cif73

1 hour ago, DoofersDad said:

Personally, I think it will be strategically good for some people to respond positively to the call to buy tickets and for others to hold back

The only thing I disagree with in an otherwise truly excellent post. I think the time has come for fans, who love the club, who genuinely want a club around still to support, to renew season tickets and buy merchandise again. 

The club has been and still is in an existential crisis. It should be fully appreciated that It had suffered losses in several millions ... millions ... before Morrison and Gardiner had even entered the stage. It had been propped up by a series of benefactors who generously committed to equity in the main more than debt. Any informed reader of the publicly available annual accounts can decipher that fairly easily. 

To withhold while Gardiner is working his notice is utter foolishness. He has made mistakes but in the immediate / short term, we desperately need someone available / on hand who has had a central working knowledge of the organisation to facilitate the changing of the guard/restructuring phase. 

I, for one, will not stand by inactive and watch my club die. 

Season ticket renewed.

5 hours ago, dougal said:

 

I still find it astonishing from what I can see anyway is that large number of fans who seem to welcome going down this route. 

 

Yes. Exactly. Astonishing.

ICT has been on a precipice for a long time (as many years' annual accounts plainly show) ... long before Gardiner ever came to Inverness. Rightly or wrongly, he has become a paria targeted by the suffering multitudes, thirsty for blood and looking for a scapegoat.

Look, I'm sure Gardiner has made mistakes but remember that the recent club sugar daddy fan and chair Morrison (while under the interrogation on the Wyness Shuffle podcast) remained adament that Gardiner brought valuable skills and knowledge to the table. With his boardroom position, Morrison had the inside take on what Gardiner has really been like and what he is capable of / responsible for. 

Generations of experienced, board members and directors have all been unable to financially make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Fanpower has very effectively got the reversal of Kelty and the chairman to fall on his sword.

However, chaos probably now ensues.

"Be careful what you wish for" is a phrase currently ringing in my ears.

Several months from now, it'll be interesting to see, with hindsight, whether the knock-on effects of this week's "fanpower" will be looked on with regret/remorse or vindicated enthusiasm.

20 minutes ago, Charles Bannerman said:

This club has never been able to come especially close to generating income to match its football expenditure and I can’t see how anyone could conceivably think otherwise. For several years after the near financial collapse of 1999, £5M from Tullochs kept it going but more recently that has given way to raising extra share capital (significantly almost £1M from Muirfield Mills) and cadging loans such as from Ross Morrison. Unfortunately, two attempts to raise income by non-football means - the Concert Company and the Battery Farm - have been catastrophic financial failures and the former (or possibly arguably both) also brought severe reputational damage.

Thank you for revealing that all-time losses come to £6.7M. I had only got as far as establishing £3.5M (more than half of that) within only the last six years, so it’s clear that the funding gulf is accelerating. I’ve made the ballpark estimate that, additional to initial stadium funding, ICT has cumulatively needed £10M of other people’s money to get to where it is today.

But if you think that’s a lot, I would also estimate that the corresponding figure for Ross County is around £20M and in the last 10 years alone £11.4M in loans from its parent company have been written off, so loss making seems to be accelerating there as well. The difference between the two clubs is that Roy MacGregor has been a far larger, more reliable and longer term source of “bailout cash” than ICT’s. In fact the scale and longevity of Roy’s support have been quite remarkable - although what happens when that eventually dries up is another matter.

As far as ICT is concerned, I’m struggling to see a sustainable way out of this…. but as sure as hell, decanting the first team to Fife sure isn’t among the options.

On that particular subject, judging by what random people I’ve had casual conversation with over the last week, I have been absolutely dismayed at the laughing stock that the club has now become in the public eye.

Thanks for the detailed response, Charles. The accumulated losses from the very start to date is something shown in every set of ICT company accounts submitted. It's a figure in plain sight near the bottom of the balance sheet. (So there's no need to trawl through every set of accounts to add all the years' losses together. It's done for you, so to speak). 

21 minutes ago, Stephen Riley said:

I was that fan who spoke on Sportsound today and if you don’t think that part of the problem is those ventures you are way off the mark!

The concert fiasco destroyed relationships with local businesses and some are still owed money! 
 

Those broken relationships have led to less money coming through the tills! Hospitality is nearly non existent now! Sponsor’s haven’t been contacted to renew deals and some have had free advertisement for over 3 years due to the club not picking up the phone. 
 

Yes it’s been going on for a long time and Ross is a fan but the club isn’t being ran properly! We just want a football team to support and be proud off!
 

