i certainly don't object to my taxes being used for that purpose. I applaud them for their efforts and lament that they didn't go far enough! The fact that the royal couple were out in central London in the middle of a large student protest is a testament to the stupidity of that pointless, inbred family. I was at the Laphroaig distillery recently and was informed that the Duke of Rothesay has a standing order for 6 bottles of 18 year-old every month at a cost of ?300 to the British taxpayer. If you want to get your knickers in a twist about wasting money than i suggest that he is a more suitable target for your ire than the students. You applaude them for their efforts and lament that they didn't go far enough? So you condone attacking a pair of old people (the fact they are royals is irrellevent) that are on a night out and that happened to get caught up in the middle of it? Well I hope you're proud of yourself. How far should they have gone to further their cause? Assaulted them? Murdered them? "Where do I say that?" Your first statement implies it. As you state you were at a peaceful protest that changed due to police tactics. Why do they have to adopt these tactics? Because the pondlife that are attacking them have given them no choice. What would you have the police do? How should they have handled it? Should they have stood there and let thugs throw bricks, fences, extinguishers at them and not batted an eyelid?

I have gone along to number of protests feeling calm and peaceful until i was confronted with the kind of police tactics described in this article. As for the cause, i think it is just. We have a system of progressive taxation in this country and that binds us as a society. By attempting to reduce everything to a service which involves payment on an individual basis, the government undermines that society. The argument that "not everyone uses university so why should everyone pay for it" just doesn't work. Aside from the obvious fact the country as a whole requires people to be educated to certain level in order to function, there are also range of different things we contribute to on a collective basis that not all of us use. We don't exist as individuals cut off from the rest of the world and we wouldn't survive as a species if we did. Stan,So it's all down to the police being heavy handed? Well silly me, I could have sworn it was a "student" who threw the extinguisher off the roof. I suppose the guy hitting the police with an iron bar had every right to act like this. What do you suggest the police do? Let the pondlife run riot smashing up shops and government buildings. Causing millions of pounds of damage should send the right message to the country. By all means protest but do it sensibly. As for the comment about everybody paying for Uni, why should I pay for some layabout to go to Uni? Will they pay for my road tax? When they are highly paid professionals will they repay me? No they won't. You get nothing for nothing and I had to work for what I have so why shouldn't they? While we are discussing this, what is your take on the "students" attacking the car of Prince Charles and his good lady? I suppose that was the police's fault as well. They were nothing to do with the "protest" and should not have been attacked like that.

Whilst I have every sympathy for the students having to pay a fortune back once they have reached a certain level of employment, I cannot help thinking that most of the idiots that I saw on the news throwing bricks, fences, etc won't have to worry about it. They will probably not even last the first year as they will more than likely be involved in some anti establishment "protest" and be booted out. I sat watching the riots and make no mistake that's what it was, a riot not a protest. I was screaming at the screen for the police to grab the "big" man with the iron bar, drag him through their lines and give him a good kicking. Now some will say that's wrong but so is what the thugs are doing to the police. They should not have to take the ***** they do off these pondlife. I realise that a lot of the offenders are not students, merely cretins that hi-jacked the protest but there were plenty of students happy enough to get involved. Protest peacefully to your heart's content but rioting is not and should never be condoned. The police should use the same measures that are used with footy hooligans. I'm sure if the water canons were turned on the thugs, they would soon get cold and go home. Anyway, that's just my opinion. No doubt there will be some that agree and some that don't but hey, that's what's great about this place. You can have a difference of opinion without the need for bricks and metal bars.

HT: 1-1 FT: 2-2 1st scorer ICT: Rooney 1st scorer Opp: Miller Crowd: 7001

You think the refs up here have got it bad. Try_this

Are you saying you are against strikes all together or just in this instance? If you mean all together (regardless of circumstance) then that is utterly ridiculous. And of course striking is holding people to ransom, there wouldn't be much point to it other wise, but it is nearly always a last resort. Also what do you think would have happened in this instance if the referees had just complained to the SFA and stuck within the 'chain of command' as you put it? I'm going with nothing, same as with most companies. Are you in the army by any chance? "that is utterly ridiculous" please elaborate. "there wouldn't be much point to it otherwise" so it's ok to cause chaos to possibly thousands of other people as long as you get what you want? "I'm going with nothing, same as with most companies" so you go to the next rung on the promotional ladder, this is why it is a chain of command. It doesn't stop at the first port of call. He has a boss who in turn has a boss. You get the idea. "Are you in the army by any chance?" I recently retired after 22 years in the army which I'm very proud of. Your point is? Too many people threaten to go on strike for the least little thing now days (No I'm not belittling the refs abuse).

