Scotty

I fall on this side of the argument too .... and have about 4 brief comments to make. 1. Prior to the installation of USH we had, I believe, ONE (or perhaps two) weather related call off(s). It certainly wasnt more. 2. The installation of USH definitely changed the drainage of the pitch, I remember hearing this back when it was first installed. I got a full technical roundup from Tommy and literally didnt understand a word but basically, looking back on that explanation, prior to pipes going in a lot of the surface had to be very heavily compacted and the porosity that was once there and allowed drainage was no longer as efficient. I think. 3. Definitely more trouble than its worth, "adequate pitch protection" should have been the term. I too believe it has caused more postponements than it has solved ! 4. Interested in Charles' comment about the 15 year old surface and perhaps there is some validity in the idea that the pitch itself, and the drainage below might also be affected by "old age".

http://blogs.soccernet.com/celtic/archives/2011/04/amateur_hour_as_ict_v_celtic_g.php really cannot say much about this article other than : TWAT !!!! Surprised ESPN associate with it, especially as all his other articles appear to be inflammatory too.

According to the Celtic website ....... Fans must come first !!!! http://www.celticfc.net/newsstory?item=891 The article is typical platitudes and spin, but I do agree with some of it. Totally agree. We think we are hard done by, but fans of the OF have even less chance to plan their footy for the year - most of their games are TV games and most are moved to weird times. I do have some sympathy for them but to Mr Lawwell I would say this ..... YOU decided that TV was more important than the fans and YOU can change that. Apart from the fact that Tommy will now boot your arse when he sees you, you are correct. There is indeedsomething wrong with our drainage. Its called the bullshit we had to go through to install under soil heating, a Premier League requirement that your mob had a hand in deciding upon. How many games were cancelled at the TCS because of the pitch itself PRIOR to under soil heating ? I believe it was ONE ! I rest my case. See answer above !!! Its because of the USH !!! If you let teams have 'adequate pitch protection' instead of the one-size fits all (or doesnt) golden goose that is USH then it would not be an issue. The TCS pitch was designed with a specific camber that not only supported wing play from the players but also allowed water to drain effectively and the proximity to the sea water also tended to prevent the worst of the elements from freezing it. Our pitch and its drainage was only ruined by following SPL rules ! [/rant over]

looking at the fixture list I came to that exact same conclusion. Wonder if we will be right ?

TFC captain, Dwayne DeRosario just traded to New York Red Bulls today for two players and a draft pick for next year. A couple of small snags in the paperwork to overcome but his time in Toronto appears to be at an end. The relationship between DeRo and the club obviously couldnt be repaired .... he did that whole 'cheque signing' act after a goal last year to indicate he wanted more money (as allegedly promised verbally by Mo Johnston), then he went to Celtic at Christmas without TFC's permission, then TFC would not let him sign for Celtic on loan until the start of the MLS season (as payback some have suggested), and just a couple of weeks ago he didnt deny he might go on a one-man strike !!! 2 years left on his contract but he wanted to renegotiate, but was never going to get what he asked for which would have been a 500% wage rise !!!!!

Tommy Cumming surely ?

O.T. apologies that your earlier post got deleted jamie .... as you posted the same thing multiple times, I think multiple moderators must have deleted all the duplicates at the same time and all of the posts disappeared. Its not a clampdown though Jamie, its an application of the rules that are actually in place !!!! If you go to a game and behave within the actual rules, there is (usually) nothing to fear. If you can bend them at certain grounds and not cause hassle for yourselves or antagonise the stewards then fair enough, but you know as well as I do that many stewards are very officious and if you get in their face, there will only be one winner and normally it wont be the fans .... thats really what this thread was intended for ... a heads up to consider obeying or even pulling back a little and bending them but stopping short of breaking them and then causing bother/antagonism when confronted about it .... As I said before ...... Until or unless the rules about standing change, then how the rules are applied, and who they are applied to matters not a jot. Frustrating as **** I agree, but at the root of it, it's the rule thats causing the issue, and the application of the rule, or in some cases the non-application of it that is causing the frustration. Lobby to have the rule changed rather than all out confrontation and the outcome might just be better !

Finland's next game isnt until June so some speculation that he may stick around until the end of season....

Until the rules change and standing is allowed, you are right, that argument cannot be won. The stewards are either doing their job and applying the rules that are in place in which case people will be hassled to sit down, or they are ignoring/turning a blind eye to them and letting fans off with standing and therefore being more lenient than they should. In either event, you cannot really argue against them applying the rules, the argument is to get the rules changed. The fact that particular groups of stewards are inconsistent, rude and/or arrogant in how they apply those rules or who they apply them to is irrelevant (in this argument at least). Going back to CaleyD's original post - as he said, this is not a thread designed to really debate standing/sitting or the behaviour of stewards ... it was more a heads up about something that came to his attention and which may affect certain fans if they continue to engage in certain behaviour. They know who they are I would assume, and they can choose to take note of the information or ignore it ... but they cannot say they werent warned ....