We have had more communication around battery farms than we have had about any football matters last season! 

Thanks for the clarification, Stephen. That's helpful. OK, these will be factors affecting the current as well then, but I suspect the core financial issues run deeper still. By the way, I heard years ago (before Morrison) that sponsors hadn't been contacted for renewal of advertising boards. It's difficult to know what's rumour/gossip and truth when you're an outsider but I heard stuff like that from different sources. 

ICT's financial runaway train started long before the current incumbents. Up to 31 May 2022 (per company accounts on public record at Companies House which anyone can access/view free of charge), the accumulated losses incurred by ICT since formation total an eye-watering £6.7million. We have been a financial basketcase, living beyond our means for years, and years  and years. The only reason we have stayed alive this long is a series of benefactors (Morrison being the latest) ploughing huge amounts of their own money knowing they'll never see it again. I couldn't believe it when I heard an ICT fan-contributor on Sportsound today blame battery farms and concerts for our financial woes and saying that we had not lost money from football operations ... Off the scale inaccurate. 

3 hours ago, Naelifts said:

Totally agree with RIG. I realise the need for promotion but much prefer the vibe in the Championship. Rooneys celebration when scoring at Caley Stadium was muted and respectful I thought..............no need to keep that up for ever. From somewhere else......is Todorov a decent shout?

Yes I thought his celebration on Friday was low key and assumed it was out of some measure of respect for a former club. The boos he seemed to get last night with every touch of the ball may have encouraged him somewhat to let himself go a bit more. 

5 hours ago, Yngwie said:

Made myself sit through the highlights and yes, Chalmers totally loses his man and allows a free header. Great cross in though.

I decided to do that when I eventually got home as well. Yes, the poor defending didn't stop when Chalmers lost his man. If strikers are expected to "gamble" with a loose ball from the goalie (which May did so effectively), the defenders should show similar anticipation. Ball watching.

Nevertheless, tremendous effort from the lads. Despite the jammy deflected second goal (which effectively killed the game), St J were much more ruthless and deserved the win.

5 hours ago, tm4tj said:

Yes

Thanks for the response. I'm glad I posted the question. 

Does anyone know where Roddy MacGregor has gone? 

How about Ross Tokely ... a wee bit out of left field but ... has management/coaching  experience, has the club close to his heart and always talks intelligently and passionately in commentary. 

When we devalue our youth, we shoot ourselves in the foot. Below extract is from an article on Stuart Armstrong in Dundee's Courier today. Link to full article is below the quote. 

"When the family relocated from Inverness to the outskirts of Dundee, Campbell seized an opportunity that had fallen into his lap.

“I was at Inverness before I came to United,” he said. “I spoke to Scott Kellacher (in charge of the Caley Thistle academy) about us having a look at Stuart and I took an instant like to him. Basically, I asked his dad straight away if he’d like to join us at United.

“I’m not going to lie, I was a bit surprised that Inverness said we could have him for nothing. I thought it would be harder than that.”

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/dundee-united/1464488/dundee-united-stuart-armstrong-southampton-scotland/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

9 minutes ago, Robert said:

I’m not sure Doran is a leader on the park. We need someone vocal who can gee up the players and someone in a central defensive or midfield role is a better option in my opinion. I’d go with Welsh with Doran remaining as vice captain. 

I am a big fan of Welsh but, with his dreadful injury record, that choice would probably make Doran de facto captain. 

20 hours ago, caleyblue29 said:

no update on the new tops as yet and the week is nearly over , thought they were due out this week 

I also was wondering about the away tops .. that's the timescale in the CEO's statement last weekend for them.

On 6/13/2020 at 8:24 PM, Belfast Brigade said:

Many folk over here alway confuse my ICT shirt for Crystal Palace ones

That happened to me last week ... in Elgin 

Wonder if James Anderson regrets his hand-out to the clubs now.

He should have kept it for his club, Hearts.

I must say that my vocabulary is definitely broadening with these club statements .... farrago ... scintilla ... 

1 hour ago, RiG said:

I thought the person they were referring to was John Nelms at Dundee. Didn't even know the name of the Dunfermline Chairman before today.

The MD of the other club (vote comments) is of course Nelms of Dundee. We now know the SPFL board member is McArthur of Dunfermline. So our statement is referring to both. Sorry if this is stating the blinking obvious.

1 hour ago, gingerjaggy said:

The interesting thing goes back to Dundee? What have they been promised to change their vote because only a 16 team league would mean they gain promotion and I cant see that so what made them change course at the last minute?