I too gave you a red dot. You don't go to referee a game and expect to be showered with obscenities and threats of physical violence, or threats of and / or having your car vandalised, your family threatened, your windows smashed or hit with coins. This issue is about respect. Comparing it to someone joining the armed forces seems a bit abstract to me. People sign up to the armed forces in the knowledge that you might get injured. People sitting the 30 hour referee course, taking the exam and then going out to referee games on public parks is a completely different scenario entirely. The vast majority of people who are referees (not your ?800 a match ones) do it to help young players improve and help the club, youth development or school which they work with. The actions of certain people in the SPL does have an effect on youngsters playing the game. Pushy parents who think that their child is a great prospect act like a school / youth game is the champions league final. There's an inherent lack of respect which must be addressed here. Players don't barrage other players with criticism like this. Mangers don't do it to other managers. Chairmen don't do it to other chairmen. But it's ok for everyone to have a go at the referees? This is far bigger than what is happening at present and I support the cat 1s who are taking this action. There you go, isn't that much better than hiding behind a little red dot? Don't you feel as if you've got it out of your system now? As I have already stated, my post is my opinion, to which I am perfectly entitled as are you to yours. Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly. I am not comparing the forces to reffing. I am merely pointing out there are more high pressure jobs than reffing and giving the forces as an example. As for not signing up for abuse. In this day and age any ref that thinks he will not suffer from some sort of abuse is sadly misled. YES, I know it's wrong but so are a lot of things in all walks of life. It is at this point we make a decision. Get on with it or strike. Unfortunately I am against strikes, as all they seem to do is cause chaos and nobody wins really. I am a firm believer in talking it through and coming to an amicable outcome. Striking IN MY OPINION is merely holding people to ransom. In every company there is a chain of command, this is there for a purpose. The refs complain to whoever is the point of contact at the SFA. If nothing is done, go above his head and so on until the problem is sorted. There are procedures to deal with idiots that abuse refs at all levels. Wether it be on a Sunday morning under 10s match or the world cup final. If the abuse happens during a game, the ref puts it in his report and the SFA have to have the balls to do something about it as in bans, fines etc. If it is outwith, by morons in the street, report it to the police and let them deal with it. Last but by no means least, I do not condone abuse of any sort given to match officials. I merely think it should be dealt with in a different manner. If you wish to red dot this, no probs. I can assure you that I will not lose any sleep over it. Have a nice day.

Caley Stan/Kirishima, As I pointed out in my last post, you are of course entitled to your opinion and to express it by posting little red dots if you so wish. In my defence, I do believe it is relevent in that I was merely pointing out that there are more high pressure jobs than reffing. Jobs that cause people to be abused by others verbally and physically. For the most, these people get on with it and don't strike. So IN MY OPINION the refs should just get on with it. Yes, put in a complaint to the SFA but why cause so much inconvenience to others by causing games to be postponed? The defence rests. PS: Red dots do not bother one bit, I just like to have the chance to debate the subject instead of just having people hide behind a keyboard, so thank you for having the decency to reveal yourselves.

I now see why people don't like the red/green dot system. Could who ever red dotted me please explain which part of my post was to your dislike and why. Don't get me wrong. You are perfectly entitled to dis-agree with what I've posted but if you could be man enough to post your reasons then at least it would give me the same opportunity to agree or not with you. I might also be able to explain what ever it was so that you understand where I'm coming from. Thank you

While you are absolutely right about our service men and women and what must be unbelievable pressure, football shouldn't be compared to a war zone. It's a sport for goodness sake and there must be something far wrong with society when referees and their families can be terrorised in their own homes. For what? Having the audacity to make a mistake that some paranoid a*****le sees as part of a hidden agenda. The clowns at parkhead should hang their heads in shame. All they are doing is helping the morons feel justified in their paranoia. I wish they would all grow up. Shankly was wrong.... football is not more important than live and death. Oz , i take my hat off to you sir . Perhaps you could round up some of these morons and teach them what really is important in life and it sure as **** ain't football. Robbylad, Sorry if I came across wrong in the way I wrote my rant. I'm not comparing Football with a war zone merely pointing out that there are more high pressure jobs than reffing. It seems that people are all too quick in striking when something happens that they don't like. If we all did that the world would come to a stand still. Now don't get me wrong, the refs shouldn't be subjected to the **** they are and the morons that are guilty of the abuse should be taken care of by the FA or if need be the police. Having said that I've stood on the streets of Belfast and had people question my parentage, thrown rocks and petrol bombs at me and eventually been shot at. Unfortunately I couldn't go on strike and no I'm not looking for sympathy. You just get on with it. I think the problem is the mentallity of today, the compo culture. The way we think that if someone upsets you, you should be due something in return. On the flip side, if someone is found to be breaking the rules/law then they should be dealt with. Unfortunately because of the softly softly culture that has been adapted in Britain, nothing will happen because if it did the scroats would complain about their human rights being restricted. I have to stop now, I'm building up to going out and smacking some poor innocent person just for the hell of it.

I'm probably going to get some abuse for this but hey ho, I'll just go on strike. Referees get paid (anyone know how much for a top flight ref?) to do a job.If they do that job well they get promoted up to European, world cup games. If they do that job badly (Dougie) then they will get slated. They will get called all sorts of things, they will have their parentage questioned and even possibly get the odd hollow death threat. As far as I'm concerned, if that is as far as it goes so what, it's part of the job and at the end of the day sticks and stones etc. Try going to Afghanistan and doing your job badly, it won't be sticks and stones coming at you and you won't be able to go on strike either. I think that too many people in this day and age are too quick to start moaning and complaining about the way thay are treated. In the old days if a ref got some abuse off a player, manager, fan he would have given as good as he got. Unfortunately there are too many spoilt brats in the game (on all sides of the whistle) that can't take it. All this strike will do is alienate refs even more because it will inconvenience so many people that have booked trains, planes, buses, hotels etc. Man up and get on with it. PS: If the player, manager etc does go a bit over the top (Celtic) Then the SFA should be man enough to do something about it.

I forgot to post my prediction, can I do it now, I'll be honest. HT: 1-0 FT: 4-2 1st ICT: Foran 1st Opp: Riordan Crowd: 4217 How did I do?