Yes he is Swiss, and I still maintain that he could play for a "biggish" UK or European club ... if they took an interest. I base that on seeing his performances week in and week out. He may not have played internationally beyond youth level, but when he came to TFC he basically took the #1 spot away from Canadian International goalkeeper Greg Sutton, who eventually left the club for New York Red Bulls so he could get a game. He's not going to attract Man Utd, Barcelona or other huge club interest but he is a very capable keeper who has excellent reflexes and shot stopping ability. I would certainly put him above the likes of Mark Brown on his day but it would be unfair of me to compare him to Esson as I watch Frei's performances regularly but just listen or read about Esson's or see the odd feed. Having said that ... he seems happy at TFC, and if no-one ever comes in for him, then TFC fans will be happy to see him there for a long time to come.

I agree that stewarding can be heavy handed, and from reading those same forums, that its not restricted to just ICT fans at Tannadice. However, the comment has been made that its not the first report about ICT fans this season, so its not just Tannadice. That was followed by comments from some of our own that it possibly seems to be the same group of younger fans at more than 1 away day ..... so lets not kid ourselves and blame the stewards whilst canonising the ICT fans ... yes the stewards can be pr!cks (see St Mirren in the dictionary), but its not a trait they have exclusivity on and fans can be just as out of order !

But it's cool to be ejected .... No ?

Any or all of the above. If a fan encroaches the pitch it will be included in the referees report as would any abuse towards players or officials. However, based on what CaleyD posted, it sounds more likely that in the post game debrief that each club holds between the stewards/police/club this has been raised and reported to the SPL. The debrief at the end of each game lists pretty much everything that happens at a game from about an hour beforehand until well after. It can be mundane things like a turnstile not working, discovery of a broken seat (not necessarily vandalised), people being turned away for being drunk or not in possesion of a valid ticket for all ticket matches, all sorts of things but also includes arrests, ejections and other more serious things. If the reports get to the SPL and they are collating them, then what might seem like isolated incidents at a number of away grounds soon starts to look like a pattern ......... Not preaching to anyone about behaviour, thats your own decision, and your own risk, but as we have said to people on here who have previously tried to push the boundaries of the site .... be aware that your actions have consequences and be prepared for them ... glad someone raised this to CaleyD and thought enough about the fans to give them a heads up ... it gives them an opportunity to self-police or self-moderate and stay out of trouble as they follow ICT !

Frei is an excellent keeper ... I am extremely surprised he hasnt been snapped up by a biggish European/UK team yet ! He has got to be worth an extra 10pts a year for TFC. His kicking isnt always great but reflex saves are top notch.

yup, MLS is facing an uphill battle against NFL, NBA, MLB and even NHL (esp in Canada) for viewership but it will tick over. The league itself is strong and surprisingly well managed and they seem to be choosing new teams that will actually add something to the mix ... Toronto basically made it a shoe-in for Vancover getting in this year and Montreal next year and the success (crowds wise) of Seattle made it easier for Portland. Only two teams in MLS actually made a profit last year .... Toronto and Seattle ! Others are close but DP wages cleared away any profit (LA /NY for example with Beckham and Henry) and yet more of the older teams are in markets that are not very football friendly and they struggle along with considerably lower crowds. After Montreal next year, I believe the hope is to get another team in New York which is a sizeable market and they are also trying to see if something can be done in Florida as they know there is a huge community with Latin roots who love their footy.

No disrespect to ICT, but DeRo would not have gone there, his ego would not have allowed it !!! ICT would not have been a big enough team for him in his mind. As you say he might consider Celtic though ..... and he did try to engineer a move there over Christmas. Personally, ego or not, I think he would have lit up the SPL in the same way as someone like Lubomir Moravcik did ... he is an excellent an skillful player, but for me, he is too much "ME"-Ro than DeRo over the last few months. The other barrier would be wages. He is currently on the league maximum wage for a non designated player (but looking to get more). So that is US$375,000 per year which with guaranteed bonuses meant his salary last year ended up at $443,750 (all MLS wage figures are public - just look up MLS salaries on google). Thats about ?277,000 in UK money or ?5400 per week. He is not happy at that level and wants the same wage as Julian DeGuzman who is Toronto's DP and is on $1,717,546 a year or just over a million in UK money ... thats 20 grand a week in pounds ! Celtic supposedly offered him about 12 grand but TFC turned down the potential loan deal.