Maybe the fact that, without Hearts, Dundee Utd and ICT, Dundee should be red hot favourites to get promoted next season. 

5 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

If Dundee's retraction and subsequent revised vote is accepted by the SPFL as legitimate, then surely it is open to any other club also to inform the SPFL to consider their vote as "not cast" and then subsequently submit a changed vote at any time within the 28 hours deadline

I've seen an extract of the SPFL rules on social media that say a No vote could be retracted but a Yes vote couldn't. 

As you've alluded in the rest of your post, one could drive a bus through the rules surrounding the vote and how that vote was then administered.

Only in Scottish football. 

5 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

If the increase in the number of clubs resulted in Rangers and Celtic playing each other less that 4 times a year, then not only would restructuring mean more clubs to share the money,  but there would probably be less money to share.  The amount of TV money is dependent on viewing figures and the harsh reality is that more people tune in to watch The Rangers play Celtic than ICT play Livingston.  

In reality I can't see all but one of the current Premiership sides voting for a significant increase in the size of the division although increasing it to 14 might actually work well.  If the split occurred after each team had played each other home and away (i.e. after 26 matches) then a top 6, bottom 8 split would allow each team to play the other teams in their sections once more both home and away.  This would mean that the top 6 would play a further 10 games for a total of 36 and the bottom 8 would play  a further 14 for a total of 40.  The beauty of this is that you avoid the somewhat unfair inevitability of the current system where some teams will play one or two teams 3 times away and only 1 at home and vice-versa.Splitting it 7:7 so that all play 38 games would also work but the 6:8 split means that there is less chance of problems with fixture congestion for the top teams who may be involved both in Europe and in the latter stages of the cup competitions.

If there is any chance of getting 11 of the Premiership sides to agree to this then surely it is now.  The Rangers have come out very strongly indeed that it is morally wrong to vote to relegate a club.  By rejecting an increase in the number in the Premiership, they would, in effect, be voting to relegate Hearts.  Of course, it is not beyond the realms of possibility the The Rangers would stab Hearts in the back but they would now be under huge moral pressure to support such a proposal.  The proposal would mean that no club was relegated following an incomplete season and that, surely is right and proper.

There is a real opportunity for some sanity to emerge from all this mess.  But this is the SPFL we are talking about and therefore I very much doubt that sanity will prevail. 

I can see a 6:8 working. I had also thought about the busier cup/European schedule that the bigger teams typically have and how it might help address that. The lack of home/away symmetry with 3 games against opponents pre-split is also a fair point. If they treated this structure as one-season only, then the bottom 8 leading to 3 relegated teams might make the post-split fixtures a less desperate free for all for survival. I suspect any reconstruction is unlikely to be for one season anyway given the upheaval. Here's hoping.

47 minutes ago, Robert said:

Partick beat us home and away.....

I saw both games and they were good for it.

Much more galling for them though is the fact that, in a highly competitive league, they were bottom by only 2 points with a game in hand. Their game in hand was because of their good run in the Tunnocks Caramel Wafer Challenge Cup. I think it would be a complete travesty if they were relegated.

35 minutes ago, IBM said:

The last time there was a vote was it not Aberdeen and Ross County that voted against?  Although Roy Macgregor is wanting everyone to work together I would not trust him!

It was Ross County and St Mirren that voted down reconstruction last time. 

2 hours ago, Huisdean said:

I hope I have to eat my words but simply cannot see reconstruction happening. Firstly, 11 out of 12 premiership clubs have to vote in favour and secondly the current premiership clubs need to give up sponsorship money to accommodate a bigger league. What Dundee hope to gain by changing their vote is simply beyond me.

I completely agree. ICT benefiting from reconstruction would be amazing. However I simply can't see it happening with a required 11-1 vote to carry it and TV money then being split between more clubs. The one immutable truth that can be drawn from last week's vote is money is everything to Scottish clubs, even sporting integrity can go hang when it comes to the crunch. 

On 3/28/2020 at 5:05 PM, Alan Simpson said:

Na bud started the 1st week of march so not sure if I'll be covered u no much about it I'm clueless 

You might be in luck. Because so many people changing jobs were falling through the gaps, they've changed the rules. Now, if your new employer told HMRC before 19th March that you had started with them, you could be furloughed.

Summary:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/furlough-scheme-cut-off-date-extended-to-19-march

Detailed guidance:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

Is Vincent injured? Not even on bench.