Yup, one bounce and bang - but what a bang ! he took it well. Toronto is about 2.5m, peraps double that for the "GTA" (greater Toronto area) .... this was the first home opener which didnt reach capacity but attendances are pretty healthy. The club restrict season tickts to 16,000 (or something like that) and have a waiting list for new season ticket holders. Th rest of the tickets are for "game day sales" (ie. more expensive tickets) or for away fans. Saturday was bloody cold !!! Normally it should be +7 or +10 at this time of year but we had a freak snowstorm on the Wednesday, and the cold weather hung around ... it was about -10 for the game. The result made us warmer though ! Another home game this weekend, think it is forecast to be around the freezing mark again ... but this time no snow, but perhaps rain ! Could work to our advantage as Chivas (who play in same stadium as LA Galaxy) may not like the northern cold !

announced crowd was just over 20,000 .... real crowd, I would guess, was closer to 18K. It was a good game but a 'seasoned' MLS team would have ripped TFC apart. The Timbers are not as good as Vancouver I dont think and former Rangers man John Spencer, manager of the Timbers will have his work cut out this year. Courtesy of new head coach Aron Winter, TFC are trying to play the Ajax style of "total football" in a 4-3-3 formation. There were glimpses of brilliance during the game, but too often the players were kind of looking round to see what they were supposed to be doing and where they were supposed to be positioned .... a typical, physical, direct MLS team will punch holes through TFC with consumate ease until the system starts sitting better with the players .... it was also ironic that what is probably one of the best goals scored at BMO field was pure route 1 football ......... PS - just like SPL, the ref was an erse too !!!!! Scarlet - you may be interested in CTO's transatlantic sister site ..... http://tfcpics.com/ I have taken upwards of 7200 pics at TFC home games over the last 4 seasons so just throw them up in a gallery .... some are good, some are crap, some are uploaded by other friends ... but the principle of the site is that we are all just amateurs ... 'fans first ... fotografers second'. We just started adding some stats too .....

Full game in 6 minutes ..... <br /><br /> <object width="480" height="301" id="embed" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000"><param name="movie" value="http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/embed.swf"'>http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/embed.swf" /><param name="quality" value="high" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="flashVars" value="catid=2&id=2907&server=http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/&pageurl=http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/&nlwa=http://track1.neulion.com/tfc/" /><embed name="embed" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer" src="http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/embed.swf"'>http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/embed.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="301" quality="high" allowFullScreen="true" flashVars="catid=2&id=2907&server=http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/&pageurl=http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/&nlwa=http://track1.neulion.com/tfc/"></embed></object>

now that MLS season is upon us, I think I will start a thread about the team I go to watch because I cant be at the TCS !!! We will skip over week 1, where TFC lost badly to Vancouver ... and move to last weekend where it was a nice 2-0 victory over Portland. Its gonna take time for the parts to gel, but here is an excellent goal I had the privilege to see in the flesh ..... <br /><br /> <object width="480" height="301" id="embed" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000"><param name="movie" value="http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/embed.swf"'>http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/embed.swf" /><param name="quality" value="high" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="flashVars" value="catid=2&id=2906&server=http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/&pageurl=http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/&nlwa=http://track1.neulion.com/tfc/" /><embed name="embed" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer" src="http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/embed.swf"'>http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/embed.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="301" quality="high" allowFullScreen="true" flashVars="catid=2&id=2906&server=http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/&pageurl=http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/&nlwa=http://track1.neulion.com/tfc/"></embed></object>

nothing more that can really be added here other than my own well wishes for a tremendous servant to the ICT cause.

The OF seem to be permeating this thread just like they do Scottish football in general ... so just re-iterating the original poster's actual question ....... lets keep this an OF free zone

Wonder where the lay-by of choice is in Peterhead ?

In terms of UK teams, I cant say there are any I really hate ..... There are some who I have a soft spot for for various reasons, but the rest really become irrelevant to me rather than hated. -- Soft Spot -- Queen of the South (used to get good craic with their fans in Inverness and Dumfries) Newcastle (got a few Geordie mates) Wolves (not sure why, just always liked them for some reason, even in lower divisions) Wimbledon (my late uncle owned a house in Wimbledon) Arsenal (used to go to Highbury when I lived in London) thats about it really ....... everyone else (except ICT & TFC) are irrelevant !

Toronto have never beaten them in 11 attempts !!! 5 losses, 6 draws. They are our nearest rivals in terms of geography (315 miles away), and their local police - who are not used to large crowds [Columbus is relatively small] - tasered a few TFC fans when went there a couple of seasons ago in numbers (about 2500 of a travelling support). Added to that they had Steven Lenhart playing for them until the start of this season and he is a player that TFC fans love to hate for some reason ...... I am sure the dislike for them will decrease when Montreal enter MLS next year as they will no doubt be top of our s***list !